Cathay or Dragonair?
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Cathay or Dragonair?
What is the general consensus with regards to which company is better to work for? Taking into account lifestyle, pay, roster, management etc. Any and all info appreciated!
Join Date: Jun 2014
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They are very different beasts. Your experience will vary and prepare for some responses that are as subjective as they are passionate.
In my opinion...
Better for the body clock: KA
Better for overnights: CX
Home the family more often: KA
Home with the family for more days in a row: CX
Time to command: KA squared
Salary short to mid term (15-20yrs): KA
Salary long term: CX
Cockpit culture/atmosphere: KA
Gravitas internationally: CX
Annual leave: KA
Control over roster: CX
Etc, etc, etc
In my opinion...
Better for the body clock: KA
Better for overnights: CX
Home the family more often: KA
Home with the family for more days in a row: CX
Time to command: KA squared
Salary short to mid term (15-20yrs): KA
Salary long term: CX
Cockpit culture/atmosphere: KA
Gravitas internationally: CX
Annual leave: KA
Control over roster: CX
Etc, etc, etc
Join Date: Dec 2010
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It depends.
Do you prefer bouncing around some of the worst airspace in the World and spending half your time in some of the worst pollution in the World on a forever worsening contract, or ruining your body flying ultra long haul on a forever worsening contract?
Do you prefer bouncing around some of the worst airspace in the World and spending half your time in some of the worst pollution in the World on a forever worsening contract, or ruining your body flying ultra long haul on a forever worsening contract?
Join Date: Apr 2015
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I have been a PPRuNe reader since joining my current job some years ago and even in the lead up to interviews (yes, I was rightly warned), I had only ever been on the sideline. Funny thing is that I haven't been that interested in signing up until now.. Right up until 'coldastone17' made his last statement with clapping hands (please tell me that was a wind up!!)
If not, then here goes..
PPRuNe is full of grumpy old captains and FO's. Many whom I have shared meals and drinks with at outports who are decent fellas (just quite frustrated and like spending time on computers). Anyway, to MC's question.. here is my opinion
For those guys who are happy with their pay and their contract (biz jet guys aside) I challenge you to speak up as I have done here..
'Coldastone17'.. these guys here are fed up (as we all are) with our company treating us like pests. Most of these guys are A or B scalers getting paid LOTS in housing. These are the guys who are now trapped by the seniority system and are chasing the dangling carrot of command on the good fleet, or for those already there, a base in their home country.
THESE PILOTS ARE DEEP IN AND MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LEAVE THE COMPANY!!
NOW, this is where it gets interesting.. Almost everybody around my time of joining (circa 5-6 years), CAN afford to leave. We can't afford to pay the 40% deposit on an HKD$8,000,000 property that is 650ft2. We can't have the luxuries of the western world like a car or a boat or a lounge to breakdance in. There is ZERO chance to get ahead on the current package in Hong Kong.
We can afford to rent some less than desirable place sure, but do you really want to rent until you are 65? With no basings on offer, it looks like you will be in Hong Kong forever. Are you happy bringing up a family in such a place with the HUGE cost associated with schooling etc (not to mention the clearly visible pollution and the general lack of good quality food at respectable prices).
The Hong Kong Pilot Allowance for the first four years will not cover suitable accommodation and it has not been adjusted for general inflation (not to mention property inflation). After 4.5 years (average) it will go up $4k, but again it is not adjusted and you simply can-not make do (unless you are 18, straight out of highschool, zero debt, no girlfriend, no bad habits etc).
Long story short.. my contract and my lifestyle is declining with every update I get from the company. My union works hard and I am very appreciative of that, but there is only so much you can do against a bully (short of getting into serious industrial action).
So I rambled a bit there MC, but you get the idea.. Good luck with your decisions!
If not, then here goes..
PPRuNe is full of grumpy old captains and FO's. Many whom I have shared meals and drinks with at outports who are decent fellas (just quite frustrated and like spending time on computers). Anyway, to MC's question.. here is my opinion
For those guys who are happy with their pay and their contract (biz jet guys aside) I challenge you to speak up as I have done here..
'Coldastone17'.. these guys here are fed up (as we all are) with our company treating us like pests. Most of these guys are A or B scalers getting paid LOTS in housing. These are the guys who are now trapped by the seniority system and are chasing the dangling carrot of command on the good fleet, or for those already there, a base in their home country.
THESE PILOTS ARE DEEP IN AND MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LEAVE THE COMPANY!!
NOW, this is where it gets interesting.. Almost everybody around my time of joining (circa 5-6 years), CAN afford to leave. We can't afford to pay the 40% deposit on an HKD$8,000,000 property that is 650ft2. We can't have the luxuries of the western world like a car or a boat or a lounge to breakdance in. There is ZERO chance to get ahead on the current package in Hong Kong.
We can afford to rent some less than desirable place sure, but do you really want to rent until you are 65? With no basings on offer, it looks like you will be in Hong Kong forever. Are you happy bringing up a family in such a place with the HUGE cost associated with schooling etc (not to mention the clearly visible pollution and the general lack of good quality food at respectable prices).
The Hong Kong Pilot Allowance for the first four years will not cover suitable accommodation and it has not been adjusted for general inflation (not to mention property inflation). After 4.5 years (average) it will go up $4k, but again it is not adjusted and you simply can-not make do (unless you are 18, straight out of highschool, zero debt, no girlfriend, no bad habits etc).
Long story short.. my contract and my lifestyle is declining with every update I get from the company. My union works hard and I am very appreciative of that, but there is only so much you can do against a bully (short of getting into serious industrial action).
So I rambled a bit there MC, but you get the idea.. Good luck with your decisions!
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Thank you for the replies,
So it seems like if you were a debt free single guy it's not so terrible? I should add a debt free single guy coming from an ultra ****ty low cost airline....
So it seems like if you were a debt free single guy it's not so terrible? I should add a debt free single guy coming from an ultra ****ty low cost airline....
Join Date: Aug 2008
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HOPE!?! That never-ending well of ignorance and stupidity.
Mark C, if that's what you took away from those replies, there is no HOPE for you. Just join up and get miserable with the rest of us, but you won't be able to claim you were not warned. Looks like the world's economy is headed back into the chamber pot, so your timing might be just right.
Sounds like you fly the A320. If so, I bet that A350 SO job is looking quite juicy. Yep, we call that SJS or shiny jet syndrome. It's the same one that probably got you into your current circumstances. Don't worry though, CX will totally ignore your experience and have you "fly" freighters to ANC for the next four years. If that doesn't piss you off, all the DEFOs (direct entry FOs) who skip the line ahead of you in the USA are surely going to. Happy trails...
Mark C, if that's what you took away from those replies, there is no HOPE for you. Just join up and get miserable with the rest of us, but you won't be able to claim you were not warned. Looks like the world's economy is headed back into the chamber pot, so your timing might be just right.
Sounds like you fly the A320. If so, I bet that A350 SO job is looking quite juicy. Yep, we call that SJS or shiny jet syndrome. It's the same one that probably got you into your current circumstances. Don't worry though, CX will totally ignore your experience and have you "fly" freighters to ANC for the next four years. If that doesn't piss you off, all the DEFOs (direct entry FOs) who skip the line ahead of you in the USA are surely going to. Happy trails...
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Except for guys like Weeklywrapup, you won't really find honest answers to your question.
The reason is that a lot of guys bizarly believe that if they can diminish the number of applicants ( they cannot) this puts them somehow in a better position to improve/ keep their own B scale package.That is why whenever somebody like you pops up in these forums they get these extreme negative opinions. The fact that conditions are indeed under threat and management continously tries to squeeze out more doesn't help if course.
I think weekly is right in general, however most importantly is of course where you are now and if it would be an improvement or a step back for YOU.
There is no alternative but to see for yourself, take the time to visit the place, look at the accomodation etc , then compare with alternatives like EK etc.
The reason is that a lot of guys bizarly believe that if they can diminish the number of applicants ( they cannot) this puts them somehow in a better position to improve/ keep their own B scale package.That is why whenever somebody like you pops up in these forums they get these extreme negative opinions. The fact that conditions are indeed under threat and management continously tries to squeeze out more doesn't help if course.
I think weekly is right in general, however most importantly is of course where you are now and if it would be an improvement or a step back for YOU.
There is no alternative but to see for yourself, take the time to visit the place, look at the accomodation etc , then compare with alternatives like EK etc.
Join Date: Jul 1998
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Weeklywrapup is spot on. Dont expect what it used to be. Dont expect the lies to be fulfilled. Dont expect anything but an aggressive divide and conquer, leverage & bully employer. Dont expect to be able to afford a family. The current package IS unsustainable and bases are simply unachievable, Ever, so dont believe those lies. You get an upgrade to JFO, you have juniority - and a very big list. If & when you get promoted, you have juniority - and a very big list. Until recently and a few dribbled uk bases and like five US bases with caveats, there've been NO bases offered for 5 years and two bases agressively closed.
Hong Kong is a Very expensive place to live and hard to enjoy without disposable cash and roster stability / predictability / control. They want ALL the control and that's no fun. They recently gave notice to cancel the Pilot Duty Agreement / Rostering Practices because they can't / Won't negotiate anything. Anything.... They are greedy bullies. Dont come here without being informed... The Big Shiny Jet needs so much polish on it that it probably doesnt matter coz the sun don't shine here, not through the pollution.
Hong Kong is a Very expensive place to live and hard to enjoy without disposable cash and roster stability / predictability / control. They want ALL the control and that's no fun. They recently gave notice to cancel the Pilot Duty Agreement / Rostering Practices because they can't / Won't negotiate anything. Anything.... They are greedy bullies. Dont come here without being informed... The Big Shiny Jet needs so much polish on it that it probably doesnt matter coz the sun don't shine here, not through the pollution.
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I should have mentioned 1/ I don't really give a **** what aircraft type I fly (definitely do NOT have "shiny jet syndrome") 2/ Given my personal circumstances (single), I see HK as an attractive place to live (familiar with the city, region & low tax rate) and 3/ Once again, I do work for a crappy low cost airline (not a320, actually 737ng, might narrow it down a bit.)
Any KA perspective on things?
Any KA perspective on things?
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Mark, you have to ask yourself. Where will you go next?
Unless you're really planning on remaining single and debt free for the rest of your life. 25,000HKD/month for a 400sqf flat in Central.
Think about: retirement (no pension, so you will have to be able to save money), China taking over Hong Kong and Air China taking over CX and KA in the long term.
CX and KA are only a stepping stone for most guys nowadays.
Living in Europe, I suggest you have a look at the majors over there earlier than later.
Unless you're really planning on remaining single and debt free for the rest of your life. 25,000HKD/month for a 400sqf flat in Central.
Think about: retirement (no pension, so you will have to be able to save money), China taking over Hong Kong and Air China taking over CX and KA in the long term.
CX and KA are only a stepping stone for most guys nowadays.
Living in Europe, I suggest you have a look at the majors over there earlier than later.
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Sometimes I fail to understand all the negative press.
I don't see the problem in joining cx in your early 20's and getting an f/o upgrade after 5 or so years. Then you're free to leave with experience on a wide body jet as a first officer.
Whats the problem?
I don't see the problem in joining cx in your early 20's and getting an f/o upgrade after 5 or so years. Then you're free to leave with experience on a wide body jet as a first officer.
Whats the problem?
