EMIRATES PROFIT SHARING ?
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Not confirmed but Sheikh Wally Bin Wally, Sheikh ya Booty Bin Wally and Sheikh bin Mahmood Bin Mahmood believed to have pocketed 33.3% each. The remaining recurring decimal point will be donated to a charity presided over by Sheikh Rattle and Roll.
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Amen brother (sorry, couldn't resist!!). Seriously, can everyone please just proof read their comments before hitting 'send'...??? 
(and it's a miracle, I completely agree with CR for the first time!). 
(and it's a miracle, I completely agree with CR for the first time!).
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Froggy et al,
Sorry, I cannot resist.
Let's say CX operated 3 x A380 + 1 744F to LHR per day instead of 5 x 777-300ER. That is approximately an equal amount of lift. Right? 1500 seats and 100T cargo.
Would CX make more revenue? I don't know, but they would certainly spend more in fuel getting it from A to B. I think that might just have an impact on profit, but I have been away from my economics classes for some time now. This to write nothing of lost flexibility to the airline in the event of a downturn. On the plus side, the A380 would certainly help solve the current crewing problems. Yes, the same crewing problems the Company says do not exist.
Sorry, I cannot resist.
Let's say CX operated 3 x A380 + 1 744F to LHR per day instead of 5 x 777-300ER. That is approximately an equal amount of lift. Right? 1500 seats and 100T cargo.
Would CX make more revenue? I don't know, but they would certainly spend more in fuel getting it from A to B. I think that might just have an impact on profit, but I have been away from my economics classes for some time now. This to write nothing of lost flexibility to the airline in the event of a downturn. On the plus side, the A380 would certainly help solve the current crewing problems. Yes, the same crewing problems the Company says do not exist.
How many CX 777-300ER are operated to LHR with 300 seats ?
Why no cargo on the A380 ? On a 12 hr trip the 777-300ER will take more cargo, beyond that the A380 carries more cargo. It is not zero cargo however.
There are more popular and less popular slot times, CX it turning away revenue at the more popular slot times.
EK seems to be making money hand over fist still where they have replaced 777-300ER with A380s on routes across their network. EK say the cost per seat on the A380s is around 15-20% less than the 777-300ER, depending on how the A380 and 777-300ER is configured. That is why they have been asking for an updated engine package for the A380 to beat the 777X on a cost per seat basis by a similar margin.
9 weeks profit share to employees, plus 750 million dividend payment to shareholders. A bit different to the CX half day profit share and 170 million dividend payment.
Why no cargo on the A380 ? On a 12 hr trip the 777-300ER will take more cargo, beyond that the A380 carries more cargo. It is not zero cargo however.
There are more popular and less popular slot times, CX it turning away revenue at the more popular slot times.
EK seems to be making money hand over fist still where they have replaced 777-300ER with A380s on routes across their network. EK say the cost per seat on the A380s is around 15-20% less than the 777-300ER, depending on how the A380 and 777-300ER is configured. That is why they have been asking for an updated engine package for the A380 to beat the 777X on a cost per seat basis by a similar margin.
9 weeks profit share to employees, plus 750 million dividend payment to shareholders. A bit different to the CX half day profit share and 170 million dividend payment.
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...not to mention a proper housing package, no tax, cheap transportation, much quicker time to command and hosties you can actually speak to and have some fun with. Yup, I can see why everyone would rather have a frustrating and unfulfilling career with CX.
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Swh,
No argument on the profit share. CX is a joke. I hear EK had to have a big payout to retain pilots. Wish that were true in HKG. Housing is the last handcuff, and it is gradually going away.
My sources at LH say 747-8I is within 2-3% of A380 on seat costs, which is more than made up for with extra cargo volume. I know the 77W is very close to the Intercontinental on seat costs. So I think that 15-20% seat advantage is quite inflated.
Wrt CX 77W seats, I'm not sure. I believe it has lost numbers to PEY seating. That's up to the airlines. I know AC operates 77W in high density configuration over 450 seats. Not the point. My point is 5 77W is about the same floorspace and cargo capacity as 3 A380 and a -400F, although the former gives more frequency options and flexibility in downturns.
You can't argue the trends. Nobody outside the ME3 is ordering more A380s. Maybe Turkish buys some, maybe not. Non-ME3 orders on the books are tentative at best. Meanwhile, big twins (777, A350, 787) are being ordered by the hundreds. The verdict is in, and it's not a good one for VLAs. Engine improvements might keep the A380 on life support for a while longer, but it won't change the industry trend over the long haul.
No argument on the profit share. CX is a joke. I hear EK had to have a big payout to retain pilots. Wish that were true in HKG. Housing is the last handcuff, and it is gradually going away.
My sources at LH say 747-8I is within 2-3% of A380 on seat costs, which is more than made up for with extra cargo volume. I know the 77W is very close to the Intercontinental on seat costs. So I think that 15-20% seat advantage is quite inflated.
Wrt CX 77W seats, I'm not sure. I believe it has lost numbers to PEY seating. That's up to the airlines. I know AC operates 77W in high density configuration over 450 seats. Not the point. My point is 5 77W is about the same floorspace and cargo capacity as 3 A380 and a -400F, although the former gives more frequency options and flexibility in downturns.
You can't argue the trends. Nobody outside the ME3 is ordering more A380s. Maybe Turkish buys some, maybe not. Non-ME3 orders on the books are tentative at best. Meanwhile, big twins (777, A350, 787) are being ordered by the hundreds. The verdict is in, and it's not a good one for VLAs. Engine improvements might keep the A380 on life support for a while longer, but it won't change the industry trend over the long haul.
cxorist,
Your sources have always been a joke.
You don't know that Cathay has 275 seats on the 4 class 777-300ER, and sprout numbers about other airlines you don't work for like fact.
There is a 186 seat difference between the Lufthansa 526 seat A380 and their 340 seat 747-8i. On average their 747-8i have 363 seats, and their A380s 508 seats. An average difference of a 145 seats, more than what they carry in a 737 or A319.
Emirates on average have 357 seats on their long haul 777-300ERs (those with first class), and 503 seats on their A380s.
Lufthansa has 5 more seats on their A380s than Emirates has on theirs, and Lufthansa has on average 6 more seats on their 747-8is than Emirates has on their 777-300ERs. How many more tonnes per hours for 6 seats ? You claim the 747-8i is on par with the 777-300ER.
No way in the world is there a 2-3% seat delta at Lufthansa, their 747-8is would probably have a 5-10% higher cost per seat than Emirates has on their 777-300ERs.
Remember how you were saying an A380 did not have the range for North America, Emirates on a daily basis fly routes with the A380 longer than HKG-JFK, or needed massive fuel buildups to fly Hong Kong to Europe as there were no alternates ? Yet how many airlines have operated from Asia to a Europe ?
Your sources have always been a joke.
You don't know that Cathay has 275 seats on the 4 class 777-300ER, and sprout numbers about other airlines you don't work for like fact.
There is a 186 seat difference between the Lufthansa 526 seat A380 and their 340 seat 747-8i. On average their 747-8i have 363 seats, and their A380s 508 seats. An average difference of a 145 seats, more than what they carry in a 737 or A319.
Emirates on average have 357 seats on their long haul 777-300ERs (those with first class), and 503 seats on their A380s.
Lufthansa has 5 more seats on their A380s than Emirates has on theirs, and Lufthansa has on average 6 more seats on their 747-8is than Emirates has on their 777-300ERs. How many more tonnes per hours for 6 seats ? You claim the 747-8i is on par with the 777-300ER.
No way in the world is there a 2-3% seat delta at Lufthansa, their 747-8is would probably have a 5-10% higher cost per seat than Emirates has on their 777-300ERs.
Remember how you were saying an A380 did not have the range for North America, Emirates on a daily basis fly routes with the A380 longer than HKG-JFK, or needed massive fuel buildups to fly Hong Kong to Europe as there were no alternates ? Yet how many airlines have operated from Asia to a Europe ?
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Ok let's put it this way...EK has an order of 150 A380 because they want to waste money and make a loss!
They have a profit margin of 5.1%, twice what CX is achieving only because they have 777's.:
Obviously the leadership at EK are clueless!
They have been outperforming CX constantly over the last few years both in profit and in product.
Sorry Boeing fanatics...the 747-8 passenger version is dead in the water...I'm sure you have figured it out by now!
They have a profit margin of 5.1%, twice what CX is achieving only because they have 777's.:
Obviously the leadership at EK are clueless!
They have been outperforming CX constantly over the last few years both in profit and in product.
Sorry Boeing fanatics...the 747-8 passenger version is dead in the water...I'm sure you have figured it out by now!
CX's problem is not that of A380/747-8 vs 777, or lack of runways at CLK. It is HKG's airspace; difficult on the best of days, and in the event of widespread convective disturbances, a shambles. Over the next few Asian summers, HKG may soon become untenable as a viable hub.
There is no point ordering A380s or building more runways until the airspace is sorted out. And I am not optimistic of that happening over the remainder of my airline flying career.
There is no point ordering A380s or building more runways until the airspace is sorted out. And I am not optimistic of that happening over the remainder of my airline flying career.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 9th May 2015 at 09:47.
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The truth of the matter is that CX is beginning a slow and inexorable decline. They have never really been 'well' managed. They have succeeded only because of their privileged position in HK, basically a monopoly, that is now being unwound by the government and the pressure of competitors like Emirates. Instead of focusing on growth and product, they are institutionally blinded by a need to 'manage', and spend all their effort and energy on waging war on the very employees that have basically allowed the airline to function as well as it has over the past decades. Now, the dysfunction at the top has caused those same employees to actively work against the airlines long term interests, resulting in the airline stagnating at just the point in history where it most needs all areas of the operation to be functioning as an efficient and productive machine. On top of that, the always present fallacy of building an airport at CLK is becoming apparent, as it can never provide the operational flexibility needed. Even a third runway is pointless, as it too will be at capacity the day it opens. Meanwhile, Emirates and all the other Gulf carriers will be operating from ever expanding modern airports, with better aircraft and a much better product (who really believes our 'first' class is anything compared to Emirates first class product on the 380?). Our management should be focusing on making sure we are expanding to all the markets that we can make money in, and not worrying about the incremental cost of employing competent and experienced aircrew. Soon, many of us are going to wake up to the fact that the only viable career (one where you can afford to be married, have children and put money away for retirement) will be with the dominant Gulf carriers. That is probably the story for the next 20-30 years, until the next sea-change of revolution takes place in the industry. CX had it's time from the 80's through to the 2010's. They probably can't survive with the myopic and incestuous Swire mindset still fighting their 18th century 'mill owner' battles against their employees instead of realising that their real danger is growing at twice their rate, with better hubs, better aircraft, better regulators and better management. Nine weeks profit share....sounds like they at least want to find a way to show their employees that they have a reason to work there. Who at CX is deluded enough to believe they have a career here anymore?
Last edited by Trafalgar; 9th May 2015 at 19:15.
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The truth of the matter is that CX is beginning a slow and inexorable decline. They have never really been 'well' managed. They have succeeded only because of their privileged position in HK, basically a monopoly, that is now being unwound by the government and the pressure of competitors like Emirates. Instead of focusing on growth and product, they are institutionally blinded by a need to 'manage', and spend all their effort and energy on waging war on the very employees that have basically allowed the airline to function as well as it has over the past decades. Now, the dysfunction at the top has caused those same employees to actively work against the airlines long term interests, resulting in the airline stagnating at just the point in history where it most needs all areas of the operation to be functioning as an efficient and productive machine. On top of that, the always present fallacy of building an airport at CLK is becoming apparent, as it can never provide the operational flexibility needed. Even a third runway is pointless, as it too will be at capacity the day it opens. Meanwhile, Emirates and all the other Gulf carriers will be operating from ever expanding modern airports, with better aircraft and a much better product (who really believes our 'first' class is anything compared to Emirates first class product on the 380?). Our management should be focusing on making sure we are expanding to all the markets that we can make money in, and not worrying about the incremental cost of employing competent and experienced aircrew. Soon, many of us are going to wake up to the fact that the only viable career (one where you can afford to be married, have children and put money away for retirement) will be with the dominant Gulf carriers. That is probably the story for the next 20-30 years, until the next sea-change of revolution takes place in the industry. CX had it's time from the 80's through to the 2010's. They probably can't survive with the myopic and incestuous Swire mindset still fighting their 18th century 'mill owner' battles against their employees instead of realising that their real danger is growing at twice their rate, with better hubs, better aircraft, better regulators and better management. Nine weeks profit share....sounds like they at least want to find a way to show their employees that they have a reason to work there. Who at CX is deluded enough to believe they have a career here anymore?
