Increments
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Increments
Yet again the company is attacking our increment scale (see DFOs weekly update).
For the avoidance of any lingering doubt on behalf of either our AOA negotiators or the company, I am prepared to take industrial action on this one issue alone.
I am sick and tired of being treated with utter contempt. Negotiators, please ram this point home on 13th December.
For the avoidance of any lingering doubt on behalf of either our AOA negotiators or the company, I am prepared to take industrial action on this one issue alone.
I am sick and tired of being treated with utter contempt. Negotiators, please ram this point home on 13th December.
Last edited by joebanana; 3rd Dec 2010 at 10:54. Reason: Editing due fatigue based spelling errors!
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The DFO is a pilot. Why does he even say this? Why not say nothing about pay if you can't say something that makes sense. Its like telling your wife she looks fat in her new dress......
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Increments actually save the company copious amounts of money every year. The fair market value for a given position is the top of the respective pay ladder for that category. The fact that it takes many years to reach the top increment and be compensated accordingly is a win for the company, and a loss for the pilot group. In any other position within the company, CX either pays a competitive salary, or risks losing staff to other employers. That may very well be our new reality too. Although it is a little harder for a pilot to walk away and give up a seniority #, the latest developments (DECs, RA65, Transfer of A/C to lower paying subsidiary, etc.) make me doubt whether this seniority # has any value anyway.
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The DFO is just a Board muppet who, since taking up his position, has failed to make one positive comment in favour or support of HIS troops.
Choosing instead to throw out the propaganda fed to him by his masters.
What a leader!
Choosing instead to throw out the propaganda fed to him by his masters.
What a leader!
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Market Comparison
Dear RH,
I hear frequently that you like to say CX pay the market rate; I have carried out a quick straw pole of my BA and Qantas mates...they all have incremental pilot pay scales.....and yet shock horror receive further pay rises from time to time that reflect the reality of inflation.
I am sure some mathematician out there will be able to tell me when the HIAS bus driver will eventually catch up,but you might be surprised just how quickly the failure to compensate one employee group for inflation has a dramatic affect.
Finally, it really is time you sacked your script writer. The low politics of using envy and racial division to further the Swire case is contemptible for a Company that professes to love the 'Team'.
Lucky the 13th isn't a Friday I guess.........
I hear frequently that you like to say CX pay the market rate; I have carried out a quick straw pole of my BA and Qantas mates...they all have incremental pilot pay scales.....and yet shock horror receive further pay rises from time to time that reflect the reality of inflation.
I am sure some mathematician out there will be able to tell me when the HIAS bus driver will eventually catch up,but you might be surprised just how quickly the failure to compensate one employee group for inflation has a dramatic affect.
Finally, it really is time you sacked your script writer. The low politics of using envy and racial division to further the Swire case is
contemptible for a Company that professes to love the 'Team'.Lucky the 13th isn't a Friday I guess.........
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I was pleased to see the update. The mere mention of any type of pilot response regarding the company not negotiating has caused a drop in revenue. Where I'm from, we call that leverage. All the rest of it was just the company line that I would expect of any manager.
I guess they had better start negotiating in good faith before the Chinese New Year!
I guess they had better start negotiating in good faith before the Chinese New Year!
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No..The DFO is correct. I am standing here now, looking down from the dizzying heights of the final increment of the SO payscale and I can tell you all that I can see all the way to....ah.....ahem ....well... I can see the pot plants on the other side of the apartment. 
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Jizz
Couldn't agree more! I was surprised by the low support for Motion 1, but think many may have changed once they heard pay talks had been scheduled! More good will from the pilot force, but you certainly would think so from the DFOs recent updates.
I was also surprised by the very high support for Motion 2. In a way that gives me some solice, although how many will stick to the task when asked is my main concern!
BUM
Couldn't agree more! I was surprised by the low support for Motion 1, but think many may have changed once they heard pay talks had been scheduled! More good will from the pilot force, but you certainly would think so from the DFOs recent updates.
I was also surprised by the very high support for Motion 2. In a way that gives me some solice, although how many will stick to the task when asked is my main concern!
BUM
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I think that while this a good "job", it's not the golden goose it once was. I think many are angry at the state of things, and will be more than happy to abide by the union rules. I just hope they get implemented soon!
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As has been mentioned the Local press in HKG is sensationalising the vote big time. People think we are striking. I don't think it is quantifiable because bookings are strong anyway - but I think a lot of people have decided to book with other carriers as a result - CX is definately losing revenue due to the bad press.
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As posted in the Mr. SMCP thread:
I also think it's time for the AOA to make it's own unilateral demand before continuing any negotiations:
"We, company management, leaders, communication personnel and all relevant individuals who make statements about such matters, agree that seniority-based pilot pay scale annual increments are not equivalent to pay rises and will never again be referred to as pay rises in any further communication. We agree that a pay increase for pilots occurs when the value of each pay increment is increased, not when a pilot moves up a step in the annual pay increments. We agree that, unlike all other employee groups in the company, major airline pilots throughout the world are part of a seniority-based career, lifestyle, promotion and pay system that is designed to retain very expensive and valuable training and experienced gained by pilots during their careers at the company and prevents the company from becoming a revolving door "contractor pilot" airline. This is why, despite 10-20 years of previous experience before being hired at our company, we continue to invest in their training and qualifications for the long term and want to retain pilots until retirement to benefit from those investments and the value they bring to the company, and because it is so difficult, costly and time-consuming to replace pilots who leave and far more efficient to retain pilots with excellent pay and benefit that remain excellent.
We agree that pilots are paid much less early in their careers at the company and that we motivate and encourage them to stay with the company, rather than take their qualifications and experience to the highest bidder elsewhere, though the use of this seniority-based system that makes pilots want to invest decades of their lives at the company in order to attain the highest pay levels. This is very beneficial to the company, so we provide a table of annual pay increments and agree that increasing the value of that table from time to time, in a manner similar to pay rises given to other employee groups, is necessary in order to compensate for inflation, cost of living and to remain competitive in the market. In fact, we agree that doing so is more necessary for pilots than most employee groups, because of the value of the investment the company makes in each pilot as well as the risk the pilot takes in sticking with the company for decades while the option of changing airlines quickly becomes less and less valuable. We see this as a mutually beneficial situation that requires the proper level of company contribution.
Because we recognize that pilots are at the very front operational lines when it comes to the complex flying of our large fleet of large aircraft, and because pilots are the very final experts, professionals and authorities in the safe operation of our aircraft, we place tremendous value in pilots for upholding our #1 stated corporate priority, which is safety.
For the removal of any doubt, once again, we, the company, agree that an annual pay increment on the pilot pay scale is not a pay rise, but rather simply a step up the seniority-based pay system that is promised to pilots to reward their longevity and to increasingly encourage long careers at the company as the pilot becomes increasing more valuable as more and more investment by the company has been made in their ongoing training and experience, and as more and more risk has been taken by the pilots who choose to continue to offer their services to the company.
Furthermore, we will immediately issue a press release and a company-wide statement to clarify the misconception that we are responsible for creating in order to lower pilots' expectations of a pay rise."
"We, company management, leaders, communication personnel and all relevant individuals who make statements about such matters, agree that seniority-based pilot pay scale annual increments are not equivalent to pay rises and will never again be referred to as pay rises in any further communication. We agree that a pay increase for pilots occurs when the value of each pay increment is increased, not when a pilot moves up a step in the annual pay increments. We agree that, unlike all other employee groups in the company, major airline pilots throughout the world are part of a seniority-based career, lifestyle, promotion and pay system that is designed to retain very expensive and valuable training and experienced gained by pilots during their careers at the company and prevents the company from becoming a revolving door "contractor pilot" airline. This is why, despite 10-20 years of previous experience before being hired at our company, we continue to invest in their training and qualifications for the long term and want to retain pilots until retirement to benefit from those investments and the value they bring to the company, and because it is so difficult, costly and time-consuming to replace pilots who leave and far more efficient to retain pilots with excellent pay and benefit that remain excellent.
We agree that pilots are paid much less early in their careers at the company and that we motivate and encourage them to stay with the company, rather than take their qualifications and experience to the highest bidder elsewhere, though the use of this seniority-based system that makes pilots want to invest decades of their lives at the company in order to attain the highest pay levels. This is very beneficial to the company, so we provide a table of annual pay increments and agree that increasing the value of that table from time to time, in a manner similar to pay rises given to other employee groups, is necessary in order to compensate for inflation, cost of living and to remain competitive in the market. In fact, we agree that doing so is more necessary for pilots than most employee groups, because of the value of the investment the company makes in each pilot as well as the risk the pilot takes in sticking with the company for decades while the option of changing airlines quickly becomes less and less valuable. We see this as a mutually beneficial situation that requires the proper level of company contribution.
Because we recognize that pilots are at the very front operational lines when it comes to the complex flying of our large fleet of large aircraft, and because pilots are the very final experts, professionals and authorities in the safe operation of our aircraft, we place tremendous value in pilots for upholding our #1 stated corporate priority, which is safety.
For the removal of any doubt, once again, we, the company, agree that an annual pay increment on the pilot pay scale is not a pay rise, but rather simply a step up the seniority-based pay system that is promised to pilots to reward their longevity and to increasingly encourage long careers at the company as the pilot becomes increasing more valuable as more and more investment by the company has been made in their ongoing training and experience, and as more and more risk has been taken by the pilots who choose to continue to offer their services to the company.
Furthermore, we will immediately issue a press release and a company-wide statement to clarify the misconception that we are responsible for creating in order to lower pilots' expectations of a pay rise."
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Relativities
He talks of the "relativities" between pilots pay and that of other employees and I agree that that should be maintained, it is disingenuous to claim that it is distorted by our incremental pay scale. There are only two or three points on our scale which should considered, the most junior SO pay, maybe the DEFO point, and the most Senior Captain. If their pay is to remain static relative to other employees then they should obviously get the same pay rise. The rest of us should fit in somewhere on a sliding scale between, at present that is done using an annual incremental scale. If they dislike this so much then it can easily be called something else aided by some nonsensical management jargon thrown in for good measure.
