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Tales from Kai Tak - 15 Years On

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Tales from Kai Tak - 15 Years On

Old 23rd Mar 2020, 11:46
  #81 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by cabbages View Post
KA = Dragonair (now cathaydragon)
KE = Korean Air

You're welcome.
Thanks for the correction. In my defence it was well over twenty years ago.
I never had cause to fly with either airline so never had cause to look at their tickets or associated flight boards. I heard the incident on the tower frequency and watched it happen.... plus a few other surprising and rather worrying radio calls from various airline pilots while I was working out there.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 15:14
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Meikleour View Post
Airbubba: You departed 13 with the runway 31 ILS tuned and displayed. Therefore it was not a backbeam procedure and the sensing remained in the correct sense.

You were flying the 31 ILS AWAY from the airfield! Happy days and this was carried out on every check in the sim.
I don't know what we did, put in a reciprocal course when it should have been the front course or maybe flipped some B/C switch somewhere. Whatever it was when you turned toward the needle it got further away and the apartment buildings kept getting closer. The controller made a polite inquiry about our heading.

Just a bunch of country boys trying to earn a livin'.


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Old 27th Mar 2020, 08:36
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by anxiao View Post
I remember the American pilot story, it may even have been back to Pan Am days, but it certainly happened. Smartest move of the day by that pilot, respect.
Another popular American pilot story, didn't hear it myself but was widely reported.

United/Northwest/ Pan Am inbound to Kai Tak is being given an enormous amount of grief by HKG local lady ATC controller. The local controllers where extremely efficient but maybe were a little cold and aggressive in how they barked and snapped orders. In this case the lady had just spent a full minute chastising this crew for slow reaction to her demands when a Southern states drawl came over the air, "say ma'am, was I married to you once?"
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 20:34
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I remember base training when converting onto the -400 from the L-1011 - July 1990 with Adrian Bayley. It was a calm, clear day, with lots of blue sky and great visibility that you had in those days. I completed 7 landings in 1 hour 25 minutes. We took off on runway 13 just as the runway opened, went out to TH, and Adrian did a big, quite aggressive wingover, which surprised the hell out of me, and I made a visual approach to 31. After a touch and go we went out into the harbour straight towards Green Island, I did another big, pulling "g", wingover and made a visual approach to 13. I do remember Adrian pressing buttons quickly on the FMS to keep things going, which coming from the clocks, dials and elastic bands of the Tri-Star went by me in a blur. We kept going until final landing on 31, taxied up to the terminal, Bay 1 I think, parked and went straight to the Aero Club for a debrief - we drank champagne, which was customary in those days, got shit-faced, talked crap and enjoyed each others company. What I will always remember is how light and responsive the -400 was. Flying so low in the harbour, looking at mortals flats go by, reefing the aircraft about and both grinning at the whole lark of it all, as we played the sport of kings will always stay with me. Those were the days of fun flying, skill and no excuses.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 00:14
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely love it !! Brings back memories of the same type of day. Came back wondering if there was a low-level attack session in the sim package for the type rating. Also taught me what awesome stick and rudder pilots I had the privilege to be trained by. They knew how to fly....weren't so worried with the "book" when it came to the letter of the procedure. Bring back Kai Tak !
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 02:25
  #86 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by John MacCalman View Post
Hi Folks

Is coming up on 15 years since I made my "Tales from Kai Tak" radio documentary. To mark this I've made the audio available on YouTube so it can reach a wider audience.

For those youngsters who might not know this is what it is about...
A Radio Documentary about landing at the old Hong Kong Airport with contributions from pilots who flew this challenging approach on the IGS-13 making a sharp right at the checkerboard at 500ft over the Kowloon buildings with just seconds to line up and land on the runway often in treacherous weather conditions. Over 1000 hours production time went in this project which features three flight deck landing (one in a simulator training for an engine fire on take off. Contributors include captains David West, Dick Duxbury, Chip Crosby, Ralph Requa, Barry Schiff, Manny Puerta, Tom Erikson, Chip Crosby, Randy Sohn, Tim Olson, Jim Hancock, Nick Bristow, and from Hong Kong Airport GM Tony Norman. Produced by John MacCalman and first broadcast on Radio Clyde in 1998 with special thanks to British Airways, Northwest Airlines (now part of Delta), Cathay Pacific and the most excellent team at Hong Kong Air Traffic Control.

So that we are not going over old ground, previous threads can be found here and here.
It's really good that this thread is still alive. I had such a wonderful time making the radio programme and had outstanding help from the aviation community and especially PPRuNe I am still travelling the world as a pax and still have the greatest respect for all the drivers. Nice to go back down memory lane. My favourite quote from one captain was when on IGS-13 he knew it was time to make that final right hand turn as he headed towards the checkerboard when his co-pilot started to sweat.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 02:48
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I recall some rather "sporty" visual island arrivals in the Classic. Screaming past the south side of HK island, idle thrust, F1, F5, F10, F20, full speed brakes, crank it around the peak, high descent rate, gear down as you hit stonecutters....final flap, and maybe just "touch" the thrust levers at a 100' to give it a bit of respectability. Stabilised Approach....uh huh. Off to the Cathay Club. Job done. A bit sad to think of what we've lost.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 03:26
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Originally Posted by Hugo Peroni the IV View Post
and out of courtesy the FO and the spiky-haired kid in the jump seat pretend they give a s*** about you and the good old days!
See, this is what you get when parents stopped smacking their brats, told you so!
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 10:51
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
See, this is what you get when parents stopped smacking their brats, told you so!
So true! Respect for one’s elders, genuine or not, is disappearing rapidly. Technology is the new replacement for experience, nevermind that it doesn’t always work and often makes everything more complicated than it needs to be. God bless paper, pencils, the 3:1 rule, visual approaches, basic autopilot modes, and weather radars in manual mode.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 11:11
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Talking of technology, when Cathay got the 747-400 the little matter of a 13IGS Go Around reared it’s’ head.
There you were at 675 ft in cloud on an instrument approach towards a hill! Nothing seen!!!!
We had to press GA switches, disengage autopilot and flight director, turn 47 degrees right and commence climb, retract flaps to 20 and select gear up. Follow up turn with heading bug and then re-engage autopilot and FD. What modes?? Oh, and tell ATC.
Easy really!
if you hadn’t thought about and briefed it accordingly, you could end up risking all on an unusual trip behind the tower and perilously close to some cumulo granite!
When men were men.........

Last edited by Arfur Dent; 28th Mar 2020 at 12:28.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 11:28
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greenlitemaxthr wrote;
....went straight to the Aero Club for a debrief - we drank champagne, which was customary in those days, got shit-faced, talked crap and enjoyed each others company...

...or, if it was too early for the aero club the police club across the road ( somebody somehow always had a key).All done on an honour system with usually far more $$ left than had been consumed.

The ‘got shit-faced, talked crap and enjoyed each others company‘ sums up those halcyon days.

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Old 28th Mar 2020, 11:37
  #92 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Arfur Dent View Post
Talking of technology, when Cathay got the 747-400 the little matter of a 13IGS Go Around reared it’s’ head.
There you were at 675 ft in cloud on an instrument approach towards a hill! Nothing seen!!!!
We had to press GA switches, disengage autopilot and flight director, turn 47 degrees right and commence climb, retract flaps to 20 and select gear up. Follow up turn with heading bug and then re-engage autopilot and FD.
Easy really!
if you hadn’t thought about and briefed it accordingly, you could end up risking all on an unusual trip behind the tower and perilously close to some cumulo granite!
When men were men.........
Even more “sporting” with a strong south westerly wind, which required a steeper right turn
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 17:17
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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....and the bartender "Ah Wing" at the Cathay Club....always remembered what you owed....weeks later...and never had anything but a smile and a polite nod. Gentleman, and miss his friendship and confidence. Halcyon days.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 05:30
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Does anyone know the date when the VOR started operating at Cheung Chau?
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 15:15
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Originally Posted by Arfur Dent View Post
Talking of technology, when Cathay got the 747-400 the little matter of a 13IGS Go Around reared it’s’ head.
There you were at 675 ft in cloud on an instrument approach towards a hill! Nothing seen!!!!
We had to press GA switches, disengage autopilot and flight director, turn 47 degrees right and commence climb, retract flaps to 20 and select gear up. Follow up turn with heading bug and then re-engage autopilot and FD. What modes?? Oh, and tell ATC.
Easy really!
if you hadn’t thought about and briefed it accordingly, you could end up risking all on an unusual trip behind the tower and perilously close to some cumulo granite!
When men were men.........
...Aye ..... got more than one of those T-shirts.

Turned onto the IGS one night in a typhoon, with a wind at 4,500 FEET straight off the mountains at over 80kts, From memory we went around well before 2,500 feet and wrestled the beast around the corner and through the gap, diverted to TPE, sat waiting for a stand for 4 hours (never before or since have I seen so many wide-bodies), got on stand and two hours later the pax were allowed into the departure lounge where they sat till the next morning some 7/8 or so hours later. We sat in a little mini bus for about an hour and half to something like a bed and breakfast, shared rooms, no change of clothes or wash kit (couldn't get baggage off the aircraft), had about 4-5 hours sleep and then back to the airport. Smelly flight back to HKG. Ehm where days !!!
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 15:16
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Wasn't his name "Wing" - or at least that was the name we all used :-)
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 21:44
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Very happy days. Remember Adrian well, great guy and a lot of fun. I would never compare the IGS and r/w13 to landing an F4 onto a heaving Ark Royal but it could be challenging but easy on a calm day and you were familiar. A relatively simpler time associated with youth and the excitement then of living in Hong Kong. A nice esprit de corps down route which I suppose has changed unsurprising after a series of managerial outrages.

cheers
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 18:04
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
Even more “sporting” with a strong south westerly wind, which required a steeper right turn
Earlier turn.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 20:40
  #99 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Good Business Sense View Post
Earlier turn.
Technically correct, but in practical terms, it didn't always happen like that if the cloud was very low. I was always intrigued how the Kai Tak ATIS never seemed to broadcast a cloudbase below the approach minima....say no more.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:29
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Guys,
I passed close by the Checker Board yesterday, it's looking very sad. I remember a thread perhaps 5 years ago where one of our merry band was trying to get a team together to 'renovate' it, but was stonewalled by bureaucracy. Is the originator of that thread still on these boards?
I am in contact with a friendly LegCo member (ex-CX) who is going to have a go at getting permission at a political level, citing Hong Kong heritage as a case for getting the job done.
If it gets the go-ahead, we will be looking for volunteers, preferably with real rock-climbing experience (its almost vertical) and donations to buy paint (I know these are hard times), the thing is bloody huge!
Cheers... MR
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