A350 rumour
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: az
Time for the union to write the regulatory agencies of those countries we plan on operating the 350 to and discuss the merits of MFF, and the way the CX go about it. I'm pretty sure the said agencies would barf, and then ban CX from flying to or over their jurisdiction.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 193
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From: Rabbit Hutch
Intimidation
Many voices saying that MFF is not right for these types but no one sticking their neck out to say that we shouldn't even be considering it until we've had experience of operating the A350.
Safety is our first priority?
Our Safety Culture is declining in an atmosphere of intimidation and industrial unrest. We've seen what results in others' recent accidents.
Not good enough to be hoping for the best if running an airline.
Safety is our first priority?
Our Safety Culture is declining in an atmosphere of intimidation and industrial unrest. We've seen what results in others' recent accidents.
Not good enough to be hoping for the best if running an airline.
Joined: Jun 1996
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Check with Ops
It seems to me, with no Airbus experience whatsoever, that the Airbus family have more commonality than most Boeings. The 777 and 787 are really quite different machines, including some differences that are vastly different (air systems being an obvious one) but they are flown on one type rating. Why is it possible to fly the 777/787 but not the 330/350, when Airbus, as I understand it, has gone to a lot of effort to ensure commonality of logic etc in their machines?
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Hong Kong
I actually think that a common type rating is more about how the two aircraft handle, rather than about the layout of the flight instruments.
In this case the 330 and "A50" apparently have extremely similar handling characteristics, hence the CTR. I'm not saying it's right, it's just how it is.
In this case the 330 and "A50" apparently have extremely similar handling characteristics, hence the CTR. I'm not saying it's right, it's just how it is.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 53
From: The Dirty South
I'm rated on both the 330 and the 350. They are 2 completely different beasts, and it is crazy that the CAD (or any other regulatory body), would allow MFF.
I can understand perhaps a mixed roster... 3 months on one, 3 months on another...etc.
But total MMF is crazy, and everyone in the TTS/sims are saying the same thing.
I can understand perhaps a mixed roster... 3 months on one, 3 months on another...etc.
But total MMF is crazy, and everyone in the TTS/sims are saying the same thing.
Eidolon
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 62
From: Some hole
Flying the A330 and A350 by the same crew is known as single fleet flying (SFF), the two aircraft share the same type rating. Flying the A330/A340 is mixed fleet flying (MFF) as the aircraft have different type ratings.
CX will not be the only airline doing SFF with the A350, this presentation by Finnair outlines their training footprint for SFF with the A330/A350. It is almost identical to what CX is doing.
http://halldale.com/files/halldale/a...i%20Vanska.pdf
Finnair also plans to MFF the A320/A350 in the future, at the moment however with the few aircraft in the fleet the A350 is flown as an independent fleet. Regulators in Europe, USA, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brazil, and Vietnam have given the green light for A350 SFF.
The main difference with the CX approach and other airlines is the A330 procedures and checklists had been progressively changed over the past year to align with the A350.
ACMS the middle east airline that is not allowed to be mentioned on Pprune is flying the 777/787 as a single fleet. They have however decided to revert the 787 procedures to 777 (ie going backwards) which has resulting in some interesting incompatibilities.
CX will not be the only airline doing SFF with the A350, this presentation by Finnair outlines their training footprint for SFF with the A330/A350. It is almost identical to what CX is doing.
http://halldale.com/files/halldale/a...i%20Vanska.pdf
Finnair also plans to MFF the A320/A350 in the future, at the moment however with the few aircraft in the fleet the A350 is flown as an independent fleet. Regulators in Europe, USA, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brazil, and Vietnam have given the green light for A350 SFF.
The main difference with the CX approach and other airlines is the A330 procedures and checklists had been progressively changed over the past year to align with the A350.
ACMS the middle east airline that is not allowed to be mentioned on Pprune is flying the 777/787 as a single fleet. They have however decided to revert the 787 procedures to 777 (ie going backwards) which has resulting in some interesting incompatibilities.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 53
From: The Dirty South
Flying the A330 and A350 by the same crew is known as single fleet flying (SFF), the two aircraft share the same type rating. Flying the A330/A340 is mixed fleet flying (MFF) as the aircraft have different type ratings.
CX will not be the only airline doing SFF with the A350, this presentation by Finnair outlines their training footprint for SFF with the A330/A350. It is almost identical to what CX is doing.
http://halldale.com/files/halldale/a...i%20Vanska.pdf
Finnair also plans to MFF the A320/A350 in the future, at the moment however with the few aircraft in the fleet the A350 is flown as an independent fleet. Regulators in Europe, USA, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brazil, and Vietnam have given the green light for A350 SFF.
The main difference with the CX approach and other airlines is the A330 procedures and checklists had been progressively changed over the past year to align with the A350.
ACMS the middle east airline that is not allowed to be mentioned on Pprune is flying the 777/787 as a single fleet. They have however decided to revert the 787 procedures to 777 (ie going backwards) which has resulting in some interesting incompatibilities.
CX will not be the only airline doing SFF with the A350, this presentation by Finnair outlines their training footprint for SFF with the A330/A350. It is almost identical to what CX is doing.
http://halldale.com/files/halldale/a...i%20Vanska.pdf
Finnair also plans to MFF the A320/A350 in the future, at the moment however with the few aircraft in the fleet the A350 is flown as an independent fleet. Regulators in Europe, USA, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brazil, and Vietnam have given the green light for A350 SFF.
The main difference with the CX approach and other airlines is the A330 procedures and checklists had been progressively changed over the past year to align with the A350.
ACMS the middle east airline that is not allowed to be mentioned on Pprune is flying the 777/787 as a single fleet. They have however decided to revert the 787 procedures to 777 (ie going backwards) which has resulting in some interesting incompatibilities.
Mmmmm ...... indeed. No holes in the Swiss cheese to be found here. I wonder if the notably safety minded Vietnamese, Chinese (Hong Kong) etc, etc. authorities will bow to commercial pressure ? Let's throw some cheap Second Officers into the mix and really spice things up. Pun intended.
I think your last paragraph regarding the 'unmentionables', and their attempts at 777/787 SFF - is a prescient peek into the next episode of Air Disasters, and the future of commercial aviation.
Wonder what will happen with A320/A350 MFF ? That certainly sounds like an effort to put safety before efficiency
its£5perworddammit
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 148
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From: the foxhole
Mmmmm ...... indeed. No holes in the Swiss cheese to be found here. I wonder if the notably safety minded Vietnamese, Chinese (Hong Kong) etc, etc. authorities will bow to commercial pressure ? Let's throw some cheap Second Officers into the mix and really spice things up. Pun intended.
I think your last paragraph regarding the 'unmentionables', and their attempts at 777/787 SFF - is a prescient peek into the next episode of Air Disasters, and the future of commercial aviation.
Wonder what will happen with A320/A350 MFF ? That certainly sounds like an effort to put safety before efficiency
I think your last paragraph regarding the 'unmentionables', and their attempts at 777/787 SFF - is a prescient peek into the next episode of Air Disasters, and the future of commercial aviation.
Wonder what will happen with A320/A350 MFF ? That certainly sounds like an effort to put safety before efficiency
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 53
From: The Dirty South
Regarding MFF or SFF - United Airlines has been told that they will now be required to maintain pilot currency across 'display types' in their 767-300, 767-400 and 757 category. They operate as one category for pilots, and previously required no special currency requirements between aircraft.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 725
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From: VHHH Ocean 2D
Good post. And this is why we have regulatory authorities across the world.
Sadly we all know that HKCAD is on the CX payroll.
Whether it be an SO mucking up a TCAS RA, a Captain falling asleep on Finals due to fatigue, or a mistake being made due to the 'differences' between an A330/350, CAD is just waiting for a Hull Loss.
Until that sad event occurs, CAD will remain on the payroll. THEN you will see changes.
Sadly we all know that HKCAD is on the CX payroll.
Whether it be an SO mucking up a TCAS RA, a Captain falling asleep on Finals due to fatigue, or a mistake being made due to the 'differences' between an A330/350, CAD is just waiting for a Hull Loss.
Until that sad event occurs, CAD will remain on the payroll. THEN you will see changes.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 2
From: Hotel
Honestly I think there's too much grinding of teeth here regarding flying both. And from the old guys who struggle to learn new tricks mostly from what I've seen in the sim building.....and maybe they're also the senior ones who stand to gain the most from separating the 330/350 fleets....?!? Just saying....
I had absolutely no problems with the 350 differences course. In my opinion if you're an experienced Airbus pilot you will manage fine flying both. The basic flight management is identical. The 350 just has some xtra functions and systems - nothing that's gonna make you lose control. Technically - systems wise - it's a different beast altogether yes - but seriously - since flight engineers left the flight deck and all that stuff was automated I honestly feel that we have so little control over the systems that it makes no difference. So to sum up. It operates the same. Underlying stuff may be different - and you Have to study a bit more to keep up with that but I don't really see huge safety implications operationally.
Furthermore the 350 has INCREDIBLE redundancy. Safest jet I've ever seen the way it's designed.
I had absolutely no problems with the 350 differences course. In my opinion if you're an experienced Airbus pilot you will manage fine flying both. The basic flight management is identical. The 350 just has some xtra functions and systems - nothing that's gonna make you lose control. Technically - systems wise - it's a different beast altogether yes - but seriously - since flight engineers left the flight deck and all that stuff was automated I honestly feel that we have so little control over the systems that it makes no difference. So to sum up. It operates the same. Underlying stuff may be different - and you Have to study a bit more to keep up with that but I don't really see huge safety implications operationally.
Furthermore the 350 has INCREDIBLE redundancy. Safest jet I've ever seen the way it's designed.
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Not in a Bus
I'm affronted! I'm an old guy who's just taken up juggling firesticks!
I think what you mean is that some people confuse being in CC as an opportunity to not be ar$ed rising to a challenge, (takes cover, but has firesticks!)
Remember those "hell yeah I can do it" days guys? Yeah it would be safer if we all just drove one type of padded car on a track but aren't we all experienced Cathay pilots? (Aaaah...... Hmmmm..... not all of us, remember those days guys?). Maybe we should just have an elite who can fly both types, could we have offices please?
Quite pleased with that unconnected rant, now where's my matches?
I think what you mean is that some people confuse being in CC as an opportunity to not be ar$ed rising to a challenge, (takes cover, but has firesticks!)
Remember those "hell yeah I can do it" days guys? Yeah it would be safer if we all just drove one type of padded car on a track but aren't we all experienced Cathay pilots? (Aaaah...... Hmmmm..... not all of us, remember those days guys?). Maybe we should just have an elite who can fly both types, could we have offices please?
Quite pleased with that unconnected rant, now where's my matches?