A sign of the times
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A sign of the times
Today (31st March) is the first day - to my knowledge - that in excess of 1000 aircraft movements are scheduled for VHHH. Doesn't mean we'll break that figure, won't know till after midnight, but I guess we will see more of this! We used to do a little over 500 a day when we first moved from Kai Tak.
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...in excess of 1000 aircraft movements are scheduled...
I blame that bloke downstairs and his fancy ... fast time machine!
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1000 movements
In 2009, HKG ranked 41st busiest among the world's airports by aircraft movements. In 2010, HKG was still not ranked in the top 30. Granted, the primarily wide-body traffic explains some of this. For passenger traffic, HKG ranked 11th in 2010.
However, with better ATC these numbers could be improved by some margin. That should be the first priority, but the politically incorrect reality is that it will take many more gweilos to get the job done and that is not going to happen.
So a third runway becomes the next viable option, but how much does it really accomplish when there is still only one departure and arrival corridor, especially considering the previous point about ATC.
However, with better ATC these numbers could be improved by some margin. That should be the first priority, but the politically incorrect reality is that it will take many more gweilos to get the job done and that is not going to happen.
So a third runway becomes the next viable option, but how much does it really accomplish when there is still only one departure and arrival corridor, especially considering the previous point about ATC.
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Hi cxorcist,
To understand where Hong Kong stands in the world you need to add another statistic, which you omitted.
World Airport Rankings 2010: Hong Kong eclipses Memphis as the world’s busiest cargo hub | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - CAPA.
The salient part of which is:
If you were to convert those freighters to passenger-carrying wide-bodied aircraft you may get a rather different ranking for passenger traffic.
I don't think better ATC is what you really meant. Perhaps, a better access by the current ATCOs to airspace North of VHHH would see a ranking transformation into the top 10 in the world.
But, if you check all those airports in the top 10 they all have more than 2 runways. So, you can only truly compare like with like.
If you pay a visit to the ATCC, you will find that the vast majority of the controllers are of the non-gweilo type and they seem to do a pretty good job. So, I think you may be slightly mistaken in your above assertion. The one thing we do agree on, though, is the need for many more ATCOs to get the job done.
I'm assuming from your moniker that you work for CX and I believe they are getting a net 41 new aircraft in the next few years. So, this means ATC have to increase the runway capacity by 3 per hour (based on the 14 hours where capacity can be increased) just to accommodate CX. The trouble is that there is another outfit based in Hong Kong called HK? which also is increasing the size of its fleet, but by 63. So, there's another increase in runway capacity by 4+ per hour, which if you add those numbers to the current 61 per hour max takes you to 68 per hour. The trouble is that there are a few more airlines around the world that would like to increase their capacity into Hong Kong, probably including a few cargo carriers.
New runway? More like new airport!
On the beach
"For passenger traffic, HKG ranked 11th in 2010".
World Airport Rankings 2010: Hong Kong eclipses Memphis as the world’s busiest cargo hub | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - CAPA.
The salient part of which is:
"It’s official: Hong Kong International Airport (HKIA) is the world’s busiest cargo hub – ending Memphis International Airport’s 18-year reign at the top of the world rankings".
I don't think better ATC is what you really meant. Perhaps, a better access by the current ATCOs to airspace North of VHHH would see a ranking transformation into the top 10 in the world.
But, if you check all those airports in the top 10 they all have more than 2 runways. So, you can only truly compare like with like.
"...politically incorrect reality is that it will take many more gweilos to get the job done..."
I'm assuming from your moniker that you work for CX and I believe they are getting a net 41 new aircraft in the next few years. So, this means ATC have to increase the runway capacity by 3 per hour (based on the 14 hours where capacity can be increased) just to accommodate CX. The trouble is that there is another outfit based in Hong Kong called HK? which also is increasing the size of its fleet, but by 63. So, there's another increase in runway capacity by 4+ per hour, which if you add those numbers to the current 61 per hour max takes you to 68 per hour. The trouble is that there are a few more airlines around the world that would like to increase their capacity into Hong Kong, probably including a few cargo carriers.
New runway? More like new airport!
On the beach
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On the beach,
Good points you make. I am not an ATC expert, but I do know that HKG could be more aggressive about squeezing departures out between arrivals. If CLK were in the US and at capacity, they would use both runways for arrivals and departures and get at least a third more movements.
Of course this would require some of the moob-equipped pilots to jiggle their stuff a little more getting on and off the runways quickly. It can be done...
Of course this would require some of the moob-equipped pilots to jiggle their stuff a little more getting on and off the runways quickly. It can be done...
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Traffic Flow
I agree with the sentiment that improving Traffic Flow at HKIA should be the priority rather than pouring concrete for a third runway. The speed control for arriving traffic is poorly handled, and the zig zag vectoring is frustrating and clogs the radio with multiple instructions leading to over transmissions - wait for weather avoidance in months ahead.
ATC should get the first aircraft inbound on hi speed (subject to WX of course) and then separate the following by 20kt less? I understand there is multiple entry points, but often when switching frequency, there seems to be little co-ordination of speed between controllers.
I also agree that airspace north is the biggest factor limiting HKIA movements and the biggest headache for controllers. That said, I think there is scope for increasing capacity through better speed and runway management rather than the campaign to build a third runway.
ATC should get the first aircraft inbound on hi speed (subject to WX of course) and then separate the following by 20kt less? I understand there is multiple entry points, but often when switching frequency, there seems to be little co-ordination of speed between controllers.
I also agree that airspace north is the biggest factor limiting HKIA movements and the biggest headache for controllers. That said, I think there is scope for increasing capacity through better speed and runway management rather than the campaign to build a third runway.
I agree, pouring concrete won't solve the problem. The paranoid Peoples Liberation Army Air Force should fly their MiG 17 copies in 'corridors' (this how most other air forces operate) and should relinquish airspace to enable common, coordinated arrivals into the PRD airports.
But the cousins up north will never progress while they think the whole world is out to get them and the military holds sway over economic development. The 'glass wall' will be there for generations to come.
But the cousins up north will never progress while they think the whole world is out to get them and the military holds sway over economic development. The 'glass wall' will be there for generations to come.
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I have noticed a bit of sloppiness from ATC in HKG with regards to multiple instructions issued at once, as well as altitude clearances with a frequency change. Very poor practice and will end up biting someone.
Besides that, the HKG ATC does a great job. They are overly conservative sometimes, but that is probably a result of not seeing what they are seeing.
Besides that, the HKG ATC does a great job. They are overly conservative sometimes, but that is probably a result of not seeing what they are seeing.
I have noticed a bit of sloppiness from ATC in HKG with regards to multiple instructions issued at once, as well as altitude clearances with a frequency change. Very poor practice and will end up biting someone.
In which case, one might applaud the level of HKG ATC expertise and professionalism?
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more traffic
More freighters..More passengers more over fliers more complicted airspace, more on the job training, All for less money than we were paid in 1997....and no early go's..never mind the cost of living..and difficulty to get leave.
Don't know how we do it....but we do..and we generally do it well.!!!
Well done to all...
But wait a minute..here comes the bad weather..Keep an eye on that TCAS.
Don't know how we do it....but we do..and we generally do it well.!!!
Well done to all...
But wait a minute..here comes the bad weather..Keep an eye on that TCAS.
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AGNES, pity it didn't make the magic 1,000 but it will soon occur.
On the other guys like myself here who fly the stuff into VHHH, my view is tooooo much negativity. I operate big iron out of Hong Kong and still the stress reliever of the day, wherever I have flown in Asia, is the frequency transfer to Hong Kong control on return home.
There is no perfect world, and no perfect ATC but for all its restrictions, mostly beyond Hong Kong's control, pilots flying into VHHH get good service. And remember, pilots, that Hong Kong ATC is a Civil Aviation Department of the Hong Kong Government, with all the bureaucratic restrictions on Human Resources that entails. The guys on the mike are being screwed by their employers as much as you are. Or maybe more...
Like when you grab the Dentist's balls, let's not hurt each other here.
On the other guys like myself here who fly the stuff into VHHH, my view is tooooo much negativity. I operate big iron out of Hong Kong and still the stress reliever of the day, wherever I have flown in Asia, is the frequency transfer to Hong Kong control on return home.
There is no perfect world, and no perfect ATC but for all its restrictions, mostly beyond Hong Kong's control, pilots flying into VHHH get good service. And remember, pilots, that Hong Kong ATC is a Civil Aviation Department of the Hong Kong Government, with all the bureaucratic restrictions on Human Resources that entails. The guys on the mike are being screwed by their employers as much as you are. Or maybe more...
Like when you grab the Dentist's balls, let's not hurt each other here.
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Hello guys,
Just a reminder, new arrival procedures for traffic coming from the south and the southeast will be implemented from 0001z on 7/4.
I am sure the local carriers have no problem but for some foreign carriers ....
See you on 7/4.
Just a reminder, new arrival procedures for traffic coming from the south and the southeast will be implemented from 0001z on 7/4.
I am sure the local carriers have no problem but for some foreign carriers ....
See you on 7/4.