G day workers
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Its fairly obvious that the G day boys are getting most of the overtime.
CC has a list of willing G day workers and reward them with juicy flights that lead to some overtime. Win/win.
Thats why you and I sit on reserve and don't do much....
CC has a list of willing G day workers and reward them with juicy flights that lead to some overtime. Win/win.
Thats why you and I sit on reserve and don't do much....
sam ting wong
Several airlines have ordered aircraft they couldn't crew including us. We took ZK-NBS a brand new 744 from air NZ for 2 years along with our first 2 A340-200's from PAL before your time I guess!
Your summation of 2-3 G' days comment is ball park accurate though because the 'company' had an accumulated deficit of 9,000 G days that had been worked but that they refused to pay for and simply 'wrote off'. They used to pay you AND reinstate the G day.
Before making sweeping remarks you might want to brush up on local history. In addition I just had four consecutive 100+ hour months and 3 consecutive months of incomplete crews transpac...obviously no shortage there!!
"Sometimes, a shortage of pilots forces them to keep the planes grounded. For example, Biman has to keep a new Boeing 777-300ER on standby four days a week"... financial times.
"The decision to ground the Army's brand new Apache helicopters for up to four years because of a pilot shortage was today branded as "wasteful"...usa today
Japanese carriers ground aircraft and cancel large numbers of flights due to lack of crew"..seattle times.
"mismanagement at boeing crashes replacement 737 jet"..CBS
NO it just couldn't be possible that managers screw up!
Your summation of 2-3 G' days comment is ball park accurate though because the 'company' had an accumulated deficit of 9,000 G days that had been worked but that they refused to pay for and simply 'wrote off'. They used to pay you AND reinstate the G day.
Before making sweeping remarks you might want to brush up on local history. In addition I just had four consecutive 100+ hour months and 3 consecutive months of incomplete crews transpac...obviously no shortage there!!
"Sometimes, a shortage of pilots forces them to keep the planes grounded. For example, Biman has to keep a new Boeing 777-300ER on standby four days a week"... financial times.
"The decision to ground the Army's brand new Apache helicopters for up to four years because of a pilot shortage was today branded as "wasteful"...usa today
Japanese carriers ground aircraft and cancel large numbers of flights due to lack of crew"..seattle times.
"mismanagement at boeing crashes replacement 737 jet"..CBS
NO it just couldn't be possible that managers screw up!
Last edited by BlunderBus; 1st Dec 2014 at 02:48.
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Maybe you are right, hard to proof, but point taken.
I still believe we vastly overestimate the impact of CC. I am never ever in significant over time, and I do not believe you flying 100+ hrs is so hurtful for the company. I bet you haven't had a sick day in a long time, neither did you refuse to go into discretion.
At CX we have the tendency to ask the invisible, evil "other" to fight. All the people I talk to on the line never bring forward anything they will change themselves. We instate recruitman bans, demonize "the G day worker", talk about inferior cadets, etc etc. And if that doesn't help we turn to the CEO, the SCMP, or to some sort of moral conspiracy theory, a big evil plan smouldering behind the curtain. But it is never US who has to change, to do something significant, something that could be harmful for my OWN career. I am not impressed and extremely sceptical about CC in its current outlay, much too easy for the company to simply sit it out. I think it will harm us more than we can imagine today. I respect other opinions of course, if the AOA calls for it I will do my part,clearly I am in a minority here.
Time will tell.
I still believe we vastly overestimate the impact of CC. I am never ever in significant over time, and I do not believe you flying 100+ hrs is so hurtful for the company. I bet you haven't had a sick day in a long time, neither did you refuse to go into discretion.
At CX we have the tendency to ask the invisible, evil "other" to fight. All the people I talk to on the line never bring forward anything they will change themselves. We instate recruitman bans, demonize "the G day worker", talk about inferior cadets, etc etc. And if that doesn't help we turn to the CEO, the SCMP, or to some sort of moral conspiracy theory, a big evil plan smouldering behind the curtain. But it is never US who has to change, to do something significant, something that could be harmful for my OWN career. I am not impressed and extremely sceptical about CC in its current outlay, much too easy for the company to simply sit it out. I think it will harm us more than we can imagine today. I respect other opinions of course, if the AOA calls for it I will do my part,clearly I am in a minority here.
Time will tell.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 1st Dec 2014 at 04:05.
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How about the Friday Firelighter comment that they had to cancel LAX and LHR flights last week? Was it due to pax loading as they claim, or was it crewing.... who really knows the true story?
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Truth isnt exactly a strength of the organisation, hence one of the lowest 'engagement' scores in corporate history in that last embarrassing survey.
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At CX we have the tendency to ask the invisible, evil "other" to fight. All the people I talk to on the line never bring forward anything they will change themselves. We instate recruitman bans, demonize "the G day worker", talk about inferior cadets, etc etc. And if that doesn't help we turn to the CEO, the SCMP, or to some sort of moral conspiracy theory, a big evil plan smouldering behind the curtain. But it is never US who has to change, to do something significant, something that could be harmful for my OWN career.
Typical around here.
Last edited by ColonelAngus; 1st Dec 2014 at 16:54. Reason: misspelled Sam's name
Sam Ting Wong
Actually STW I follow your point of view and it is somewhat valid however I would be thrilled to hear you actually suggest something. I don't expect too much from CC but at the least it should define in real terms the measure of goodwill and it's effect on real line operations. If the company interpret CC as industrial action or disruptive then by definition they must admit to relying on it and abusing our basic contractual terms....as they obviously do.
Where does it say that C/CTL can change a break day to a duty? EXB is defined in vol A as "free from ALL duties" yet I'm constantly assigned duties on rostered EXB's...all for free of course. Like 30 days unpaid reserve on a base? really? Who DOES that?
Nope..things must change and if you view CC as unpalatable so be it but I for one no longer wish to work for nothing on either L G or break days..(which I most definitely DO NOT)
When I turn up I want to be paid and I want that pay to keep abreast of it's spending value.
Where does it say that C/CTL can change a break day to a duty? EXB is defined in vol A as "free from ALL duties" yet I'm constantly assigned duties on rostered EXB's...all for free of course. Like 30 days unpaid reserve on a base? really? Who DOES that?
Nope..things must change and if you view CC as unpalatable so be it but I for one no longer wish to work for nothing on either L G or break days..(which I most definitely DO NOT)
When I turn up I want to be paid and I want that pay to keep abreast of it's spending value.
angus
And Angus..if you choose to join any airline seniority based during a dispute that included illegal random sackings..then you better expect to cop some flak!!
your choice
your choice
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Blunder is a good name for you.
In any airline where the majority of the pilots had any backbone, the sacking of 49 pilots would result in the immediate shutdown of the airline and picket lines across the front of Kitty City and the airport terminal.
Even if every one of the pilots lost his or her job, that is what pilots, when directed by REAL union, do.
Anyone who crossed those picket lines would be considered a scab.
A recruitment ban is just another pu$$y-ass attempt at pretending to care while RISKING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Have members of our GC who took upgrades to fill the places of the 49ers copped any flak?
Get real.
In any airline where the majority of the pilots had any backbone, the sacking of 49 pilots would result in the immediate shutdown of the airline and picket lines across the front of Kitty City and the airport terminal.
Even if every one of the pilots lost his or her job, that is what pilots, when directed by REAL union, do.
Anyone who crossed those picket lines would be considered a scab.
A recruitment ban is just another pu$$y-ass attempt at pretending to care while RISKING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Have members of our GC who took upgrades to fill the places of the 49ers copped any flak?
Get real.
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Have members of our GC who took upgrades to fill the places of the 49ers copped any flak?
The group of GC members that were in Elementary School at the time might want to ask around to find out what went on.
The group of GC members that were in Elementary School at the time might want to ask around to find out what went on.
Angus
You're about to see a demonstration that defines the difference between living in a country that values and upholds labour laws and the one we work in.
You can talk 'pussy assed' all you want.. I'm betting you weren't there to see it... Or pay for it...
You can talk 'pussy assed' all you want.. I'm betting you weren't there to see it... Or pay for it...
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Blunder, you'd lose your bet. I will still talk "pussy-assed" about those who failed to risk losing THEIR jobs by shutting the company down the day the 49ers LOST THEIRS!
Angus
At the risk of using the forum for a slanging match perhaps you'd care to enlighten us with exactly what action you took during that time?? For (near) future reference of course.
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Blunderbus,
I don't think it is my turn to suggest anything. I voted yes on the pay offer because I didn't know any alternative, and I don't know a better ( and achievable) strategy now. In my opinion it is up to the guys who voted no to come forward with a feasible and effective strategy.
I said it before, and I will say it again, I voted yes not because I thought it is a fair and generous offer, but for the reasons above and because the GC recommended it
I don't think it is my turn to suggest anything. I voted yes on the pay offer because I didn't know any alternative, and I don't know a better ( and achievable) strategy now. In my opinion it is up to the guys who voted no to come forward with a feasible and effective strategy.
I said it before, and I will say it again, I voted yes not because I thought it is a fair and generous offer, but for the reasons above and because the GC recommended it
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 3rd Dec 2014 at 02:21.
STW & Angus
Well said STW..a perfect example of just let everyone else do the work and you collect. Just to set the record straight the GC's 'recommendation' was in fact a condition imposed by the company during bargaining. A red flag if ever I've seen one. The commitee's viewpoint was to take the payrise offered (unconditionally) and continue to lobby for a better deal..which I agreed with.
Angus..if that is/was your sentiment regarding the AOA's handling of proceedings pre/post 49-ers then why be a member..then or now? As with any 'industrial action' there are legal boundaries much as the UK/EU guys are facing now. The escalation, in increments including a hiring ban, was fully endorsed by the international pilot union bodies at the time. Your reaction to it makes me wonder if you were actually one of those inconvenienced by it. Why else would it bother you? A full blown strike may or may not have done the trick but with DT, a particularly aggressive ceo, at the wheel the consensus at the time(not just local sentiment)was that he was prepared to shut down operations..and re-employ everyone on much reduced contracts. The precedent of the Australian domestic debacle in the late eighties set the tone and showed that airlines can and will bring operations to a complete halt, and a country's travelling public to their knees(with a little help from the govt of course), in the course of breaking a union and destroying thousands of pilot's lives. I believe personally that he was prepared to do just that. That occurred in a country that far outweighs this one in the delivery of justice.
I too became disgruntled so when the self elected and short lived MG sold our FTL's and contracts down the river and pushed through a pro company motion to turn their collective backs on the 49-ers...I and a few hearty souls formed the CPU (at great expense) solely to fund the court case(s) being fought by those illegally terminated pilots and to continue financially supporting their wives and children...for 11 years.
So whatever you think of my opinions here...Whereas you advocate striking (anonymously)..There are many others who have put their money where their collective mouths were for years, stood up financially and legally for their sacked colleagues, and actually did something to bring about a successful legal result (albeit the hk version of one) for the 49-ers and made the ratbags who perpetrated these events admit their actions in the public eye.
What did YOU do exactly....errrrr....I thought so!
Angus..if that is/was your sentiment regarding the AOA's handling of proceedings pre/post 49-ers then why be a member..then or now? As with any 'industrial action' there are legal boundaries much as the UK/EU guys are facing now. The escalation, in increments including a hiring ban, was fully endorsed by the international pilot union bodies at the time. Your reaction to it makes me wonder if you were actually one of those inconvenienced by it. Why else would it bother you? A full blown strike may or may not have done the trick but with DT, a particularly aggressive ceo, at the wheel the consensus at the time(not just local sentiment)was that he was prepared to shut down operations..and re-employ everyone on much reduced contracts. The precedent of the Australian domestic debacle in the late eighties set the tone and showed that airlines can and will bring operations to a complete halt, and a country's travelling public to their knees(with a little help from the govt of course), in the course of breaking a union and destroying thousands of pilot's lives. I believe personally that he was prepared to do just that. That occurred in a country that far outweighs this one in the delivery of justice.
I too became disgruntled so when the self elected and short lived MG sold our FTL's and contracts down the river and pushed through a pro company motion to turn their collective backs on the 49-ers...I and a few hearty souls formed the CPU (at great expense) solely to fund the court case(s) being fought by those illegally terminated pilots and to continue financially supporting their wives and children...for 11 years.
So whatever you think of my opinions here...Whereas you advocate striking (anonymously)..There are many others who have put their money where their collective mouths were for years, stood up financially and legally for their sacked colleagues, and actually did something to bring about a successful legal result (albeit the hk version of one) for the 49-ers and made the ratbags who perpetrated these events admit their actions in the public eye.
What did YOU do exactly....errrrr....I thought so!
Last edited by BlunderBus; 3rd Dec 2014 at 05:18.
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Forum Fighters
Well said Blunderbus. There are many fighters here (anonymously) that state all sort of actions that should have been done but your reality check on HK and DT was spot on.