And now it's Manchester.....
I am pleased for all the MAN based pilots that the process has been delayed by 12 months...BUT everyone got to ask himself how a base without airplanes can be viable in the long run - this ticking bomb has yet to be defused.
Almost every based pilot in CX (particular the ones hired by direct entry) struggles to understand that bases are solely a commercial decision not an employee benefit.
Further the apparent expectation and this sense of entitlement to remain on a base forever including getting a command on a base resembles the ever proven fact that pilots occasionally refuse to acknowledge reality vs. commercial sustainability in an evolving business world.
Fact is that we are a HKG airline with our HQ in HKG; hence - as seen recently with CDG - a potential relocation with its associated burdens should always be taken into consideration as a based pilot at CX.
Sometimes I wonder what the recruiters told based applicants during the interview process about a potential transfer to HKG in case of a base closure.
Almost every based pilot in CX (particular the ones hired by direct entry) struggles to understand that bases are solely a commercial decision not an employee benefit.
Further the apparent expectation and this sense of entitlement to remain on a base forever including getting a command on a base resembles the ever proven fact that pilots occasionally refuse to acknowledge reality vs. commercial sustainability in an evolving business world.
Fact is that we are a HKG airline with our HQ in HKG; hence - as seen recently with CDG - a potential relocation with its associated burdens should always be taken into consideration as a based pilot at CX.
Sometimes I wonder what the recruiters told based applicants during the interview process about a potential transfer to HKG in case of a base closure.
Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 12th Jun 2014 at 02:54.
Come on chaps - just brief the wife and kids that they should be prepared to upsticks and move at any time. It's only 6000 miles and Hong Kong is a nice cheap place to live with the package we offer. Schools are pretty good and readily available with only a small (if you're rich like me) non- returnable debenture. Believe me, you're lucky to have this job and I know some of you (OK - hundreds of you) are foregoing Commands to stay on your Base but you should come to Hong Kong and live the dream.
They really thought this one through eh? All those Oxford brains and this is what you get......................
They really thought this one through eh? All those Oxford brains and this is what you get......................
Originally Posted by AQIS Boigu
.BUT everyone got to ask himself how a base without airplanes can be viable in the long run - this ticking bomb has yet to be defused
Oh btw, most captains in MAN do not have pax command seniority, much less based pax command seniority.
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Seniority
That is interesting cxorcist, they do not have the seniority according to your perception of seniority. What matters however is UK employment law's interpretation of seniority; It is unlikely to take into account CX employees that are not employed in the UK, that would make them senior enough amongst UK based employees. Obviously if they were to fly pax aircraft that would create huge friction not compatible with good CRM.
Once the triple starts to MAN it will be much easier to position them to HKG to fly the freighter. They may well become the first commuters whose commuting is done in J class in the company's time and at its expense.
Once the triple starts to MAN it will be much easier to position them to HKG to fly the freighter. They may well become the first commuters whose commuting is done in J class in the company's time and at its expense.
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What is the (monetary) difference between a Freighter CN salary and Pax F/O?.
If it's negligible, a solution may be to right seat qualify the chaps on the MAN base to the 777 and wait until their seniority comes up for command.
If that is too heinous to contemplate, they could rotate half the chaps on a six monthly basis through the 777 in the right seat, or even dual qualify them - CN B744, F/O B777. There are already a number of pilots on the 3/F who are dual type qualified, so it's hardly precedent setting.
The issue of an underutilized workforce in MAN has not gone away. The company has given clear notice of it's intentions and the hammer IS going to fall, in due course.
The onus is on US to produce a solution - and present it, with it's productivity and pecuniary advantages - to CX to digest and eventually present as their own solution. (G*d forbid they actually acknowledge that their "million dollar morons" are capable of producing a working solution that actually SAVES money.)
If it's negligible, a solution may be to right seat qualify the chaps on the MAN base to the 777 and wait until their seniority comes up for command.
If that is too heinous to contemplate, they could rotate half the chaps on a six monthly basis through the 777 in the right seat, or even dual qualify them - CN B744, F/O B777. There are already a number of pilots on the 3/F who are dual type qualified, so it's hardly precedent setting.
The issue of an underutilized workforce in MAN has not gone away. The company has given clear notice of it's intentions and the hammer IS going to fall, in due course.
The onus is on US to produce a solution - and present it, with it's productivity and pecuniary advantages - to CX to digest and eventually present as their own solution. (G*d forbid they actually acknowledge that their "million dollar morons" are capable of producing a working solution that actually SAVES money.)
What matters however is UK employment law's interpretation of seniority; It is unlikely to take into account CX employees that are not employed in the UK, that would make them senior enough amongst UK based employees.
Seniority I thought would only be an issue if they were transferred directly to HKG on the 744. If they converted them to the 777 whilst on the base, then transferred them to HKG, do they retain their rank ?
Having 777 pilots based in MAN could be good reserve coverage for Europe.
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@ SuperFrozo
To clarify, (and don't wriggle out of it by playing the I'm so intelligent satire card).
Your Post 58, Sentences 1,2 and 4 = You're an Idiot
No, I'm not on the GC.
Your Post 58, Sentences 1,2 and 4 = You're an Idiot
No, I'm not on the GC.
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Superfrozo, all I'm saying is that you're wrong about the AOA in this case: I'm quite happy with the way they went about this issue.
Aqis: you're absolutely right, but as usual reality is even more complex. Most of the MAN-based boys are ex-KA, they were gobbled up by us through no fault of their own. They would have a legitimate issue with being forced back to HKG on a package far inferior to that of their contemporaries still in KA (on full housing and ten weeks leave).
As far as people hired directly on a base, I have not met many who did not understand from day one that they were joining a HKG carrier and might reasonably expect to spend some of their career there. However, that understanding came hand in hand with the implication that the crewmember would have a say in when this happened (for an upgrade for example, or when kids reach a certain age), and it went without saying that it would be on a full expat package (there was nothing else at the time).
In summary I think Underpants is spot on: disaster averted for now but we need to work with the company find a solution acceptable to all of those involved in order to keep the positions viable.
MD
Aqis: you're absolutely right, but as usual reality is even more complex. Most of the MAN-based boys are ex-KA, they were gobbled up by us through no fault of their own. They would have a legitimate issue with being forced back to HKG on a package far inferior to that of their contemporaries still in KA (on full housing and ten weeks leave).
As far as people hired directly on a base, I have not met many who did not understand from day one that they were joining a HKG carrier and might reasonably expect to spend some of their career there. However, that understanding came hand in hand with the implication that the crewmember would have a say in when this happened (for an upgrade for example, or when kids reach a certain age), and it went without saying that it would be on a full expat package (there was nothing else at the time).
In summary I think Underpants is spot on: disaster averted for now but we need to work with the company find a solution acceptable to all of those involved in order to keep the positions viable.
MD
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Sigh.
I'll make this brief.
I do NOT actually believe what I wrote.
It was a joke. Sarcasm. Satire. A p!ss-take of the anti-AOA idiocracy that pervades this forum.
Vishnu on a hamster-powered cheese cracker. I can't be any clearer than that.
I do NOT actually believe what I wrote.
It was a joke. Sarcasm. Satire. A p!ss-take of the anti-AOA idiocracy that pervades this forum.
Vishnu on a hamster-powered cheese cracker. I can't be any clearer than that.
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Let's not lose sight of the big picture: CX has once again acted in a precipitous manner, without appreciating or considering all the relevant laws, the unintended consequences and basically demonstrating just how lacking in competence they truly are. It defies belief that year after year (decade after decade!) they always manage to get it exactly 'wrong'.
To those of you who still have a chance of a proper, stable and enjoyable career elsewhere, don't waste any more of your time with this venal outfit.
To those of you who still have a chance of a proper, stable and enjoyable career elsewhere, don't waste any more of your time with this venal outfit.
SUPERFROZO
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So does this all mean the DFO gets his LHR base later this year? I am sure it's all unrelated
If you,
a. are a member of the HKAOA and
b. had a quick read of the Forums, then..
what Superfrozo wrote would make perfect sense.
. Superfrozo has just be given a long list of horrific diseases to contemplate as penance for upsetting your sensistivities.
If you,
a. are a member of the HKAOA and
b. had a quick read of the Forums, then..
what Superfrozo wrote would make perfect sense.
. Superfrozo has just be given a long list of horrific diseases to contemplate as penance for upsetting your sensistivities.
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Does anybody know where Lowmaxer lives?