The 49ers
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49ers
Recent information on Assistance to the Aviation Industry | Involving problems with the Regulator
Search for Cathay Pacific.
Search for Cathay Pacific.
Last edited by Up-into-the-air; 14th Feb 2015 at 22:15. Reason: add stuff
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I'd personally keep an open mind when you read it and remember that it was written from the point of view of an individual who was wronged. As such there is significant bias I believe toward some folks. But it very much IS worth reading.
Coming in late to the party I found the objective facts disquieting and that grown adults would actually behave like this. Often one should be greatful for adversaries--even in stressful times--because they bring a different point of view and have the potential to make everyone better. "Hitting" a few to get the rest into line doesn't foster a healthy working environment and in the long run hurts the company--AND the trick only works once--if at all. But why tricks ? Why not try keeping folks happy for a change ? Have you ever noticed how hard someone works for someone else when they realize their value and don't want to let the team down ? When you were learning to fly was it the screamer you'd try to perform well for, or the person (even if a hardass) who challenged you and when you made a mistake or two made you feel you were better than that and could do better ? The person you didn't feel coerced not to let down but the person you didn't want to let down.
Particularly telling was how unprepared/unable some folks were when taken to court. I can't imagine what even Oliver Wendall Douglas would have done to them in any venue other than the protective bubble of Hong Kong.
I think it noteworthy that on the operator's side almost everyone is in this in a genuine attempt to make things better, preserve the quality of the brand, and keep the place from cratering. Many do HAVE other options but have elected (at least for the time being) to stick it out and try to fix things--and this is commendable. But even this has its limits and unless something good happens soon we are going to see alot of folks crying uncle and bolting--just when we would need experienced folks the most. It's not anything out of spite--quite the opposite--but out of concern out of what long term chiseling and deteriorating conditions will do to the place. No one wants to see a place they really care about head downhill.
Fate has the habit of catching up with one even if it too comes late to the party. Maybe that's where we are today.
Coming in late to the party I found the objective facts disquieting and that grown adults would actually behave like this. Often one should be greatful for adversaries--even in stressful times--because they bring a different point of view and have the potential to make everyone better. "Hitting" a few to get the rest into line doesn't foster a healthy working environment and in the long run hurts the company--AND the trick only works once--if at all. But why tricks ? Why not try keeping folks happy for a change ? Have you ever noticed how hard someone works for someone else when they realize their value and don't want to let the team down ? When you were learning to fly was it the screamer you'd try to perform well for, or the person (even if a hardass) who challenged you and when you made a mistake or two made you feel you were better than that and could do better ? The person you didn't feel coerced not to let down but the person you didn't want to let down.
Particularly telling was how unprepared/unable some folks were when taken to court. I can't imagine what even Oliver Wendall Douglas would have done to them in any venue other than the protective bubble of Hong Kong.
I think it noteworthy that on the operator's side almost everyone is in this in a genuine attempt to make things better, preserve the quality of the brand, and keep the place from cratering. Many do HAVE other options but have elected (at least for the time being) to stick it out and try to fix things--and this is commendable. But even this has its limits and unless something good happens soon we are going to see alot of folks crying uncle and bolting--just when we would need experienced folks the most. It's not anything out of spite--quite the opposite--but out of concern out of what long term chiseling and deteriorating conditions will do to the place. No one wants to see a place they really care about head downhill.
Fate has the habit of catching up with one even if it too comes late to the party. Maybe that's where we are today.
Last edited by Shep69; 16th Feb 2015 at 17:30.
Eloquently written shep..and I liked some of your comments..however..
'disquieting? well i was neck deep in that fiasco and disquieting hardly lends justice to the events.
Disgusting abuse and a one sided, deliberate, co-ordinated attack from a greedy company making filthy profits is more like it. A 'littany of lies' quote from a similar management cover up comes to mind. Even more disgusting was the underhanded sell out from two (named) union individuals. The book is totally factual, well written and a great read even for the entertainment value(had it not been describing such tragic events).It should be compulsory reading for anyone employed 'post 49-ers' and certainly for any prospective employees. It quite simply describes the zero value placed on even the longest serving pilots, the degree of total contempt for any aircrew representation and the absolute ease with which it's perpetrators are prepared to lie under oath.
You can glaze a turd all you want but I was in that courtroom and all i smelled was s**t.
'disquieting? well i was neck deep in that fiasco and disquieting hardly lends justice to the events.
Disgusting abuse and a one sided, deliberate, co-ordinated attack from a greedy company making filthy profits is more like it. A 'littany of lies' quote from a similar management cover up comes to mind. Even more disgusting was the underhanded sell out from two (named) union individuals. The book is totally factual, well written and a great read even for the entertainment value(had it not been describing such tragic events).It should be compulsory reading for anyone employed 'post 49-ers' and certainly for any prospective employees. It quite simply describes the zero value placed on even the longest serving pilots, the degree of total contempt for any aircrew representation and the absolute ease with which it's perpetrators are prepared to lie under oath.
You can glaze a turd all you want but I was in that courtroom and all i smelled was s**t.
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Shep, there is no bias other than he was explaining his experience thru his eyes. After being thru that **** and being on that list....it was pretty darn accurate on the complete retarded level of those managers.... you coudnt have made this up it was so stupid.
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Last edited by Raptor4; 21st Feb 2015 at 05:30.
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I was involved with only a minor part of the '49er story'. But from what I read, it was pretty close to 100% factual for my tenure.
Having flown with JW I found him to be incredibly well rounded and very knowledgeable! I was very glad to know he was representing our interests during his time as President and then as a negotiator.
All of us are grown up enough to work out what are described as facts and what are opinion. There are always going to be personality issues with any dispute. So of course there are going to be different versions of who/what are to blame.
But I do think it is a salient reminder of (hopefully) an old Swire management paradigm! Simply put - a dollar spent on control is worth a nickel saved in expenses!
So I recommend everyone read it whether they joined 1991, 2001 or 2011. It shows what happens when egos overcome economics.
And for those that doubt the veracity of JW's accounts, remember that management denied 'any list' for determining the 49ers until it was leaked by a disgruntled, recently fired manager, about 6 years later.
Having flown with JW I found him to be incredibly well rounded and very knowledgeable! I was very glad to know he was representing our interests during his time as President and then as a negotiator.
All of us are grown up enough to work out what are described as facts and what are opinion. There are always going to be personality issues with any dispute. So of course there are going to be different versions of who/what are to blame.
But I do think it is a salient reminder of (hopefully) an old Swire management paradigm! Simply put - a dollar spent on control is worth a nickel saved in expenses!
So I recommend everyone read it whether they joined 1991, 2001 or 2011. It shows what happens when egos overcome economics.
And for those that doubt the veracity of JW's accounts, remember that management denied 'any list' for determining the 49ers until it was leaked by a disgruntled, recently fired manager, about 6 years later.
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BlunderBus and Scoreboard. Thanks and I appreciate the insight. Like I said came in a bit late into the party and this was my interpretation.
I think it would be healthy if the folks concerned would understand they don't have the power they think they do. The only power they wield is what those who choose to continue working for them choose to delegate to them.
I think it would be healthy if the folks concerned would understand they don't have the power they think they do. The only power they wield is what those who choose to continue working for them choose to delegate to them.
