Current Management
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Current Management
When Everybody’s Responsibility Becomes Nobody’s Responsibility
Awhile back I read a post about breaking silos of responsibility. These rigid territories of responsibility tend to increase the overhead of communication. In general, I agree with the mentality of fluid responsibility amongst agile self-organizing teams. However, the dangerous side of fluid teams must be explored before allowing a team ‘off the leash’.
Even in the most disciplined teams, tasks belonging to ‘everyone’ actually belong to ‘no one’. In these situations it is commonly heard “I thought you were going to take care of that!” I call this an example of Hippie Socialism.
Hippie Socialism occurs when we sing songs around the campfire, speaking of a society based on even distributions of wealth and trade services. But what happens after the hippie love-fest campfire dies and ways are parted. Damn straight, it becomes a dog-eat-dog world again and the ideals are disregarded for tactics of survival.
Is this any different in a business environment? We have project kick-off meetings where we envision future success as a team. We promise everyone will share responsibilities and be a whistle blower as needed. In the end we tend to silo ourselves so that we may finish the responsibilities we were explicitly tasked. There is little or no time to work on the community tasks, or to help your neighbor. As a result, we are still left with communication overhead and unfinished tasks.
Managers with strong leadership skills but no domain knowledge tend to run responsibility silos so they may ‘black box’ or cover their weaknesses. Managers with strong knowledge but are weak leaders tend to run hippie communes. Without strong leaders to help find the sweet spot on agile teams just beware that agile self-organizing teams can be equally as dangerous as silo teams.
Does this sound like anyone we know...
Awhile back I read a post about breaking silos of responsibility. These rigid territories of responsibility tend to increase the overhead of communication. In general, I agree with the mentality of fluid responsibility amongst agile self-organizing teams. However, the dangerous side of fluid teams must be explored before allowing a team ‘off the leash’.
Even in the most disciplined teams, tasks belonging to ‘everyone’ actually belong to ‘no one’. In these situations it is commonly heard “I thought you were going to take care of that!” I call this an example of Hippie Socialism.
Hippie Socialism occurs when we sing songs around the campfire, speaking of a society based on even distributions of wealth and trade services. But what happens after the hippie love-fest campfire dies and ways are parted. Damn straight, it becomes a dog-eat-dog world again and the ideals are disregarded for tactics of survival.
Is this any different in a business environment? We have project kick-off meetings where we envision future success as a team. We promise everyone will share responsibilities and be a whistle blower as needed. In the end we tend to silo ourselves so that we may finish the responsibilities we were explicitly tasked. There is little or no time to work on the community tasks, or to help your neighbor. As a result, we are still left with communication overhead and unfinished tasks.
Managers with strong leadership skills but no domain knowledge tend to run responsibility silos so they may ‘black box’ or cover their weaknesses. Managers with strong knowledge but are weak leaders tend to run hippie communes. Without strong leaders to help find the sweet spot on agile teams just beware that agile self-organizing teams can be equally as dangerous as silo teams.
Does this sound like anyone we know...
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Pratt Whitney,
You may be surprised (possibly not) to hear that your post is one of the VERY few that appear on this website that possesses element of intellect an insight.
Unfortunately, and in many ways not unlike current governmental administrations, airline management is self serving and protective of their ill gotten positions instead of being progressive for the good of the firm and as a consequence the benefit of the employees and thereby the customers.
I admire your perspective and look forward to some more pearls.
Best
fr
You may be surprised (possibly not) to hear that your post is one of the VERY few that appear on this website that possesses element of intellect an insight.
Unfortunately, and in many ways not unlike current governmental administrations, airline management is self serving and protective of their ill gotten positions instead of being progressive for the good of the firm and as a consequence the benefit of the employees and thereby the customers.
I admire your perspective and look forward to some more pearls.
Best
fr
Last edited by flap relief; 30th Sep 2013 at 18:27.
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Your post reinforces the same thing that was said in the HC audit report a few years back. Cathay was told too many decisions are made by committee - basically, not enough leaders.
JS's reply to that was that he prefers to get various input in order to make a better decision. So basically, no change to the lack of leadership.
With leadership comes accountability, therefore, their way is to implicate others so the blame can be spread around a bit when it inevitably goes pear shaped.
Silver freighters, coffin-class, Navtech - any one person identified for these terrible decisions? No, they just simply disappear and their backers get promoted. Winning formula...
JS's reply to that was that he prefers to get various input in order to make a better decision. So basically, no change to the lack of leadership.
With leadership comes accountability, therefore, their way is to implicate others so the blame can be spread around a bit when it inevitably goes pear shaped.
Silver freighters, coffin-class, Navtech - any one person identified for these terrible decisions? No, they just simply disappear and their backers get promoted. Winning formula...
Stretching the imagination a bit here but - would you follow any of this lot into battle if your life depended on it - GMA/ GMF/DFO. ???
They are there because nobody else can be bothered and good luck to them. Please don't confuse them with any form of real leadership. GMO is the exception to the rule and I would follow him most places.
They are there because nobody else can be bothered and good luck to them. Please don't confuse them with any form of real leadership. GMO is the exception to the rule and I would follow him most places.
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Arfur,
We are no longer officers and the OM has closed, those remaining have had their terms and conditions reviewed and are at best NCOs. Any belief that a CN in CX has any higher standing than a Sgt in the USAF is sadly mistaken. Airmen are ordered into battle, or court martialled, just as we are intimidated and ordered to complete illegal and fatigue inducing rosters.
We are no longer officers and the OM has closed, those remaining have had their terms and conditions reviewed and are at best NCOs. Any belief that a CN in CX has any higher standing than a Sgt in the USAF is sadly mistaken. Airmen are ordered into battle, or court martialled, just as we are intimidated and ordered to complete illegal and fatigue inducing rosters.
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PW's starting post is not original, but then so little is ......
When Everybody?s Responsibility Becomes Nobody?s Responsibility
When Everybody?s Responsibility Becomes Nobody?s Responsibility
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ordered to complete illegal and fatigue inducing rosters.
FUB, are you really saying you have completed an illegal roster?
More fool you if you have; it is you that is putting your licence in jeopardy.
If you believe you have been rostered an illegal flight, tell crew control and if they say it is legal ask for it in writing. If they refuse, ask for the supervisor and repeat your request. If he refuses ask for the duty flight ops manager.
If he refuses and/or you are still in doubt tell the AOA - before the flight, not afterwards.
If fatigue inducing, I take it you know what an ASR-F is?
More fool you if you have; it is you that is putting your licence in jeopardy.
If you believe you have been rostered an illegal flight, tell crew control and if they say it is legal ask for it in writing. If they refuse, ask for the supervisor and repeat your request. If he refuses ask for the duty flight ops manager.
If he refuses and/or you are still in doubt tell the AOA - before the flight, not afterwards.
If fatigue inducing, I take it you know what an ASR-F is?
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It is actually illegal to operate a flight that you think will cause your fatigue level to be a flight safety issue at any time during that flight even if you are well rested prior to the duty. Let me guess, you have never done that right, gone to work for an all night two sector flight getting back at lunchtime or are you so awesome that even when exhausted your better than most so don't think its an issue?
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Not carried out an illegal roster. However, have been offered a few.
For the uninitiated use the words to cc "I don't have the FTLs in front of me right now, send me a groupwise (or email) to state that what you are asking is legal." This will result is someone else doing the duty.
For the uninitiated use the words to cc "I don't have the FTLs in front of me right now, send me a groupwise (or email) to state that what you are asking is legal." This will result is someone else doing the duty.
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FUB
Great advice for those weak hands who let CC ride roughshod.
Personally, I like the odd stoush with CC just to keep them on their toes, then invariably I get the supervisor anyway to clarify. In writing.
Another good one, when you are informed that your O day just "has" to be turned into reserve, because "you are the only one available" is this:
"Are you confirming with me that my Domestic Day Off is being arbitrarily turned into reserve?"
"Slurp, slurp, aaaaaahhh, yes, you are the only one available..."
"The ONLY one?"
"Yes"
"No one else on reserve?
"No"
"That would be interesting. Perhaps CAD should be informed that you have NO reserve coverage for flights and are turning crew days off into duties"
"Aaaaaaahh....caw you ba'."
.....phone hangs up. Back to O Day
Just stand up to these w@nkers. They just try and bully. Throw it back at them.
Personally, I like the odd stoush with CC just to keep them on their toes, then invariably I get the supervisor anyway to clarify. In writing.
Another good one, when you are informed that your O day just "has" to be turned into reserve, because "you are the only one available" is this:
"Are you confirming with me that my Domestic Day Off is being arbitrarily turned into reserve?"
"Slurp, slurp, aaaaaahhh, yes, you are the only one available..."
"The ONLY one?"
"Yes"
"No one else on reserve?
"No"
"That would be interesting. Perhaps CAD should be informed that you have NO reserve coverage for flights and are turning crew days off into duties"
"Aaaaaaahh....caw you ba'."
.....phone hangs up. Back to O Day
Just stand up to these w@nkers. They just try and bully. Throw it back at them.
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AFTLS
This seems to be the issue here. Write to and bombard [email protected]. They will query CX or KA or AHK about any issue. Ask for verification of the rules. Make sure you get the rule CC is using. Make every ASR and ASR-F an MOR.
I wrote on another post but I'll say it here as well; On the 15th, print/ download your roster. Fly that roster and if they try and change it, call unfit. Don't answer the phone-ever! They do NOT work with the crews. They only follow their rules. Follow yours! Try and apply the KISS principle.
I wrote on another post but I'll say it here as well; On the 15th, print/ download your roster. Fly that roster and if they try and change it, call unfit. Don't answer the phone-ever! They do NOT work with the crews. They only follow their rules. Follow yours! Try and apply the KISS principle.
Yeah that will work!!! Not
I've never worked in an Airline or had friends work in an Airline in the past 25 years that doesn't suffer roster changes at some point in the month.
It's Aviation, **** happens. Get over it or get another job.
I've never worked in an Airline or had friends work in an Airline in the past 25 years that doesn't suffer roster changes at some point in the month.
It's Aviation, **** happens. Get over it or get another job.
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Nitpicker,
If you think CX is typical with its quantity of roster changes, then you simply don't know very much about the industry. Most airlines have much more stable rosters because they have adequate reserves on all their bases. The standby crew members take up all the slack in the operation so the line holders can be mostly unaffected. Surely, you must know this.
CXorcist
If you think CX is typical with its quantity of roster changes, then you simply don't know very much about the industry. Most airlines have much more stable rosters because they have adequate reserves on all their bases. The standby crew members take up all the slack in the operation so the line holders can be mostly unaffected. Surely, you must know this.
CXorcist
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I used to work at an airline and I can count on two fingers in three years how many roster changes I had during the month. If we were cancelled, we weren't put back on reserve. We were also pay protected for any duty that was taken for weather, mx, etc. My B Scale contract is 30 pages long. 30!!!!
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What responsibility?
Why write to the CAD? They are nothing more than CX footstools. Nobody has the balls to cross the Swires, including the CAD. The CAD are Swires footstools. Responsibility and accountability are fluffy words, thrown about by the DFO's department when it suits. We are talking Hong Kong culture here and money talks.
Keep dreaming about the day when a fair days pay equates to a fair days work, no such thing. It's all a out the mighty bonus.
Keep dreaming about the day when a fair days pay equates to a fair days work, no such thing. It's all a out the mighty bonus.
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[QUOTE] Trip cancelled? No problem, either go home (with pay) to spend time with the family or pick up an open trip for extra cash. [QUOTE]
Had this conversation in front of Hoyland and a couple of GC members.
Sadly, it fell upon deaf ears......or perhaps it's my English proficiency level not up to par as theirs
Had this conversation in front of Hoyland and a couple of GC members.
Sadly, it fell upon deaf ears......or perhaps it's my English proficiency level not up to par as theirs
