CX Hiring First Officers? When?
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We all know that CAD stands for Cathay Aviation Department, I doubt CX will have any trouble with the P2X issue, I'm more worried about the CAD saying yes with a P1X pilot you can go 3 crew long haul or whatever else CX deems P1X can be used for.
If we can go with Capt, F/O and two P2X S/Os now, looks like the P1X is ripe for Capt, F/O and one P1X S/O or cruise pilot or whatever else they'd like to call it.
If we can go with Capt, F/O and two P2X S/Os now, looks like the P1X is ripe for Capt, F/O and one P1X S/O or cruise pilot or whatever else they'd like to call it.
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Brian Potter,
I'm sure you mean well, and we get your point, but the SO intake was how the system worked if you joined in Hong Kong....until the DEFO period..... I can assure you that even though you have "served your time" there are still SOs here with more experience than you.
Good luck with whatever path you choose, however.
I'm sure you mean well, and we get your point, but the SO intake was how the system worked if you joined in Hong Kong....until the DEFO period..... I can assure you that even though you have "served your time" there are still SOs here with more experience than you.
Good luck with whatever path you choose, however.
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The Wraith
Not quite true my friend.
DEFO was the method of entry until the local cadet scheme, then it became a mixture of DEFO /SO and Cadet. The system then changed to Cadet / SO with a short period of DEFO a couple of years ago.
(Not many people know that! to quote an incorrectly attributed quote of a Mr M Caine)
Not quite true my friend.
DEFO was the method of entry until the local cadet scheme, then it became a mixture of DEFO /SO and Cadet. The system then changed to Cadet / SO with a short period of DEFO a couple of years ago.
(Not many people know that! to quote an incorrectly attributed quote of a Mr M Caine)
Forever, 'Ace', if the standard of English and spelling in your post is the same as that in your application.
Are you sure that you are up to being trained to fly wide-bodied airliners, carrying hundreds of people, all over the planet?
Are you sure that you are up to being trained to fly wide-bodied airliners, carrying hundreds of people, all over the planet?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 30th Jun 2011 at 00:40.
Yeah Boxy, the usual caveats; it may be a wind up, or he had a few beers before posting. But my response still stands; just in case he's for real.
And the way things are going with the 'vision' for icadets, fast-trackers and MPLs in order to avoid paying good money for quality crew, I am becoming glad that retirement is not that far off...
And the way things are going with the 'vision' for icadets, fast-trackers and MPLs in order to avoid paying good money for quality crew, I am becoming glad that retirement is not that far off...
Last edited by Captain Dart; 30th Jun 2011 at 08:00.
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....and many current SOs have spent more than 14 years flying - and are still serving their time. But, you want to jump ahead of them because why? Perhaps you dont fully understand the situation.
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Yawn.
It is the same story every time an expansion comes along. There are not enough trainers to do the task.
You can't just upgrade another dozen training Captains in a month or two and then solve the problem. That is just like being short of "pilots" and simply hiring S/O's. The Training team need to be expanded in depth to cope with an increased task. This needs to take place before the new basic trainees enter the system, since you need training resources to train the new trainers.
The result is that the available training sectors limit the expansion for the whole airline.
If you need one new pilot....
To upgrade an S/O, you first need to factor in the training requirement of his replacement S/O. That is 10 training sectors, mostly ULH. In addition, about 20% need more training.
Then his/her 60 sector JFO course needs to be accounted for (even though about 30-40% check out at 40 sectors)
To recruit a Direct Entry F/O the programme is 30 sectors of line training. Approximately 30% need some extra sectors. The record is 27 extra. (still held by the 74F!)
The number crunchers calculate that in balance it is best to recruit DE F/O's onto a base during an expansion (when training sectors are at a premium). This is even before the costs of based and expat pilots are considered.
It is the same story every time an expansion comes along. There are not enough trainers to do the task.
You can't just upgrade another dozen training Captains in a month or two and then solve the problem. That is just like being short of "pilots" and simply hiring S/O's. The Training team need to be expanded in depth to cope with an increased task. This needs to take place before the new basic trainees enter the system, since you need training resources to train the new trainers.
The result is that the available training sectors limit the expansion for the whole airline.
If you need one new pilot....
To upgrade an S/O, you first need to factor in the training requirement of his replacement S/O. That is 10 training sectors, mostly ULH. In addition, about 20% need more training.
Then his/her 60 sector JFO course needs to be accounted for (even though about 30-40% check out at 40 sectors)
To recruit a Direct Entry F/O the programme is 30 sectors of line training. Approximately 30% need some extra sectors. The record is 27 extra. (still held by the 74F!)
The number crunchers calculate that in balance it is best to recruit DE F/O's onto a base during an expansion (when training sectors are at a premium). This is even before the costs of based and expat pilots are considered.
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DEFO
(hopefully NEVER again!!!! )I said that when they brought in B scale to undercut me but it happened again and again and again and...
Last edited by cxflyer; 6th Jul 2011 at 18:51. Reason: Adding
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Wouldn't it be better to say: "DESO (and cadets), hopefully NEVER again!!!!"
I mean, it is really worth having 4000h+ pilots who don't fly the plane, for half the salary?
There would be no problems if there were no SO's.
Come on, let's upgrade everybody, and get rid of the ridiculous p2x rating / SO rank
I mean, it is really worth having 4000h+ pilots who don't fly the plane, for half the salary?
There would be no problems if there were no SO's.
Come on, let's upgrade everybody, and get rid of the ridiculous p2x rating / SO rank
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The standard response, whether true or not, is that there are not enough sectors in the network to keep everyone current. It is particularly problematic when most captains think they should fly 1 of every 2 ULH sectors despite there being 2 FO's who need to stay current as well as gain experience, and some famous captains fly 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 sectors and think nobody notices.
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...the based guys already get regional patterns nearly every month. check your facts before posting. As for Captains 'thinking they need' sectors....in the end we are responsible for the safety of the aircraft and we have to maintain competency. If you don't like that fact, then join a regional and do six sectors a day.
ps. the Captains that fly 2 of3 or 3 of 4.....don't care if you notice.
ps. the Captains that fly 2 of3 or 3 of 4.....don't care if you notice.
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Current or ??
I understand being responsible for the safety of the aircraft, but if somebody has to fly 2 out of 3 or even 1 out of 2 to feel proficient, maybe this job is not for him.