Tech Quiz Again!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,410
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From: HKG
Old Fella,
I always enjoyed flying with F/E's and 2 pilot long haul is the poorer without them.
However, I must point out that your salary when you flew for CX was probably more, with better benefits and allowances, than the current FO's despite the huge increases in the costs of HK living.
I always enjoyed flying with F/E's and 2 pilot long haul is the poorer without them.
However, I must point out that your salary when you flew for CX was probably more, with better benefits and allowances, than the current FO's despite the huge increases in the costs of HK living.
Last edited by BusyB; 15th August 2014 at 16:40. Reason: spelling
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 96
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From: Europe
Old Fella, you are so out of touch with the situation up here! Your generation licked the CX plate clean and you have the nerve to criticize us. I too started my career with a spanner in my hand and worked through all the seats, so I can tell you your statements have no merit!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,342
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From: Wingham NSW Australia
Low salary - Licking the plate clean
BusyB. Thank you for your comment. Yes, I did enjoy very good conditions of service when with CX and I am aware that I was in an era where I was paid a salary much above anything available in Australia at the time. I have no doubt that things have changed, however I would be surprised if the salary of a F/O employed today would be less than my final salary. I resigned from CX 23 years back, not because of any dissatisfaction with CX but rather because I wanted to return to Australia. If conditions are as bad as some indicate I am very sorry that the COS have degraded to such a point where most whom post on this forum seem to be so disenchanted. If your COS have degraded during the period of your employment then surely your AOA is not doing what it was formed to do.
Just do it. Not sure which of my comments have no merit. Your opinion regarding my generation "licking the CX plate clean" is utter crap. If CX are not still looking after their employee's as well as they once used to that is hardly the fault of those of my generation. It just may be that those of my generation were prepared to put the interests of our employer before those of ourselves from time to time. As for your beginning with a spanner in your hand and working through all the seats, I congratulate you. It is just a pity that you seem not to be enjoying that achievement.
Just do it. Not sure which of my comments have no merit. Your opinion regarding my generation "licking the CX plate clean" is utter crap. If CX are not still looking after their employee's as well as they once used to that is hardly the fault of those of my generation. It just may be that those of my generation were prepared to put the interests of our employer before those of ourselves from time to time. As for your beginning with a spanner in your hand and working through all the seats, I congratulate you. It is just a pity that you seem not to be enjoying that achievement.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 3
From: Brexitland
Old Fella!
So you left in 1991, right. ( My Maths is still amazing). Unless you have been in some kind of bubble where you don't keep up with any aircrew working at CX and only notice the 'moaners and whingers' who frequent Pprune, you simply MUST know that the rot (aka bean counters) set in at almost exactly that time as accountants started to slash aircrew COS - a process that continues today - wait for it - 23 years later! So CX aircrew have had a continuous period of nearly two and a half DECADES under the cosh. We now have young SO's joining on 10000$HK a month housing for example - think what you got 23 years ago just before you left, factor in rampant inflation and then imagine where most of these kids are living ( if it's not with Ma and Pa)!
Most pilots are already doing a private version of CC because they feel so undervalued and unappreciated that it's the only action they can take without leaving. Why don't they leave? Generally, because they have families who are 'in the system' and the risk/ disruption is just too much. The people I think will start the exodus are the youngsters joining lately on truly average packages who will find, as they grow older, that they can simply not afford to bring up a wife and family in Hong Kong with any sort of style.
So, eventually, the accountants will win. They will have no pilots to pay so the airline will run super smoothly and there will be no need for an AOA or a GMA. The DFO will be running CX from a dark room with ex military folk qualified as drone pilots controlling the aircraft from some cheap dive in China. Same team- same dream.
No you didn't lick the plate clean but consider yourself lucky that you had a proper plate. Some other 'Old Fellas' still do and live the good life but, as the years go by, they will get fewer and fewer and the boys and girls leaving CX in 2037 (still stunning maths) may not look back on their employers quite as kindly as you do.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you appreciate that you saw the best of Cathay Pacific - big time, Sir.
So you left in 1991, right. ( My Maths is still amazing). Unless you have been in some kind of bubble where you don't keep up with any aircrew working at CX and only notice the 'moaners and whingers' who frequent Pprune, you simply MUST know that the rot (aka bean counters) set in at almost exactly that time as accountants started to slash aircrew COS - a process that continues today - wait for it - 23 years later! So CX aircrew have had a continuous period of nearly two and a half DECADES under the cosh. We now have young SO's joining on 10000$HK a month housing for example - think what you got 23 years ago just before you left, factor in rampant inflation and then imagine where most of these kids are living ( if it's not with Ma and Pa)!
Most pilots are already doing a private version of CC because they feel so undervalued and unappreciated that it's the only action they can take without leaving. Why don't they leave? Generally, because they have families who are 'in the system' and the risk/ disruption is just too much. The people I think will start the exodus are the youngsters joining lately on truly average packages who will find, as they grow older, that they can simply not afford to bring up a wife and family in Hong Kong with any sort of style.
So, eventually, the accountants will win. They will have no pilots to pay so the airline will run super smoothly and there will be no need for an AOA or a GMA. The DFO will be running CX from a dark room with ex military folk qualified as drone pilots controlling the aircraft from some cheap dive in China. Same team- same dream.
No you didn't lick the plate clean but consider yourself lucky that you had a proper plate. Some other 'Old Fellas' still do and live the good life but, as the years go by, they will get fewer and fewer and the boys and girls leaving CX in 2037 (still stunning maths) may not look back on their employers quite as kindly as you do.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you appreciate that you saw the best of Cathay Pacific - big time, Sir.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,342
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From: Wingham NSW Australia
Best of CX
Arfur, I know that I certainly was in CX at the best of it and I appreciate that fact. It is just disappointing to read of so much disenchantment and I am very sorry that things have been degraded to the extent it seems. I appologise for being critical of those who feel badly treated.
Thank you for your measured response and I will refrain from making further comment.
Thank you for your measured response and I will refrain from making further comment.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 601
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From: England
Just before you go Old Fella...
You seem to forget that the major uplift in pay and conditions happened when we all met in the Mariner's Club and voted to go on strike... until Mike Hardy (the current DFO) walked in and basically told us the company would accept all our demands to avert the action. I know, I was there. Most guys on this forum whinging and whining are sublimating the desire to carry out any effective action to support their own positions...
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,342
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From: Wingham NSW Australia
CX Degradation of COS
Kitsune and Curtain Rod. I can do no more than offer my apologies for offering an opinion based on a flawed understanding of just what has taken place in the years since I left CX.
I have never advocated industrial action as I always believed I was fairly treated by CX and that belief is in no way altered by the apparent current situation. The list of changes listed by Curtain Rod is very insightful and gives me a clearer understanding of why there is such discontent felt by those affected.
My earlier comment regarding loyalty to my employer is/was predicated on that loyalty being returned by my employer. This was, to me, never in question. I did my job and I was well rewarded for so doing. CX had a heart then however that seems not to be the case now.
I will, as said before, refrain from any further comment on a subject with which I have not kept abreast.
I have never advocated industrial action as I always believed I was fairly treated by CX and that belief is in no way altered by the apparent current situation. The list of changes listed by Curtain Rod is very insightful and gives me a clearer understanding of why there is such discontent felt by those affected.
My earlier comment regarding loyalty to my employer is/was predicated on that loyalty being returned by my employer. This was, to me, never in question. I did my job and I was well rewarded for so doing. CX had a heart then however that seems not to be the case now.
I will, as said before, refrain from any further comment on a subject with which I have not kept abreast.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 132
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From: Nuclear Dust City
Hey LTiCX, name me one serious incident that was caused by an ex-cadet. I could probably give you a list by your so-called "experienced" guys over the last 5 years that's long enough to choke you to death.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 140
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From: HK MTR
CXChildLabour
Tail strike, Auckland, could have ended up more serious.
I'm not taking sides but if you throw out a challenge then maybe you should be sure of your facts.
We are all human and therefore have and will always make mistakes. Experience helps but then again experience does not count for much when your eyes are hanging out of your head.
Tail strike, Auckland, could have ended up more serious.
I'm not taking sides but if you throw out a challenge then maybe you should be sure of your facts.
We are all human and therefore have and will always make mistakes. Experience helps but then again experience does not count for much when your eyes are hanging out of your head.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 132
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From: Nuclear Dust City
Granted, the individual you mentioned was one of the more senior ex cadet and when that incident happened he probably had at least double if not triple the hours of what these "experienced" DEFO has coming in, so if that's the measuring stick then I believe CX should not hire anyone with less than 10 years of jet experience.
I ain't denying the fact that new joiners through cadet entry is lacking experience and shouldn't be the only stream for new hire. What I'm sick of is old farts like LTiCX keep on dissing ex-cadets, even after they have paid their dues and have earned the respect they deserve. What the company offers in contract terms is one thing that's worth debating but trying to gain leverage by playing down his colleague's abilities is simply disgusting.
LTiCX, next time if you get checked by an ex-cadet STC, do us a favor and tell him how crap you think he is and just walk outta that room. Quite honestly if you think your colleagues are such a big risk to your life everytime you go to work, you probably should just pull the pin and get the heck outta here. Your life should worth more than that paycheck, at least I hope so.
I ain't denying the fact that new joiners through cadet entry is lacking experience and shouldn't be the only stream for new hire. What I'm sick of is old farts like LTiCX keep on dissing ex-cadets, even after they have paid their dues and have earned the respect they deserve. What the company offers in contract terms is one thing that's worth debating but trying to gain leverage by playing down his colleague's abilities is simply disgusting.
LTiCX, next time if you get checked by an ex-cadet STC, do us a favor and tell him how crap you think he is and just walk outta that room. Quite honestly if you think your colleagues are such a big risk to your life everytime you go to work, you probably should just pull the pin and get the heck outta here. Your life should worth more than that paycheck, at least I hope so.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 97
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From: NZ
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 140
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From: Home
Go back 7 years and one of our kind crew on maternity leave went through the tech quiz and dumped nearly half the questions as they had appalling use of English. Remarkably the company let her do this, hence we have a shorter quiz today.
Glass is half full.
Glass is half full.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 382
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From: Hong Kong
I'm all for tech quizzes , I do them to the best if my ability and often learn something that I didn't know before .
But seriously what does receiving Lai see have to do with tech issues .
Same goes for drugs and alcohol . We all know that we are not to be under the influence when in the cockpit so why waste a complete section of the tech quiz on these issues
And some of the phraseology of the questions leaves a lot to be desired
But seriously what does receiving Lai see have to do with tech issues .
Same goes for drugs and alcohol . We all know that we are not to be under the influence when in the cockpit so why waste a complete section of the tech quiz on these issues
And some of the phraseology of the questions leaves a lot to be desired
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 172
From: with the ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
The words 'lawyers' and 'ass-covering' come to mind. By putting this crap in the tech quiz, they can say that they brought these requirements to your attention.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 42
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From: Hong Kong
The porky pie vouchers limited to exchanging for porkie pies only are not considered as cash , unlike supermarket vouchers which are, but all considerations must be made to see if someone is trying to get one over on you by giving you a porkie pie voucher
So I guess when the bank gave me a whole bunch of welcome vouchers for opening an account I should have reported it , after all I don't know who got the advantage me for getting the coupons or the bank 'cause they got my money I am conflicted and in a quandary
So I guess when the bank gave me a whole bunch of welcome vouchers for opening an account I should have reported it , after all I don't know who got the advantage me for getting the coupons or the bank 'cause they got my money I am conflicted and in a quandary