Union Subscription
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Union Subscription
Recently I got to speak to a recruit and she asked me about the union. She commented that it's expensive and she would rather spend it on clothes and she went, "Is the union going to look after me a like a husband, you know for better or worse?" 
I really wanted her to join but my thought immediately associated it to my wife, very expensive to run 
but I lied and replied, "well you are getting the best deal here my dear. At least you don't have to worry about not being able to pay for the union subscription after paying for your ex-wife alimony!" 
Why is it so expensive? Where does the money go?
I really wanted her to join but my thought immediately associated it to my wife, very expensive to run but I lied and replied, "well you are getting the best deal here my dear. At least you don't have to worry about not being able to pay for the union subscription after paying for your ex-wife alimony!" Why is it so expensive? Where does the money go?
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I know it's not much by western standard but we are not in the west, we are in Disneyland. 
Things may or may not be cheaper. Things like insurance should be. Especially we are not getting much protection in a place like Hong Kong.
Let's do the Math. Assume 2000 members and a mean salary of 800000 and take 1% annually :
= 16000000 HKD a year
I just hope the money is put to good use and not towards some skipper's wives.
p.s. Not making any accusation but it would be nice to know where my hard earn cash goes to. A little transparency would be nice.
Things may or may not be cheaper. Things like insurance should be. Especially we are not getting much protection in a place like Hong Kong.Let's do the Math. Assume 2000 members and a mean salary of 800000 and take 1% annually :
= 16000000 HKD a year
I just hope the money is put to good use and not towards some skipper's wives.
p.s. Not making any accusation but it would be nice to know where my hard earn cash goes to. A little transparency would be nice.
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Well, the last person who "went to work for the GC" seems to have been forced OFF the GC because the pansy-a&& AOA doesn't want to ruffle the feathers of the company.
I've heard your spiel before. The GC can only accomplish that for which it has the strong and certain backing of the members. Being a member of the GC, no matter how strong or how weak one is, means nothing if there is not support by the members.
Many, if not most AOA members are sheeple. GC members who speak up and try to fight for what is right are forced off the GC.
I'm proud and content not to be an AOA member. So many members have told me they are only members so that they don't get sh|t from members. I'll happily take any flak and defend my position.
I've heard your spiel before. The GC can only accomplish that for which it has the strong and certain backing of the members. Being a member of the GC, no matter how strong or how weak one is, means nothing if there is not support by the members.
Many, if not most AOA members are sheeple. GC members who speak up and try to fight for what is right are forced off the GC.
I'm proud and content not to be an AOA member. So many members have told me they are only members so that they don't get sh|t from members. I'll happily take any flak and defend my position.
Last edited by Oval3Holer; 30th Jan 2012 at 03:31. Reason: To add the reference to sheeple
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Sorry 3holer, but your position is lame. If there was another organisational option to the AOA, and you belonged to it and PAID dues, I would accept your position. As it is however, the AOA is it, and you are basically riding on the backs of the members who contribute their dues to the COMMON good. Any benefit gained is also enjoyed by you, but you are not contributing to any such gain. I have no respect for that. If you donated the same amount to the Sunnyside Club it would at least demonstrate integrity. Anything else is pure sanctimony.
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3holer, shame on you, but at the same time, I agree with you. The AOA is weak, it needs to harden the 
up and stand up against management. I am a member because it's protection and insurance. I can't say have much expectation for them. i-cadet....... do I need to say more?
up and stand up against management. I am a member because it's protection and insurance. I can't say have much expectation for them. i-cadet....... do I need to say more?
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Oval,
So, the problem of the AOA is weak backing by its members?
Your solution is to remove yourself from the membership. How does that help fix the problem, or anything for that matter?
Except perhaps your financial problems. AP is right, your position is utterly contemptible unless you are donating your dues to charity instead of pocketing them. Is that the case? I doubt it.
Until then, you are just a free-loader like every other non-member.
The truth does not stop being the truth just because you don't like it.
CXorcist
So, the problem of the AOA is weak backing by its members?
Your solution is to remove yourself from the membership. How does that help fix the problem, or anything for that matter?
Except perhaps your financial problems. AP is right, your position is utterly contemptible unless you are donating your dues to charity instead of pocketing them. Is that the case? I doubt it.
Until then, you are just a free-loader like every other non-member.
The truth does not stop being the truth just because you don't like it.
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So, 3Holer, please explain "happliy" how your non membership contributes to improved working conditions. What is your master plan alternative to the pilots trying to stick together in an association?
I afraid that many of these posts are a reflection of the the poster's guilt, embarrassment and shame of not being a member of the AOA.
By not doing their share to contribute to protecting and furthering the interests of the aircrew profession, they are driven to try denigrate those who are members or to try denigrate the Association itself.
History has shown that men of such low integrity and selfishness have ever been such and are not worth your time conversing with.
By not doing their share to contribute to protecting and furthering the interests of the aircrew profession, they are driven to try denigrate those who are members or to try denigrate the Association itself.
History has shown that men of such low integrity and selfishness have ever been such and are not worth your time conversing with.
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Unfortunately, this is an argument that will never be won by either side. We each have our reasons for doing or not doing something. I agree that the AOA is all we've got, but unfortunately the AOA (and therefore, its members) have continually dropped the ball and given things away in exchange for empty promises for far too long. You all will say, "But, look at the raise we got! Do you think we would have achieved that without the collective power of the AOA?" I think the company gives us only what its highly-paid consultants tell it to give us to keep costs to a minimum. These costs include insurance (the company's hull insurance), public perception, training, housing, medical, etc. It's all about money. If anyone in the AOA thinks that anything "achieved" by the AOA is because of the existence of the AOA, that person is delusional. These people have been dealing with employee groups for 196 years! Do you think WE are any different or more capable of getting more than what JS&S chooses to give us than all those with whom it has dealt in the past 196 years? I think not, old boy!
In my time at this company I have seen nothing but a degradation in pay, rostering and benefits (in real dollars). The AOA's argument is that without it, the degradation would have been worse. I don't buy it. It's all about who joins and who quits: supply and demand. Look how the iCadet compensation package has changed. Is it because of the AOA? Nope.
Does the AOA enforce our contract and prosecute violations of it? Nope. Why? Because the company hides behind "privacy laws" which don't allow the AOA to have access to the information it needs to enforce our contract.
valhalla, unfortunately there is no master plan. Hong Kong is an employer-friendly state, the courts are in CX's pocket and most CX pilots care only for themselves, despite their membership in the AOA (usually due to embarrassment and guilt they would feel if they were NOT in the AOA). Any kind of industrial action would be met fiercely by CX, supported by the courts, and the pilots would be the losers.
There is a time when the smart people realize that they are members of an army fighting a battle which cannot be won. Staying and continuing to fight is insanity.
Pay your dues and enjoy your meatless newsletters so you can sleep well at night knowing you're a part of a group which doesn't want to ruffle management's feathers.
One last thing for AirProfit. You say I ride on the backs of members and enjoy any benefit gained by their contributions. True, but I also suffer for that which is bargained AWAY by the AOA. If I could be on my own, privately-negotiated contract, I would. During my time at CX, the AOA has given AWAY more than it has gained.
In my time at this company I have seen nothing but a degradation in pay, rostering and benefits (in real dollars). The AOA's argument is that without it, the degradation would have been worse. I don't buy it. It's all about who joins and who quits: supply and demand. Look how the iCadet compensation package has changed. Is it because of the AOA? Nope.
Does the AOA enforce our contract and prosecute violations of it? Nope. Why? Because the company hides behind "privacy laws" which don't allow the AOA to have access to the information it needs to enforce our contract.
valhalla, unfortunately there is no master plan. Hong Kong is an employer-friendly state, the courts are in CX's pocket and most CX pilots care only for themselves, despite their membership in the AOA (usually due to embarrassment and guilt they would feel if they were NOT in the AOA). Any kind of industrial action would be met fiercely by CX, supported by the courts, and the pilots would be the losers.
There is a time when the smart people realize that they are members of an army fighting a battle which cannot be won. Staying and continuing to fight is insanity.
Pay your dues and enjoy your meatless newsletters so you can sleep well at night knowing you're a part of a group which doesn't want to ruffle management's feathers.
One last thing for AirProfit. You say I ride on the backs of members and enjoy any benefit gained by their contributions. True, but I also suffer for that which is bargained AWAY by the AOA. If I could be on my own, privately-negotiated contract, I would. During my time at CX, the AOA has given AWAY more than it has gained.
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Re Gen Sec pay: Why don't you pick up the ****in phone and call AOA and ask them?
Cumguzzler, you are an angry little man aren't you? And working for CX, who wouldn't be. Perhaps you are angry at seeing your subscriptions squandered. Never mind, keep on paying - I'm alright!!
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oval.....just slagged you off in another post but you are absolutely on the mark with this one..the last 12 years has seen a litany of failures and give aways by the AOA, punctuated only in the last 2 by a meagre pay rise for which they seem to feel they deserve a fanfare of applause for David standing up to the veritable Goliath...the reality of course is somewhat different..as you so rightly stated, they have given away on our behalf far more than we have gained from their successes and yet we still pay our subs without question...I would say that those who have benefited from the recent pay rise have done so despite the union rather than because of them and....even as a union member myself..to say that those who are non members are undeserving and riding on the back of our success smacks of delusional hypocritical arrogance.. a trait that seems to be particularly endemic on this forum
Gentleman, really?
WE ARE THE UNION.
So, if you want to point your finger at anyone then point it at yourselves!!
HK isn't a level playing field, so the Association is immediately on the back foot.
Our Association may not be brilliant when it comes to getting what it wants but by god we'd be a lot worse off without it.
WE ARE THE UNION.
So, if you want to point your finger at anyone then point it at yourselves!!
HK isn't a level playing field, so the Association is immediately on the back foot.
Our Association may not be brilliant when it comes to getting what it wants but by god we'd be a lot worse off without it.