HKG ATC out of control
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Phraseology
Bekolblockage, was it you who created the phrase :-
"I know you think you heard what I said, but what you heard was not what I meant"?
Roger, Wilco and Out.
"I know you think you heard what I said, but what you heard was not what I meant"?
Roger, Wilco and Out.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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CLK has (particularly on the North apron) a complex bay pattern that at times allows only one pushback at a time
And....
Is the same idiot going to make the same mistake with the new terminals currently being built and again with the terminals associated with the third runway!
Tell them to look at ICN double and triple taxiways and even the T5 at LHR has double taxiways. There would be a serious loss of face
Sir Norman Foster designed the look of the terminal not the airport layout I hope.
Last edited by SMOC; 15th Jun 2012 at 00:06.
Is the same idiot going to make the same mistake with the new terminals currently being built and again with the terminals associated with the third runway!
http://www.hkairport2030.com/en/info...ay_Eng_Ch6.pdf
Concave surfaces on the outside of terminals?
Every pushback conflicts with something else.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Back into Hong Kong today....Minimum Clean at 285 miles to run, 285 for god's sake! Then back to 250, then to 210 and hold at Betty. Fifteen minutes or so in the hold followed by direct to Mango at 250 kts. Then widening radar vectors and 230kts. Then 210 kts to maintain until just before River. More speed control on the approach.
All this with ONE other aircraft on TCAS and periods of over five minutes with no other transmissions AT ALL on frequency.
Far be it for me to second guess ATC but seriously? Wow, you guys are SUPERSTARS! The likes of Heathrow and JFK, Frankfurt etc, would be in awe of this kind of efficiency and capability! A 3hr20 flight turned into a little under 4hr30! Thanks goodness the price of oil has dropped, 'cos we're gonna be using a lot more of it!!
All this with ONE other aircraft on TCAS and periods of over five minutes with no other transmissions AT ALL on frequency.
Far be it for me to second guess ATC but seriously? Wow, you guys are SUPERSTARS! The likes of Heathrow and JFK, Frankfurt etc, would be in awe of this kind of efficiency and capability! A 3hr20 flight turned into a little under 4hr30! Thanks goodness the price of oil has dropped, 'cos we're gonna be using a lot more of it!!
Dear HKG ATC:
Most of us are on overtime due to my airline's crew shortages resulting from poor planning and sub-standard packages for new joiners. 'Min clean' from the FIR boundary is fine by me, and I personally prefer at least twice around the hold. One for the Hong Kong and base area tax, and the rest for myself.
Capitalism at its finest.
To my overtime,
C.D.
P.S. Love the quiet frequencies, I can have a quick go at the cross-word.
Most of us are on overtime due to my airline's crew shortages resulting from poor planning and sub-standard packages for new joiners. 'Min clean' from the FIR boundary is fine by me, and I personally prefer at least twice around the hold. One for the Hong Kong and base area tax, and the rest for myself.
Capitalism at its finest.
To my overtime,
C.D.
P.S. Love the quiet frequencies, I can have a quick go at the cross-word.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 24th Jun 2012 at 19:33.
But think of the sim time saved when we can now do most of it in the a/c chugging around Betty. Back to the good old days I say! Dart...I'm with you except the FX schedules ain't what they used to be.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 24th Jun 2012 at 17:56.
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Why can't controllers add a conditional statement to their "standby" response. Is that "standby" for 20 seconds.... or 1 minute (while I check with)......or 5 minutes (because of congestion at....) ?
When I ask for a heading (or miles off track), I usually add my estimate for however many miles I expect to need that clearance. e:g "request heading 090 due weather, we will need that for about 60 miles" etc. The Controller (and other aircraft) then know what we are actually planning on doing for the next 5-10 minutes.
When HKG Delivery just says "standby"... you are left totally in suspense.
Does that mean I need to sit on a knife edge, with my thumb poised on the transmit switch... Or, can I sit back and ask the Crew if I can get another cup tea. There are many things on the Flight deck, which take 2 minutes of focused attention. Maybe, if there is a 3-5 minute delay we could get these out of the way.
So many CX flights are used for Line Flying Under Supervision. I will not post the flight numbers here, but they are well known. With a known 5 minute delay, a very effective 2-3 minutes of training could be carried out ... a heads up for the departure, quick review of something in the pre-flight setup etc. But with the flat "standby.....", we all sit still doing nothing.
Personally when they say "standby", I now start the clock for 5 minutes and carry on with the rest of my life. If, after 5 minutes, nothing has happened then I will call " XXX, standing by". I estimate that 10-20% of the time, we have been forgotten about.
It would be really helpful if the Controller would say "Standby.. a couple of minutes", or ""standby, checking with Ground" etc.
There are a couple of Controllers who do add information to their comments. However, I find that these are only the very familiar Expat voices, which we all know over the past 10 or 20 years. From the local voices, there is no concept of understanding that they are dealing with people. For them it is a simple video game. I command "standby" to these video robots, while I line up the next set of issues.
It is just a question of time, before HKG turns into another 3rd world airport, just like PVG or PEK. The concept of the 3rd runway adding any effective capacity is a total joke. HKG Government procrastination and red tape, will kill all of that.
God help us all.
When I ask for a heading (or miles off track), I usually add my estimate for however many miles I expect to need that clearance. e:g "request heading 090 due weather, we will need that for about 60 miles" etc. The Controller (and other aircraft) then know what we are actually planning on doing for the next 5-10 minutes.
When HKG Delivery just says "standby"... you are left totally in suspense.
Does that mean I need to sit on a knife edge, with my thumb poised on the transmit switch... Or, can I sit back and ask the Crew if I can get another cup tea. There are many things on the Flight deck, which take 2 minutes of focused attention. Maybe, if there is a 3-5 minute delay we could get these out of the way.
So many CX flights are used for Line Flying Under Supervision. I will not post the flight numbers here, but they are well known. With a known 5 minute delay, a very effective 2-3 minutes of training could be carried out ... a heads up for the departure, quick review of something in the pre-flight setup etc. But with the flat "standby.....", we all sit still doing nothing.
Personally when they say "standby", I now start the clock for 5 minutes and carry on with the rest of my life. If, after 5 minutes, nothing has happened then I will call " XXX, standing by". I estimate that 10-20% of the time, we have been forgotten about.
It would be really helpful if the Controller would say "Standby.. a couple of minutes", or ""standby, checking with Ground" etc.
There are a couple of Controllers who do add information to their comments. However, I find that these are only the very familiar Expat voices, which we all know over the past 10 or 20 years. From the local voices, there is no concept of understanding that they are dealing with people. For them it is a simple video game. I command "standby" to these video robots, while I line up the next set of issues.
It is just a question of time, before HKG turns into another 3rd world airport, just like PVG or PEK. The concept of the 3rd runway adding any effective capacity is a total joke. HKG Government procrastination and red tape, will kill all of that.
God help us all.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Hi Dan,
Just goes to prove what I always thought. Only the English should be allowed to fly aircraft and control them.
OTB
Just goes to prove what I always thought. Only the English should be allowed to fly aircraft and control them.
OTB
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It is just disgusting the other day we had to do 2 holdings coming in from Sikou weather around the terminal area seems to be ok on our radar..
That is apart from their continious effort to prove you can slow down and expedite your descend at the same in an A330..or the nice "keep up your speed" after a slam dunk approach this new generation just don't seem to get it right.
That is apart from their continious effort to prove you can slow down and expedite your descend at the same in an A330..or the nice "keep up your speed" after a slam dunk approach this new generation just don't seem to get it right.
It is just disgusting the other day we had to do 2 holdings coming in from Sikou weather around the terminal area seems to be ok on our radar
Do have some sympathy for you though when dealing with those who think you can defy the laws of physics. The incongruity of simultaneous track shortening and speed reduction goes over most heads these days.
ADCT Jobs in Jeopardy
While we're at it....
AAHK's new Tower staffing plan. Should have the CSB rubbing their hands with glee.
Media Center - Press Release - Airport Authority Launches "Air Challenge", HKIA's First Board Game - Hong Kong International Airport
AAHK's new Tower staffing plan. Should have the CSB rubbing their hands with glee.
Media Center - Press Release - Airport Authority Launches "Air Challenge", HKIA's First Board Game - Hong Kong International Airport
Join Date: Nov 2000
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HK ATC in a box
Now they can get rid of the Training Section and all those expensive old Gweilos, who refuse to retire, and replace them with kids straight out of Primary School.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hong Kong
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Weather deviation
When I ask for a heading (or miles off track), I usually add my estimate for however many miles I expect to need that clearance. e:g "request heading 090 due weather, we will need that for about 60 miles" etc. The Controller (and other aircraft) then know what we are actually planning on doing for the next 5-10 minutes.
And that indication of the required length of deviation is greatly appreciated by the controller.
Keep it up.
And that indication of the required length of deviation is greatly appreciated by the controller.
Keep it up.
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Climb To
Bekolblockage,
Let me be blunt. I think you are a moron. Are you willing to be your life that no one will ever mistake Climb to 9000 with climb 29000? I am not.
You seem to be doing a good job of illustrating that "Rules are for the compliance of fools and the guidance of wise men"
The only way to avoid this error is to avoid using TO. It is superfulous.
There are many tired and non native English speakers flying around. Why does HK insist on continuing to use this flawed phrase? Me thinks you are the dope who insists on it's use by HK controllers.
Let me be blunt. I think you are a moron. Are you willing to be your life that no one will ever mistake Climb to 9000 with climb 29000? I am not.
You seem to be doing a good job of illustrating that "Rules are for the compliance of fools and the guidance of wise men"
The only way to avoid this error is to avoid using TO. It is superfulous.
There are many tired and non native English speakers flying around. Why does HK insist on continuing to use this flawed phrase? Me thinks you are the dope who insists on it's use by HK controllers.