USAB. Reality of the market, and CX's 'head in the sand' approach

[BillytheKid]

Many more than 17 are trying to leave. It takes time, but I can guarentee more will leave.

Iceman50-

Pi$$ off with your childish attitude towards those of us that would like CX to offer a better compensation package. We wouldn't have to contemplate leaving if they hadn't fallen so far. BTW, that fall affects even you mate.

Merry Christmas!

[ERJDCA]

Undies,

Guys are leaving, its just going to take time. I know of 7 since August that have already resigned and another 2 with interviews coming up next month. There are also a handful of guys with recalls that will go as well. It might not sound like much but 10 years ago nobody I knew would consider leaving. Rather than improving, things continually get worse.

Swh,

Those US pay scales are WAY off. I believe that must have been the old freighter scales from years ago. It isn't that bad, however, it is still way behind the big three in the U.S. (assuming AA signs this new TA). Medical might be very good right now but we will see how it changes for the worse during the on-shoring.

[GTC58]

There is just over 200 CX pilots based in the USA. 17 leaving seems to be a significant number. A lot of the USAB FO have applied elsewhere. However, it takes time to get an interview and course.
The onshoring will be very interesting as some USAB FO are preparing an age discrimination grievance and I am sure if it is not resolved by the time of onshoring that this issue will go to court. Not to mention the paycut related to this and the lower then HKG pay rise offer for USAB officers.

[ERJDCA]

and the list goes on...

[geh065]

Cathay are employing 320 new SOs next year and upgrading a significant amount to FO. Even if all the "200" USAB FOs leave, I fear it might not improve the package much unless they all left at the same time but then it wouldn't matter because there would be no one left to give the pay rise to.

[asianeagle]

Iceman and Asian Eagle. Refer to categories 1), 2) or 3) in my post. Which of those do you belong to?

(and Asian....by the end of next year ALL US majors will pay more than USAB.)

Actually non of the above, I'm a reasonably junior HKG based Cpt.

All I asked for is some real numbers, not management speak percentages which tell us nothing. Which of the 3 are you??

Now that someone has posted real numbers, I now agree with you in general

Cut to the chase, bring real numbers then we all on the same page…something we could do with in HKG too maybe

[boxjockey]

Cathay are employing 320 new SOs next year and upgrading a significant amount to FO.

Mwhahahaha!!! Right, that is DEFINITELY going to happen! Have a look at our net growth of pilots on the seniority list for the last year. Now, put that together with a RUMORED 80 trainer shortage on all fleets, mix it all up with around 100 commands, and tell me what you get? There are hopes, and then there is reality. If CX manages to put in 320 new cadets to the line next year, I will eat my hat!!!!

box

[DropKnee]

DELTA AIR LINES PAYSCALES
CAPTAIN PAY SCALE (Hourly)
Year
777 747-4 787 A330 767-4 757 767 737-9 737-7 737-8 A319 A320 MD88 MD90 717
12 263 263 251 248 248 219 219 212 210 210 203 203 200 200 190
11 261 261 249 246 246 217 217 210 209 209 202 202 198 198 188
10 259 259 247 244 244 215 215 208 207 207 200 200 196 196 186
9 256 256 246 242 242 213 213 207 206 206 199 199 193 193 185
8 254 254 244 240 240 211 211 205 204 204 197 197 192 192 183
7 252 252 242 239 239 209 209 204 203 203 196 196 190 190 182
6 250 250 240 237 237 208 208 202 201 201 194 194 188 188 181
5 248 248 238 235 235 206 206 201 200 200 193 193 186 186 180
4 246 246 236 233 233 205 205 199 198 198 191 191 185 185 178
3 245 245 234 231 231 203 203 198 197 197 190 190 183 183 177
2 243 243 233 230 230 202 202 196 195 195 187 187 182 182 175
1 241 241 231 228 228 200 200 195 194 194 186 186 180 180 173

[SloppyJoe]

Is it duty hour from sign on to end of duty or flying hour? How are the hours calculated in the US?

[AQIS Boigu]

How many hours a month are guaranteed?

[letsfly75]

Normally it's block or better. No adjustment factor like CX. Guarantee varies by the airline but is usually around 80. Remember most contracts include minimum day, duty rigs and trip rigs. If we had rigs at CX my pay, based on my current schedules, would jump significantly.

[GTC58]

It doesn't help to get bums in the seats when JFO upgrades now need increasing LUFUS sectors and that the failure rate is increasing as well. That is one of the reasons why we have less pilots now on the seniority list then at the beginning of the year. And of course captains retiring and FO and SO leaving. I personally know FO's from several bases left, like HKG, FRA, SFO, LAX, NYC ....... Surprisingly even Cadets from the AE and TT courses left this year, some with financial loses as they couldn't see a future in Hong Kong with their families.

The original target for new hires in 2015 was around 150 and had to be increased to 320 due to the above. In my opinion it will just get worse. There is now talk to lease two B777 simulators and instructors in TPE as they are already running at training capacity on the B777 fleet.

Doesn't help that the number of cadet applications is significantly down by over 50%.

I talked to many USAB guys and its not only about pay. It is about a modern roster and leave system where you can bid, a solid contract, labor protection laws, jump seating and staff travel privileges, retirement benefits and much more. All off what CX can not or is not willing to provide, but US carriers can. Not to mention constant conflict and tension between CX management and the pilots. Maybe ask some of the pilots who are at CX for over 20 years, most will tell you that this is the worst they have it seen here with the lowest morale ever.

[Arfur Dent]

Rostering is pretty much what it was 20 years ago. If you look at what your phone and your computer can do now when compared to 20 years ago, you can see just how 'innovative' Cathay Pacific is regarding its' treatment of aircrew.
I say again ' Rostering is pretty much what it was 20 years ago' .
Bloody disgraceful...........

[Shep69]

Scheduling should be more than reacting to a series of recurring train wrecks. Ironically enough, a coherent, stable, and modern rostering system as well as a decent contract would go a long way toward mitigating any effects of contract compliance. Once again a good example of how everyone can win if only our leadership would have vision and place profit ahead of ego and power.

[ERJDCA]

Well said GTC58! It isn't just about pay, it's everything...