Why a ban? This is why.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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The 700 pre-93' guys are known as "A" scalers, and are predominantly captains. The more senior guys, ie about 40% of those have basic salaries starting at arount HK$ 150,000 / month.Overtime etc can take this amount to around HK$250,000 on a good month. Add to this gererous company provident funds, housing allowances, kids education allowance, first class travel, and you can see why our "A" scalers are so unhappy.Its a dogs life, having to survive as an ex-pat these days.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Prisoner, your post is a complete lie. The "top 40%" do not have salaries anywhere near HK$150,000 pm, nor does overtime add significantly to that - perhaps 5% to 10% certainly nowhere near HK$100,000.
The only pilots earning the salary you mentioned are the managers, who set their own rates.
The only pilots earning the salary you mentioned are the managers, who set their own rates.
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Prisoner, as you are well aware the discontent lies not with the senior guys. Most of them are appalled by recent management decisions, however, they are generally still comfortable with the, recently reduced but acceptable, levels of pay. You have been very misinformed, or are deliberately spreading disinformation, about actual take home salaries. The sums you mention only apply to the very highest levels of management and are nothing to do with overtime. Please tell us how many pilots earn any significant overtime right now? No rephrase that, please tell us how many A scale pilots earn ANY overtime right now.
The worrying thing for you people must be that the most discontented and militant pilots in this company are the young guys. Pilots who joined after 1994 on sub standard COS are in the main very, very disillusioned with our company. How do you plan to get them back on side? Something which you must do. You cannot sack 65% of the pilot workforce and replace them with compliant new joiners despite what 411A might claim, by the way is he advising CX management right now? It certainly appears that way! Management must do something to sort this problem out. This has to be one of the biggest human resource problem any airline has ever had to face. Your performance to date is very depressing. Please do something very soon to save this magnificent airline before it really is too late.
The worrying thing for you people must be that the most discontented and militant pilots in this company are the young guys. Pilots who joined after 1994 on sub standard COS are in the main very, very disillusioned with our company. How do you plan to get them back on side? Something which you must do. You cannot sack 65% of the pilot workforce and replace them with compliant new joiners despite what 411A might claim, by the way is he advising CX management right now? It certainly appears that way! Management must do something to sort this problem out. This has to be one of the biggest human resource problem any airline has ever had to face. Your performance to date is very depressing. Please do something very soon to save this magnificent airline before it really is too late.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Paul-st,-I, 1st year "B" scale captain basic salary is
H$ 98,375.00 /month.Now, lets consider the fact that a first year A scale f/o earns about the same as an 8th year "B" scale captain, how much does a 20yr senior "A"scale skipper net?? Your answers accepted on a rather massive postage stamp.
H$ 98,375.00 /month.Now, lets consider the fact that a first year A scale f/o earns about the same as an 8th year "B" scale captain, how much does a 20yr senior "A"scale skipper net?? Your answers accepted on a rather massive postage stamp.
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Daxon:
Your reply, while accurate, is incomplete.
The Prisoner mentioned OT - and what about other allowances, such as Housing, Schooling, and then there must be a Pension Fund somewhere, too?
It would really help if we could get all the figures, rather than piecemeal information.
Your reply, while accurate, is incomplete.
The Prisoner mentioned OT - and what about other allowances, such as Housing, Schooling, and then there must be a Pension Fund somewhere, too?
It would really help if we could get all the figures, rather than piecemeal information.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Alpha Leader
Thank you for confirming the veracity of my posting. Presumably you also have the salary scales?
The idea was simply to state a matter of fact, in support of St Paul Island, rather than the usual wild conjecture seen so often.
Could I suggest you speak to CPA directly with your request? You certainly will not be getting the figures from me and let's face it, I'm only on one of the myriad Conditions of Service.
Thank you.
Thank you for confirming the veracity of my posting. Presumably you also have the salary scales?
The idea was simply to state a matter of fact, in support of St Paul Island, rather than the usual wild conjecture seen so often.
Could I suggest you speak to CPA directly with your request? You certainly will not be getting the figures from me and let's face it, I'm only on one of the myriad Conditions of Service.
Thank you.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Daxon,
My point is that in this eternal debate there are all these bits and pieces of information flying around, and very few people actually get the whole picture.
Salary, as in most jobs, is only part of the overall compensation, and in many cases, might be less than half of the total annual package.
I think it was only about two months ago that the A-Scale package was published (uncontested, I recall) in the SCMP, so those with local knowledge might be up to speed on the info. Unfortunately, I did not keep the article (as it was hardcopy).
The bottom line, however, was that the A-Scalers would have little to complain about in financial and material comforts, whereas the case for B-Scalers would be quite different.
My point is that in this eternal debate there are all these bits and pieces of information flying around, and very few people actually get the whole picture.
Salary, as in most jobs, is only part of the overall compensation, and in many cases, might be less than half of the total annual package.
I think it was only about two months ago that the A-Scale package was published (uncontested, I recall) in the SCMP, so those with local knowledge might be up to speed on the info. Unfortunately, I did not keep the article (as it was hardcopy).
The bottom line, however, was that the A-Scalers would have little to complain about in financial and material comforts, whereas the case for B-Scalers would be quite different.
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if you were serious about getting the 49ers reinstated you would have called a full strike. if you have enough members you will do serius harm, and managment will need to capitulate. Otherwise it is safe to assume, that the other members are currently enjoying thier salary, and the 5% they hand over is being met my increased overtime
Jon
Jon
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Lashing for Cathay on sackings
By Keith Wallis
HK iMail
SENIOR management at Cathay Pacific Airways and parent company Swire Group have been strongly condemned by an international pilots' group for sacking 51 pilots last year in a festering labour wrangle.
The firings were "unjust'', "unwarranted' and designed to intimidate, the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations (Ifalpa) said in a resolution passed yesterday at the end of a five-day meeting in Oslo, Norway.
The group, which represents 114,000 pilots worldwide, also urged Hong Kong's de facto flag carrier to reconsider a request by the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers' Association (HKAOA) for an independent mediator to settle the dispute.
It said Cathay Pacific's refusal to agree on an impartial judge "is the latest blow in nine years of conflict between Cathay Pacific's pilots and its management, making it the longest-running labour dispute in Asia''.
HKAOA general secretary John Findlay said Cathay's decision not to agree to a mediator was extremely disappointing and perplexing.
"Unfortunately, it also demonstrates a backward and combative management culture to Cathay's investors, employees, customers and the Hong Kong community,'' he said.
The 51 aircrew were sacked after working to contract as part of a campaign by the HKAOA to seek negotiations with Cathay Pacific over rostering, work practices and benefits in a row that has simmered since 1993.
Ifalpa president Ted Murphy said the group supported the pilots and the HKAOA "because the risk of allowing this kind of activity to persist can only result in negative implications for the aviation industry worldwide, whilst seriously damaging Cathay''.
The Ifalpa resolution comes after the International Labour Organisation launched an investigation into Cathay Pacific's practices and treatment of its pilots during the dispute.
Nobody from Cathay Pacific was immediately available to comment.
HK iMail
SENIOR management at Cathay Pacific Airways and parent company Swire Group have been strongly condemned by an international pilots' group for sacking 51 pilots last year in a festering labour wrangle.
The firings were "unjust'', "unwarranted' and designed to intimidate, the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations (Ifalpa) said in a resolution passed yesterday at the end of a five-day meeting in Oslo, Norway.
The group, which represents 114,000 pilots worldwide, also urged Hong Kong's de facto flag carrier to reconsider a request by the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers' Association (HKAOA) for an independent mediator to settle the dispute.
It said Cathay Pacific's refusal to agree on an impartial judge "is the latest blow in nine years of conflict between Cathay Pacific's pilots and its management, making it the longest-running labour dispute in Asia''.
HKAOA general secretary John Findlay said Cathay's decision not to agree to a mediator was extremely disappointing and perplexing.
"Unfortunately, it also demonstrates a backward and combative management culture to Cathay's investors, employees, customers and the Hong Kong community,'' he said.
The 51 aircrew were sacked after working to contract as part of a campaign by the HKAOA to seek negotiations with Cathay Pacific over rostering, work practices and benefits in a row that has simmered since 1993.
Ifalpa president Ted Murphy said the group supported the pilots and the HKAOA "because the risk of allowing this kind of activity to persist can only result in negative implications for the aviation industry worldwide, whilst seriously damaging Cathay''.
The Ifalpa resolution comes after the International Labour Organisation launched an investigation into Cathay Pacific's practices and treatment of its pilots during the dispute.
Nobody from Cathay Pacific was immediately available to comment.
