JetStar HK!

[404 Titan]

Soul Planet,

With all due respect to Stanley Ho, he is just as compelled as everyone else to the Hong Kong constitution, the Basic Law.

Whether Jetstar Hong Kong gets up is dependent on their flexibility to change their business structure. Even Mr Orchard's quote in the SMH who by the way is an investment banker not an aviation expert, has said that.

My guess is that any further dilution of Qantas's share in this joint venture will probably make it unviable for them.

[nitpicker330]

It ain't gunna happen..........

[404 Titan]

strewth,

Hong Kong will do what is in the best interest of Hong Kong not Australia. I don't see the HKSAR government changing the law to suite Qantas in the same way I don't see the Australian government changing airline ownership laws there to allow foreign carriers to own a majority in an Australian international airline.


Soul Planet

You think the Ho empire will let this pass so easily?

One could counter that by asking whether the Air China Group and the Hainan Airlines Group will let this pass so easily? There are some very powerful forces on the mainland that want to see this fail, fact.

[Freehills]

Don't forget he is the most powerful man in Macau.

But Jetstar is trying to set up in Hong Kong.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Stanley Ho is also 91 years old, in poor health, and beset with serious family and succession issues. When he goes, Shun Tak will exit stage left.

Ho-Hum(bug)

[willywoonker]

To be quite frank, their so called jetstar hong kong project team is no match for the swire boys. They will definitely get their aoc sooner or later. The real question goes to how much beef do they hv against the swire empire. Forget hka, they are funded by corrupted money.

[Soul planet]

Last month on SCMP:

Jetstar is expected to have a big impact on Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express, as it aims to operate regional routes within five hours of Hong Kong, overlapping with their services.

In 2005, Cathay Pacific Airways filed an objection with the authority to block Hong Kong Oasis Airlines' application. Cathay said Oasis, which went bust in 2008, did not have an air operator's certificate, considered a prerequisite to gaining an ATLA licence. The authority overruled the objection

.

[404 Titan]

Soul planet

Your post has nothing to do with the what we are talking about, ie whether Qantas's application for Jetstar Hong Kong is in compliance with the Basic Law?

For the record Oasis was 100% Hong Kong owned, set up by Hong Kong citizens Raymond & Priscilla Lee.

[Farman Biplane]

TryStar Airways

I heard CX will be launching TryStar Airways as a LCC competitor.

Apparently they will be seeking ex-TriStar legend pilots to man the low cost carrier offshoot, on a two-year only contract between the ages of 65-67, local terms only (A320 rating (payable over 12 monthly instalments taken out of salary) included in package!)

How many takers?

[Soul planet]

Fresh from the terrified kit,

We are currently competing with 107 airlines serving HKIA, 17 of which call themselves low-cost carriers. We are not worried about one more airline entering the market, and indeed we are very much in favour of giving more choice to Hong Kong's consumers.

Yes, indeeeeeed!

[404 Titan]

Soul planet

It goes to show your level of research into the topic at hand if you have only just discovered that quote. Your twisted interpretation of it also shows your opinion is clouded by your understandable hatred of CX management. I suggest you look at it from a point of view of law, i.e. the Basic Law.

[Arrowhead]

MFM?

So you have an airport and a government that is protective of the flag carrier ans so called 5-star "national champion".

And 20 mins away you have a completely underused airport with no visa probs at Macau. The monopoly ends in 2019, and the bridge will be up. It just needs the Macau government to show some will to broaden the aviation market.

Viva Macau and Max were created to boost the weak performance of Air Macau. So the writing is on the wall. Macau wants more air travel.

My money's on nothing in HK, and at least one LCC in Macau in 2019.... Jetstar or Air Asia? We'll just have to wait...

[404 Titan]

Arrowhead

You may be correct as there’s no provision in the Macau Basic Law regarding airline ownership. Air Macau after all is 51% owned by CNAC. I have my doubts though whether Macau will become a viable low cost airport to Hong Kong as the inconvenience and cost of road transport will be a major problem. Once the bridge is finished the cheapest method to travel from Macau Airport to downtown Hong Kong will probably still be by ferry, not by bus. If the HKSAR and the Macau SAR had decided to put in a rail crossing with the new bridge my point of view would be different.

[exitfirstright]

History Lesson Needed

Few of the posts are written by anyone who was in HK when Dragonair went to the HK Government (ALTA) to get their license in the 80's.

Cathay paid for a London based QC (Queens Counsel) to stand up in the hearings to argue their case and tried to say there was no market and therefore no need for Dragonair and a license should be denied.

How short-sighted and plane(!) wrong they were. No visions no courage to face competition, running scared. They said Kai Tak had no room, no airspace, no parking..... sounds familiar? And of course they had to buy Dragonair in the end.

CX you need to appreciate any LLC is not a threat but enhances travel options.

Singapore Airlines didn't suffer, they went from strength to strength and Chagi rose to the occasion expanding facilities and now is about to add the 3rd runway and Terminal 4 while HK debates, ponders, waffles and thinks and does nothing. Its 2022 before the 3rd runway in CLK - at the earliest.

Lets get on an live up to the Asia's World City brand or risk fast becoming just another a China village

PS Cathay who owns your shares????

[Cpt. Underpants]

And of course they had to buy Dragonair in the end

No, not true...they bought a struggling, bankrupt, poorly managed 3 narrow bodied aircraft operation from an inept owner (Ho), and transformed it into a real player.

They traded Dragonair to CNAC just before the handover in order to prevent the State Owned behemoth from swamping HKG post 1997.

They bought it back at a significant premium when CNAC were ordered to divest themselves of their airline interests...

Just the facts, m'aam, just the facts.

[hailer]

Just the facts, Underpants?

Even by the standards of a rumor network Underpants excels himself in terms of inaccuracy. Dragonair did not "buy" Dragonair in 1990 - they took a 40% controlling interest on condition that CX provided critical management services.

The "bankrupt" bit is almost correct - although was not legally declared. There were 5 aircraft at the time not 3. I am unsure who "Ho" is, but there was no shareholder of that name - Sir Y K Pau's shipping empire were the principal shareholder with a significant holding by founder K P Chao's Novel.

The reason for the move had more to do with "real politik" than fear of competition. Serving Taiwan (Taipei was then the most profitable route in the world on a per seat mile basis) and PRC was becoming increasingly difficult. KA became the China Feeder and CX gave up PEK and SHA.

The change of control to CNAC with Cathay left with only a minority shareholding was again driven by politics but the eventual "purchase" by CX of 100% of KA was part of a complex realignment with share cross holdings by CX and AC.

I am intrigued by CNAC not being allowed to hold airline shares - presumably that would be CNAC HK?

All that, of course, is totally irrelevant to the thread about Jetstar! Forgive the side track.

[cxhk]

@exitfirstright

I am not 100% familiar with the dragon air application back in the 80s, but by saying Singapore Airline going strength to strength after Jetstar Asia launch show a clear lack of understand of the situation. Jetstar Asia had made no major profit since launch (balance budget), and their aggressive pricing is there to kill Singapore Airline most profitable routes within Southeast Asia, which is exactly what they have done. Now Singapore Airline without profitable Asian route to support their long haul operations (long haul are often subsidized by profitable regional flight, this also hold true for Qantas in Australia and also for CX in Hong Kong), Singapore Airline have been struggling for the last 4-5 years. If you look at SQ long haul pricing, they can not longer undercut Qantas or Cathay without losing massive amount of money on their long haul routes. Right now if you look at SQ, they are a broken airline, they are trying to start Scoot, but from what I hear, that is not profitable. So if you talk to most analysis right now, they will all rate SQ below CX in future prospect based on challenging marketing environment. And this have always been Qantas plan all along from day one with regards to Jetstar Asia, there have been a few article written about it over the years with regards to CX and SQ pricing and Australian routes, etc... So Qantas plan for Jetstar Asia is not to there to make money, as long as it break even, Qantas is happy, Qantas want to use Jetstar to kill off SQ and CX home market so that CX and SQ can't afford to offer undercut pricing against Qantas long haul. So should HK government allow this to happen? Even Singapore government have deny Jetstar Asia growth and Sin Gov is Part Jetstar Asia shareholders (Deny Jetstar Asia operating A330, the only thing that allow SQ to still remotely compete with Jetstar Asia). So shall HK follow the same mistake that Singapore had made (and realize that they had made)? I sure hope not.

[jacobus]

And that sir, is the most correct post so far...

[snow dragon]

888

• Seems Singapore is plane sailing-Hong kong to follow,

Jetstar’s aspirations to expand in Asia have received a boost after Singapore’s competition watchdog cleared the way for the budget airline’s affiliates to coordinate passenger and cargo services with Qantas.

The Competition Commission of Singapore found that ‘‘some parts’’ of the plans to coordinate services would raise competition concerns but it pointed out that they would be offset by economic benefits to passengers.
The watchdog also emphasised that the presence of budget airlines on routes could ‘‘generally increase the level of competitiveness through increased capacity and reduced prices from existing airlines’’.

With Qantas also stepping up its focus on Asia, the regulatory clearance will allow it to better co-ordinate flights from Australia with connecting services in Asia by Jetstar affiliates.
The decision comes seven months after the Australian regulator allowed Qantas and Jetstar to co-ordinate with the budget airline’s joint venture operations in Singapore, Vietnam, Japan and Hong Kong for the next five years.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said in March that the better co-ordination of passenger and cargo services posed ‘‘little, if any, detriment’’ because the airlines faced stiff competition from other carriers on the mostly intra-Asian routes they flew.
Advertisement
The clearance in Singapore also comes as Jetstar awaits a decision from aviation regulators in Hong Kong about whether they will approve its plans to launch operations from the Chinese territory.
However, the new airline faces stiff opposition from Cathay Pacific, its offshoot Dragonair, and Chinese-backed Hong Kong Airlines.
Jetstar Hong Kong is a joint venture between Qantas, Shanghai-based China Eastern Airlines and more recently Shun Tak Holdings, the listed conglomerate founded by Macau gambling billionaire Stanley Ho.
AIRLINE GROWTH SLOWS
Airline profits this year are expected to be $US1 billion ($1.06 billion) less than was forecast in June due to higher oil prices and weaker growth in several key emerging markets.
However, the International Air Transport Association pointed out that its revised forecast for the combined profit of the world’s airlines of $US12.7 billion was still considerably higher than the $US7.4 billion net profit in 2012.
‘‘Overall, the story is largely positive. Profitability continues on an improving trajectory. But we have run into a few speed bumps,’’ IATA’s Director General and CEO, Tony Tyler, said.
‘‘Cargo growth has not materialised. Emerging markets have slowed. And the oil price spike has had a dampening effect.’’
The peak industry body has also downgraded its outlook for airline profits in the Asia-Pacific region by $US1.5 billion to $US3.1 billion due to slower growth in emerging economies.
However, IATA expects a boost in airline earnings worldwide next year with combined profits of $US16.4 billion due to the likelihood of weaker oil prices and rising business and consumer confidence levels.
‘‘2014 is shaping up to see profit more than double compared to 2012,” Mr Tyler



Read more: Jetstar clears hurdle in Singapore

[swh]

cxhk,

SQ was built up on the demise of many European carriers that use to fly down to Australia, nobody saw it coming when a small little fishing village placed the largest order in history at the time for 747s. Gradually all of those airlines ceased operating to Australia, and SQ went from a very small market share to over 20%. That 20% was a very big bucket, as that market has been growing. They even took market share away from QF.

Since the increase ME carriers into Australia, they have mainly been gaining market share at the expense of SQ, MH, and TG. SQ has lost the most market share, around 6% if memory serves.

Over the same period of time, despite operating more services, CX has maintained around 5% market share, it has no real growth or reduction in market share (the market has grown, hence the extra services). The market share has remained the same even with the introduction of many more services from China to Australia.

The most amusing article I have seen regarding Jetstar Hong Kong came from September 2013 edition of Orient Aviation. On page 8 the CEO Edward Lau was saying the airline is HKG run, on page 12 they have a large article with a summary of an interview with Jayne Hrdlicka (Jetstar Group Manager).

Jayne says in the interview she runs 6 airlines, including Jetstar Hong Kong. She said she will get their HK AOC in September 2013 and start operations by the end of the year.


The article goes on to say she has "104 aircraft under her control and a network of more than 60 destinations in 16 countries".

This really sums up the basic law point CX has been pressing, the control is not in HKG, and does not rest with any of the other local franchises either.