Young Adelaide Instructors win against CX
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NC,
I am relieved that these guys have someone like you looking out for them. They are very lucky. Couldn't think of anyone I'd rather have in my corner. Thanks for providing clarity with your posts on this issue.
Shame on those who would even consider throwing these guys under the bus. Your disgraceful posts are representative of the worst attributes all too common amongst Cathay pilots.
I am relieved that these guys have someone like you looking out for them. They are very lucky. Couldn't think of anyone I'd rather have in my corner. Thanks for providing clarity with your posts on this issue.
Shame on those who would even consider throwing these guys under the bus. Your disgraceful posts are representative of the worst attributes all too common amongst Cathay pilots.
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NC
A reputable source as always.
Would you be kind enough to answer the questions regarding the "done deal" and the proposed seniority date. Clarification of those two facts should draw this somewhat tawdry thread to a close.
Would you be kind enough to answer the questions regarding the "done deal" and the proposed seniority date. Clarification of those two facts should draw this somewhat tawdry thread to a close.
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What do you mean CX has not breached their contract?
In the same post you say that CX told them 18 months ago that they did not intend to honor the contract...that is a breach of contract!!!
You are the exact reason why a strong union at Cx will never exist, because you only look after your self and cannot see that this is a good thing for the whole of the pilot body.
In the same post you say that CX told them 18 months ago that they did not intend to honor the contract...that is a breach of contract!!!
You are the exact reason why a strong union at Cx will never exist, because you only look after your self and cannot see that this is a good thing for the whole of the pilot body.
Last edited by Frogman1484; 12th Apr 2012 at 06:24.
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frogman & Liam G
Hey Frogman,
Let's say you and I sign a contract saying I will give you $50,000 on 31st December 2013 for a second hand car you have. Now let's say that I tell you today(verbally) that I don't intend to honour that contract...there is no actual breach until we get to the end of 2013 and I fail to pay. Now let's say that from now until the end of 2013 I try to argue that there was no contract - it was all a figment of your imagination! Now you have an idea of how management have approached the issue.
(yes the intent to breach is there - but it is a theoretical breach until the terms are not physically met - it is problematical to pursue a theoretical breach - we have sought advice on this)
Liam G - some negotiations are still in progress so I would rather not comment on what has and has not been offered.
For SOs who think the IPs will be jumping seniority let me make this very clear...they are on the seniority list. They have reserved positions - they have had Deputy FTMs shake their hands and welcome them to CX years ago - they were then seconded back to FTA. If they had not accepted over 3 years of instruction at FTA they would already be in their third year of being SOs on the line. There is no contractual breach in terms of seniority, as long as management honour the contracts!
Let's say you and I sign a contract saying I will give you $50,000 on 31st December 2013 for a second hand car you have. Now let's say that I tell you today(verbally) that I don't intend to honour that contract...there is no actual breach until we get to the end of 2013 and I fail to pay. Now let's say that from now until the end of 2013 I try to argue that there was no contract - it was all a figment of your imagination! Now you have an idea of how management have approached the issue.
(yes the intent to breach is there - but it is a theoretical breach until the terms are not physically met - it is problematical to pursue a theoretical breach - we have sought advice on this)
Liam G - some negotiations are still in progress so I would rather not comment on what has and has not been offered.
For SOs who think the IPs will be jumping seniority let me make this very clear...they are on the seniority list. They have reserved positions - they have had Deputy FTMs shake their hands and welcome them to CX years ago - they were then seconded back to FTA. If they had not accepted over 3 years of instruction at FTA they would already be in their third year of being SOs on the line. There is no contractual breach in terms of seniority, as long as management honour the contracts!
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Frogman, Your out of line and so disrespectful and so wrong about someone whom has spent years working for the benefit of the entire CX pilot group. You should delete your foul mouthed name calling or I suggest the moderator deletes it and rubs you off the forum
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I second that motion...!
Number Cruncher's endless work, devotion and contribution to our cause is unimpeachable.
Only a cur would would use the language you used in your last post! Your post speaks more to why we find ourselves in the position we do than anything else I've seen in some time.
Number Cruncher's endless work, devotion and contribution to our cause is unimpeachable.
Only a cur would would use the language you used in your last post! Your post speaks more to why we find ourselves in the position we do than anything else I've seen in some time.
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NC
Thanks for explaining matters in your typical lucid manner. Understand totally the reasons why you can give no details, but would point out to quite a few posters on this thread that celebrations could be somewhat premature. Equally, fears and dilemmas regarding seniority are presently unfounded.
-rant mode "on".
Whilst I understand the metaphor regarding buying the car, I prefer the analogy that a group of mechanics spend 3 years fixing your car, because the metaphoric wheels ave fallen off, on the understanding of payment upon completion. Nearing completion of the car you express delight in their workmanship, but announce that you have changed your mind and there will be no payment forthcoming. To placate the mechanics (and their fathers and their 1700 colleagues) you rather lamely point to an irrelevant RDO and then when pressed further, shamelessly mutter that "we didn't have a valid contract because I had my fingers crossed behind my back".
At any stage during the 3 years you could say to the mechanics, sorry I got it wrong, here is compensation. But being a person of "quality" you wait until near the end of the project and give them a sign or be fired ultimatum. One mechanic looks at his personal circumstances and signs, the others fight on.
-rant made "off"
-
I shall humbly fall into line behind Raven and third the motion. Whatever have the Romans done for us...eh?
Frogman, step outside and give your head a wobble... There's a good chap.
-rant mode "on".
Whilst I understand the metaphor regarding buying the car, I prefer the analogy that a group of mechanics spend 3 years fixing your car, because the metaphoric wheels ave fallen off, on the understanding of payment upon completion. Nearing completion of the car you express delight in their workmanship, but announce that you have changed your mind and there will be no payment forthcoming. To placate the mechanics (and their fathers and their 1700 colleagues) you rather lamely point to an irrelevant RDO and then when pressed further, shamelessly mutter that "we didn't have a valid contract because I had my fingers crossed behind my back".
At any stage during the 3 years you could say to the mechanics, sorry I got it wrong, here is compensation. But being a person of "quality" you wait until near the end of the project and give them a sign or be fired ultimatum. One mechanic looks at his personal circumstances and signs, the others fight on.
-rant made "off"
-
I shall humbly fall into line behind Raven and third the motion. Whatever have the Romans done for us...eh?
Frogman, step outside and give your head a wobble... There's a good chap.
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Ok I've cleaned up my last post, which remains.
I just cannot understand on how some of you feel done in, when these ex instructors are the real victims here.
How can you even contemplate about complaining about 18 guys who were promised seniority three years ago who were clearly screwed by Cx.
At some stage here we need to stand back and look at the big picture not your individual little picture.
The argument if it is a breach or not is all bull! What would you do or expect to happen if you were one of the instructors in question.
Would you not expect the same treatment?
I just cannot understand on how some of you feel done in, when these ex instructors are the real victims here.
How can you even contemplate about complaining about 18 guys who were promised seniority three years ago who were clearly screwed by Cx.
At some stage here we need to stand back and look at the big picture not your individual little picture.
The argument if it is a breach or not is all bull! What would you do or expect to happen if you were one of the instructors in question.
Would you not expect the same treatment?
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jizzmonkey
Hey Jizz,
the guys were not offered anything outside of their contract. Their contract is slightly different from A scale, Freighter, DEFO or LEP contracts. But did a DEFO accept something outside of the contract just because it was slightly different from everyone else's contract?
The 18 guys have done nothing wrong nor taken any super deal- the jobs were offered worldwide.
The situation is black and white - don't look for any wrong or misdoing amongst the IPs.
cheers
NC
the guys were not offered anything outside of their contract. Their contract is slightly different from A scale, Freighter, DEFO or LEP contracts. But did a DEFO accept something outside of the contract just because it was slightly different from everyone else's contract?
The 18 guys have done nothing wrong nor taken any super deal- the jobs were offered worldwide.
The situation is black and white - don't look for any wrong or misdoing amongst the IPs.
cheers
NC
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Too, too, too funny!
iCadets upset that their job has been de-valued with respect to seniority! And no one told you this kind of thing would happen? HA! I think it's sad for the greater number of CX pilots suffering the degradation of their airline and careers but precisely what these foolish iCadets ignorantly asked for and contributed to.
You did the deal with the devil. Just think.... You have potentially till you're 65 years of age all the while at a continually depreciating lifestyle, and career terms and conditions. Again, all completely what you agreed to and condoned by begging for, lining up for, defending and participating in this farce.
Well done to the Adelaide guys.
iCadets upset that their job has been de-valued with respect to seniority! And no one told you this kind of thing would happen? HA! I think it's sad for the greater number of CX pilots suffering the degradation of their airline and careers but precisely what these foolish iCadets ignorantly asked for and contributed to.
You did the deal with the devil. Just think.... You have potentially till you're 65 years of age all the while at a continually depreciating lifestyle, and career terms and conditions. Again, all completely what you agreed to and condoned by begging for, lining up for, defending and participating in this farce.
Well done to the Adelaide guys.
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The only reason he has taken on his master is because this time his pact with the devil didn't quite work his way. As usual the only reason these guys stand up is for there own selfish reasons -this time their poor little boys. Would they have stood up for an anonymous member of the pilot body - no way.
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Hey, Masta of Disasta. Speak for yourself. Paul B is well liked by many people. I get tired of those who come on this forum and think it appropriate to anonymously slander others. The term 'coward' suffices.
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Masta. My hunch is your problems are more related to your personality (comes across perfectly clearly in your posts) than it is to any perceived duplicity on the part of the checker. What you really need to do is work on doing your job properly. Then the checker won't have anything negative to put in your report will he?
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Originally Posted by Masta of Disasta
I might be a mediocre pilot (aren't we all in CX) but tell it to me in person
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The instructors have not yet won against CX. Slosar is supposed to be sorting it out, but nothing has happened yet.
I am disappointed by some of the post on this thread by those claiming they have been screwed by the agreement CX has with the Instructors.
To me, the real issue here is that the company asked a bunch of guys to 'help the company out' by agreeing to continue instructing longer and delaying their start onto the jets. In exchange for 'helping the company out' they would get seniority and a package including housing. Dick Tall then decided he would honor the contract. He then used a range of despicable intimidation tactics to force these guys onto new, lesser conditions.
The instructors have a contract. The company should honor it.
It is sad that young are fighting the fight the old are too gutless to.
I am disappointed by some of the post on this thread by those claiming they have been screwed by the agreement CX has with the Instructors.
To me, the real issue here is that the company asked a bunch of guys to 'help the company out' by agreeing to continue instructing longer and delaying their start onto the jets. In exchange for 'helping the company out' they would get seniority and a package including housing. Dick Tall then decided he would honor the contract. He then used a range of despicable intimidation tactics to force these guys onto new, lesser conditions.
The instructors have a contract. The company should honor it.
It is sad that young are fighting the fight the old are too gutless to.
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I heard that the solution the SK replacement is proposing is to employ them in HKG, once in HKG give them 12 weeks pay and a termination letter.
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LOOK OUT!
It will be a "loss of confidence" letter...delivered by DHL.