The Truth about Aviation: Where does my future lie?
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The Truth about Aviation: Where does my future lie?
Hello Ladies & Gents
My name is Ian. I have been lurking these forums for several years. I was unfortunate to be born into a family of aviators. I was born in Seattle, my father worked for Boeing, and I have several relatives involved in the business. My parents were immigrants and when I was about 2 we moved back to our Homeland of Malawi where they have started two very successful business
A bit about myself.....
I am a 21 year old American and Malawian citizen. I am currently in my third year of study at the University of Miami, majoring International Studies with minors in Economics, Business Administration, Marketing, and Geography. I am interested in pursuing postgraduate education after I graduate in 2013. I am currently looking at doing in International Business in Australia with a specific focus on the Asian Pacific region. I have always wanted to be a pilot from since I can remember. I got my pilots license when I was 18 and have literally been obsessed with anything to do with the airlines.
My Question....
I am not one of those uninformed kids who comes on here asking the same questions again and again. I understand that aviation is not what it was before and that the future for the profession is bleek. Unfortunately I have interned at a Bank and a consulting firm and while I realize that these jobs could probably provide me with a much higher standard of living than I can attain being a pilot, it is something I feel I have to do or I would be doing myself and the young me who used to dream of flying everyday an injustice. My plan right now is to obtain my MBA while simultaneously completing my flight training. My parents have the funding to complete such an endeavor. The reason I write here is because someday I would like to work in South East Asia and it is o my understanding that Cathay although what not it used to be is still one of the top airlines in the world, and Hong Kong is one of the most interesting cities in the world. I however have some questions that have been on my mind and I have finally decided to ask those with the knowledge. If these have been asked already please do forgive, I have searched the forums extensively.
1. How easy is it to progress from a pilot into Airline Management or into other Aviation related industries such as Aviation Consulting? I would someday like to put my education to work in areas other than the cockpit.
2. How old is too old to be entering the profession? I would be entering around 26-27 and as a profession based on seniority I understand that that is pretty late.
3. How does it affect your social life? As a young single man or as a family man.
4. What are the prospects like for travel with your family? If there is an empty seat on a sector you are flying can your significant other be put on standby free of charge or are they costs involved? One of the most appealing aspects of being a pilot in South East Asia is the opportunity to visit some new and exciting countries that I probably would not have the opportunity to otherwise.
5. And most importantly, honestly, do you (Cathay Pilot or pilot in General) come home everyday loving/enjoying your job? This is the most important thing. I understand that a job is a job, but do you still catch yourself in awe watching hundreds of tons on metal soar into the sky?
Again if these questions have been asked before I do apologize. Also I was not sure which forum was most appropriate to post this in but I imagined since I would like to fly in South East Asia this would be the most appropriate. I would like to thank you in advance for your help and answers.
Regards
Ian
My name is Ian. I have been lurking these forums for several years. I was unfortunate to be born into a family of aviators. I was born in Seattle, my father worked for Boeing, and I have several relatives involved in the business. My parents were immigrants and when I was about 2 we moved back to our Homeland of Malawi where they have started two very successful business
A bit about myself.....
I am a 21 year old American and Malawian citizen. I am currently in my third year of study at the University of Miami, majoring International Studies with minors in Economics, Business Administration, Marketing, and Geography. I am interested in pursuing postgraduate education after I graduate in 2013. I am currently looking at doing in International Business in Australia with a specific focus on the Asian Pacific region. I have always wanted to be a pilot from since I can remember. I got my pilots license when I was 18 and have literally been obsessed with anything to do with the airlines.
My Question....
I am not one of those uninformed kids who comes on here asking the same questions again and again. I understand that aviation is not what it was before and that the future for the profession is bleek. Unfortunately I have interned at a Bank and a consulting firm and while I realize that these jobs could probably provide me with a much higher standard of living than I can attain being a pilot, it is something I feel I have to do or I would be doing myself and the young me who used to dream of flying everyday an injustice. My plan right now is to obtain my MBA while simultaneously completing my flight training. My parents have the funding to complete such an endeavor. The reason I write here is because someday I would like to work in South East Asia and it is o my understanding that Cathay although what not it used to be is still one of the top airlines in the world, and Hong Kong is one of the most interesting cities in the world. I however have some questions that have been on my mind and I have finally decided to ask those with the knowledge. If these have been asked already please do forgive, I have searched the forums extensively.
1. How easy is it to progress from a pilot into Airline Management or into other Aviation related industries such as Aviation Consulting? I would someday like to put my education to work in areas other than the cockpit.
2. How old is too old to be entering the profession? I would be entering around 26-27 and as a profession based on seniority I understand that that is pretty late.
3. How does it affect your social life? As a young single man or as a family man.
4. What are the prospects like for travel with your family? If there is an empty seat on a sector you are flying can your significant other be put on standby free of charge or are they costs involved? One of the most appealing aspects of being a pilot in South East Asia is the opportunity to visit some new and exciting countries that I probably would not have the opportunity to otherwise.
5. And most importantly, honestly, do you (Cathay Pilot or pilot in General) come home everyday loving/enjoying your job? This is the most important thing. I understand that a job is a job, but do you still catch yourself in awe watching hundreds of tons on metal soar into the sky?
Again if these questions have been asked before I do apologize. Also I was not sure which forum was most appropriate to post this in but I imagined since I would like to fly in South East Asia this would be the most appropriate. I would like to thank you in advance for your help and answers.
Regards
Ian
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If you have to ask whether or not it is something you want to do before you even start then my advice is to not bother. Flying is a great job if you truly love flying...as you put it, if you are in awe of a plane lifting off every time you see it happen. If not, then pretty soon you will see only the bad side of the job and join the rest of the Pprune ranks in whinging about every facet of it.
Some of us truly love it and even then certain things can get us down. Too many of us regard it only as a job and I pity them as it must be a miserable job to endure.
Some of us truly love it and even then certain things can get us down. Too many of us regard it only as a job and I pity them as it must be a miserable job to endure.
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Others will probably differ, but here is my 2 cents worth.
Not very. You hit the nail on the head when you talked about seniority. You can only move into management when you become a captain. You only become a captain as fast as the airline is growing. At Cathay the estimates vary wildly, but you are looking at least 10years plus. The airline pilot seniority system doesn't promote based on ability, but time. Sure, you have to survive your upgrade, but honestly if it was done on ability there would be guys doing there commands right now, rather than waiting years in line. So the short of it; you will be at least in your 40s before you have a chance at getting into management (if that’s what you still want after years of being screwed over by them!) There are possibilities of moving into other areas, for example a Flight Inspector job for an aviation regulator. But you would most likely have to be a fairly experienced FO for that kind of work.
Sounds like you are single, so that should make it easier if you start later. 26-27 is late compared to most guys, as it is all about building hours, but honestly I have heard of guys changing careers in their early 30s. Given your age, I would try to get into the right hand seat of a jet as soon as possible. The Cathay cadet program condemns you to years of bunk making before you have a look in at real flying, which it sounds like it is what you really want out of all this. Look at other programs that get you into the right had seat. E.g. Qatar airways have a cadet program that will put you in the right hand seat of an A320. Do this and you will have far more options then coming to Cathay as an SO. You will probably also enjoy your job as being an SO is soul destroying.
You will go away. Sometimes overnight, sometimes longer. At Cathay a freighter pilot may find himself away for periods of up to 10days. Not the usual, but it happens enough to matter. I met my wife in my very early days of flying. She coped with it as it all developed and is still here. I think it would be harder meeting someone who is used to dating people with 'normal' jobs and expecting them to handle the absences. But that is a generalisation, and I hate generalising, especially with relationships.
I love to travel around Asia. Best part of being in Hong Kong I think. If you pick where you go, you usually get on with staff travel. Staff travel is 10% of a standard fare plus taxes. Once the kiddies come along though it gets hard. Once they start school and you can only travel during school holiday periods, it can be nigh on impossible. Those are the choices we all make I guess, but the companies free tickets (which are of a lower priority than the other passengers) can be almost unusable if you are depending on getting home during the holidays.
Personally, I did my best flying in my last job. This one provides a better future for my family financially. However...the pollution in Hong Kong is atrocious and my long term plans do not involve staying here until I retire. I generally enjoy my work, but there are days when I am so tired I almost feel sick. That’s when I don't enjoy it. The management at Cathay is trying to squeeze every last drop of productivity out of the pilots at the lowest cost. This has been happening for the last 20 years. Personally I foresee more days of me being so tired that I feel sick. Thus, I plan on giving away long haul flying and Cathay as a result sooner rather than later. Hate to sound bleak, but if you do this kind of flying in this environment into your 50s, you are going to end up being the richest man in the graveyard. So my advice, look beyond the money. How hard are the guys worked? What is the standard of living like? What are the trends within the company? Etc
Anyway, hope this helps. Some may disagree, hell on pprune some will probably hide behind there anonymity and abuse you. Whatever happens, weigh it all up, get as many different opinions as you can from people who know
Good luck
1. How easy is it to progress from a pilot into Airline Management or into other Aviation related industries such as Aviation Consulting? I would someday like to put my education to work in areas other than the cockpit.
Not very. You hit the nail on the head when you talked about seniority. You can only move into management when you become a captain. You only become a captain as fast as the airline is growing. At Cathay the estimates vary wildly, but you are looking at least 10years plus. The airline pilot seniority system doesn't promote based on ability, but time. Sure, you have to survive your upgrade, but honestly if it was done on ability there would be guys doing there commands right now, rather than waiting years in line. So the short of it; you will be at least in your 40s before you have a chance at getting into management (if that’s what you still want after years of being screwed over by them!) There are possibilities of moving into other areas, for example a Flight Inspector job for an aviation regulator. But you would most likely have to be a fairly experienced FO for that kind of work.
2. How old is too old to be entering the profession? I would be entering around 26-27 and as a profession based on seniority I understand that that is pretty late.
Sounds like you are single, so that should make it easier if you start later. 26-27 is late compared to most guys, as it is all about building hours, but honestly I have heard of guys changing careers in their early 30s. Given your age, I would try to get into the right hand seat of a jet as soon as possible. The Cathay cadet program condemns you to years of bunk making before you have a look in at real flying, which it sounds like it is what you really want out of all this. Look at other programs that get you into the right had seat. E.g. Qatar airways have a cadet program that will put you in the right hand seat of an A320. Do this and you will have far more options then coming to Cathay as an SO. You will probably also enjoy your job as being an SO is soul destroying.
3. How does it affect your social life? As a young single man or as a family man
You will go away. Sometimes overnight, sometimes longer. At Cathay a freighter pilot may find himself away for periods of up to 10days. Not the usual, but it happens enough to matter. I met my wife in my very early days of flying. She coped with it as it all developed and is still here. I think it would be harder meeting someone who is used to dating people with 'normal' jobs and expecting them to handle the absences. But that is a generalisation, and I hate generalising, especially with relationships.
4. What are the prospects like for travel with your family? If there is an empty seat on a sector you are flying can your significant other be put on standby free of charge or are they costs involved? One of the most appealing aspects of being a pilot in South East Asia is the opportunity to visit some new and exciting countries that I probably would not have the opportunity to otherwise.
I love to travel around Asia. Best part of being in Hong Kong I think. If you pick where you go, you usually get on with staff travel. Staff travel is 10% of a standard fare plus taxes. Once the kiddies come along though it gets hard. Once they start school and you can only travel during school holiday periods, it can be nigh on impossible. Those are the choices we all make I guess, but the companies free tickets (which are of a lower priority than the other passengers) can be almost unusable if you are depending on getting home during the holidays.
5. And most importantly, honestly, do you (Cathay Pilot or pilot in General) come home everyday loving/enjoying your job? This is the most important thing. I understand that a job is a job, but do you still catch yourself in awe watching hundreds of tons on metal soar into the sky?
Personally, I did my best flying in my last job. This one provides a better future for my family financially. However...the pollution in Hong Kong is atrocious and my long term plans do not involve staying here until I retire. I generally enjoy my work, but there are days when I am so tired I almost feel sick. That’s when I don't enjoy it. The management at Cathay is trying to squeeze every last drop of productivity out of the pilots at the lowest cost. This has been happening for the last 20 years. Personally I foresee more days of me being so tired that I feel sick. Thus, I plan on giving away long haul flying and Cathay as a result sooner rather than later. Hate to sound bleak, but if you do this kind of flying in this environment into your 50s, you are going to end up being the richest man in the graveyard. So my advice, look beyond the money. How hard are the guys worked? What is the standard of living like? What are the trends within the company? Etc
Anyway, hope this helps. Some may disagree, hell on pprune some will probably hide behind there anonymity and abuse you. Whatever happens, weigh it all up, get as many different opinions as you can from people who know
Good luck
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Mr Claus is offering you a very insightful and honest look at 'spending time', not enjoying a career, at Cathay Pacific. It is the same at Dragonair......perhaps worse, depending on your point of view.
In my opinion there is no substitute for experience. The best experience you will get, the experience that makes you a better pilot, is either from the military or the time you spend in General Aviation and working your way up. Leap frogging into a cadet program with Cathay Pacific is probably the worse thing you can do from an aviation perspective. As Mr Claus suggested, at the very least make sure the Cadet program allows you to operate in the right seat of an aircraft. No doubt that you can fast track your career by leaving the US, but it has to be the right move. Cathay Pacific for someone in their late 20's is the wrong one. Don't do it......... please. If no one joins CX, then perhaps one day they will offer terms and conditions for new joiners, that are not tantamount to slave labor.
There will be opportunities for you in management one day, but that really will depend a great deal on the decisions you make today. Did I mention experience? Get it. Without it, you will not have any credibility with those you wish to manage.
Best of luck.
In my opinion there is no substitute for experience. The best experience you will get, the experience that makes you a better pilot, is either from the military or the time you spend in General Aviation and working your way up. Leap frogging into a cadet program with Cathay Pacific is probably the worse thing you can do from an aviation perspective. As Mr Claus suggested, at the very least make sure the Cadet program allows you to operate in the right seat of an aircraft. No doubt that you can fast track your career by leaving the US, but it has to be the right move. Cathay Pacific for someone in their late 20's is the wrong one. Don't do it......... please. If no one joins CX, then perhaps one day they will offer terms and conditions for new joiners, that are not tantamount to slave labor.
There will be opportunities for you in management one day, but that really will depend a great deal on the decisions you make today. Did I mention experience? Get it. Without it, you will not have any credibility with those you wish to manage.
Best of luck.
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Thank you all for your advice, I really do appreciate hearing from those with personal experience. It is a tough time to be entering the airline industry, and although I have 3 more years before my time comes, there are some decisions I can take now to make that process easier which is why I ask. I have no doubt that there is nothing else I would rather than spend my time in the best office in the world up in the clouds. But when I read posts on hear from pilots saying they would never let their own child fly, or complaining about pay, marriage issues and so on it is concerning and can make you think twice. Anyway appreciate your comments.
Regards
Ian
Regards
Ian
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I think most pilots who say they don't want their children doing it have not thought it through.
I would want my child to do whatever they please as long as it isn't illegal, makes them happy and allows them to support a family. If that was flying then I would support it as I would anything else. At the end of the day we all admit that flying is not what it used to be. The job has changed a lot over the years but what job would I rather be doing? Well I can't think of anything. What job would I push my children towards if I wanted them to avoid flying? I can't think of anything either. Of course, if my children want to spend 5 days a week, 9 to 5 in a windowless office then there are plenty of other jobs I could recommend for them.
I would want my child to do whatever they please as long as it isn't illegal, makes them happy and allows them to support a family. If that was flying then I would support it as I would anything else. At the end of the day we all admit that flying is not what it used to be. The job has changed a lot over the years but what job would I rather be doing? Well I can't think of anything. What job would I push my children towards if I wanted them to avoid flying? I can't think of anything either. Of course, if my children want to spend 5 days a week, 9 to 5 in a windowless office then there are plenty of other jobs I could recommend for them.
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I would want my child to do whatever they please as long as it isn't illegal, makes them happy and allows them to support a family.
