When will enough be truly enough?
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When will enough be truly enough?
Just wondering how much more we will take??? The FAU was willing to strike after being told a change in their bid system was forthcoming and the company backed down. In the last two years this is what has happended to us;
Direct entry captains...(we should have said no to this but the AOA signed off on this)
COS 08... only for new hires but we now know the real story.
Forced SLS...(AOA signed off on this too)
Continual violations of our COS... ex, if you are not on COS 08 you cannot prefer port. If you change your PX, which they often use to reduce EFP, you lose your credit. Crew being abandoned in stations with no hotel told not entitled but falling asleep in lobbies in uniform. We can no longer wear it off duty now.
Bypass pay... Lies by the company
Now we are going to watch more of our jobs sent to other carriers, Air China for one. Recently, heard that a question was asked of another managment liar about additional aircraft to Air China. What happens after the 4 BCF's. Answer, as the -8's arrive more B747's will go to Air China. Air China is advertising all over the internet for crews. THESE ARE OUR JOBS!
How much more will we take until we say enough is enough. Threatening to take them to court and the recent media blitz isn't enough. It's time to get the same set of balls our F/A's have as well as the BA F/A's.
Direct entry captains...(we should have said no to this but the AOA signed off on this)
COS 08... only for new hires but we now know the real story.
Forced SLS...(AOA signed off on this too)
Continual violations of our COS... ex, if you are not on COS 08 you cannot prefer port. If you change your PX, which they often use to reduce EFP, you lose your credit. Crew being abandoned in stations with no hotel told not entitled but falling asleep in lobbies in uniform. We can no longer wear it off duty now.
Bypass pay... Lies by the company
Now we are going to watch more of our jobs sent to other carriers, Air China for one. Recently, heard that a question was asked of another managment liar about additional aircraft to Air China. What happens after the 4 BCF's. Answer, as the -8's arrive more B747's will go to Air China. Air China is advertising all over the internet for crews. THESE ARE OUR JOBS!
How much more will we take until we say enough is enough. Threatening to take them to court and the recent media blitz isn't enough. It's time to get the same set of balls our F/A's have as well as the BA F/A's.
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and remember that we're fighting just to defend or receive what is legally ours, let alone trying to get anything more.... Payrise, Rostering Practices & AFTLS, properly and honestly negotiated contract changes, Housing etc
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The FAU were sucessful because they are a union. Now I know that many in CX won't understand what that means, so I have cut and pasted a definition from a dictionary website.
"union - definition of union - An organization of workers joined to protect their common interests and improve their working conditions."
Now does that sound like the AOA? No. We look more like something from the Life of Brian - the Peoples Front of Judea wanting to beat the crap out of the Judean Peoples Front while the Romans shaft us from behind.
Until we can learn to forgive and forget all our differences, get the membership percentage higher and be able to bargain with management from a position of strength, we are going to continue to watch our Ts and Cs erode.
It's our choice.
"union - definition of union - An organization of workers joined to protect their common interests and improve their working conditions."
Now does that sound like the AOA? No. We look more like something from the Life of Brian - the Peoples Front of Judea wanting to beat the crap out of the Judean Peoples Front while the Romans shaft us from behind.
Until we can learn to forgive and forget all our differences, get the membership percentage higher and be able to bargain with management from a position of strength, we are going to continue to watch our Ts and Cs erode.
It's our choice.
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While not trying to reduce the effectiveness of the FAU, the reality is very few of them have as far to fall as we do. Perhaps for the ISMs and SPs, it is a difficult job to replace, but for the rest it doesn't take much to make up for the loss of their job. I am 100% supportive of the AOA, and I do feel we are horribly ineffective in many ways, but you are comparing apples and oranges.
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You are 100% correct, but they also know they have some of the strongest work protections on this planet. I am willing to go toe-to-toe with anyone for us to better our position, and trust me, I believe it is FAR OVERDUE. The problems are 1) We still need a stronger membership, and LEADERSHIP 2)We don't enjoy nearly the level of protections that the Europeans do.
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We have to do something and soon. This is becoming a joke!
We need more professionals to Neg.
We need to brain storm ways & solutions to this..
I heard they are sending out Rumors that their will be no more S/O hires.
Only Cadets, on local terms. (Applications are still coming in, interviews are solid )
C Scale is here.. What are u going to do about it?
1) Say it does not effect me - Wrong, in time it will be like the Devils Shadow eroding everything you think is secure today!
49 Case, Air China -- hymm, Direct entry Captains, Bye Pass pay, Housing lobbying, Inflation, Cos08, RA 65, basings, Intimidation!
Be Smart! And stay on the Big Picture... We need PROFESSIONAL HELP!
We have problems chaps big problems!!!
We need more professionals to Neg.
We need to brain storm ways & solutions to this..
I heard they are sending out Rumors that their will be no more S/O hires.
Only Cadets, on local terms. (Applications are still coming in, interviews are solid )
C Scale is here.. What are u going to do about it?
1) Say it does not effect me - Wrong, in time it will be like the Devils Shadow eroding everything you think is secure today!
49 Case, Air China -- hymm, Direct entry Captains, Bye Pass pay, Housing lobbying, Inflation, Cos08, RA 65, basings, Intimidation!
Be Smart! And stay on the Big Picture... We need PROFESSIONAL HELP!
We have problems chaps big problems!!!
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You don't need professionals. Try testicles.
YouTube - Flight Attendant Union EGM emergency meeting 19 March, 2010
YouTube - Flight Attendant Union EGM emergency meeting 19 March, 2010
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When Are We Getting A Payrise.
When Will The Aoa Stop Writing Childish Emails.
When Do I Get My Payrise .
When Will The Aoa Stop Cracking This Old Chestnut Line.
When Do I Get My Payrise.
When Will The Aoa Send Me A Decent Constructive Email, With Out Committee Titbits Written By Wtf.
Blah Blah Blah The List Goes On.....
When Will The Aoa Stop Writing Childish Emails.
When Do I Get My Payrise .
When Will The Aoa Stop Cracking This Old Chestnut Line.
When Do I Get My Payrise.
When Will The Aoa Send Me A Decent Constructive Email, With Out Committee Titbits Written By Wtf.
Blah Blah Blah The List Goes On.....
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How about voicing your opinions on the AOA site. There are a lot of good valid points here, but they will all fall on deaf ears here. At least if it is on an AOA forum the GC will be aware of your gripe.
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Until there is a fundamental change in the way we operate the AOA then there is no point.Our committee is run like the international whaling committee, i.e useless.
Soon hopefully everyone will get it.
Until we have a board of directors made up of lawyers and industrial advisors who sit on top of the committee, we are going nowhere .Just the same old story.
Soon hopefully everyone will get it.
Until we have a board of directors made up of lawyers and industrial advisors who sit on top of the committee, we are going nowhere .Just the same old story.
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So goathead, let me get this straight. You think we would be likely to achieve more if we employ a bunch of professionals who would form a "board of directors"? Any idea of the costs you'd find acceptable to achieve this with respect to increased subscriptions?
Professional advice sounds brilliant in theory but there are 2 factors which weigh heavily against any possible tangible benefit from the added expense:
1. We're not a "closed shop" and, therefore, will never have 100% membership.
2. As a direct result of 1 above, there will only ever be a limited amount of risk that individual members will be prepared to take, regardless of the "professionalism" of the advice or instruction.
What we need is not increased cost but increased membership. As someone else has pointed out, if you don't like the way the Association is going at the moment you should put your name forward in the upcoming GC elections.
Any union is only as strong as its membership, both in numbers and attitude.
STP
Professional advice sounds brilliant in theory but there are 2 factors which weigh heavily against any possible tangible benefit from the added expense:
1. We're not a "closed shop" and, therefore, will never have 100% membership.
2. As a direct result of 1 above, there will only ever be a limited amount of risk that individual members will be prepared to take, regardless of the "professionalism" of the advice or instruction.
What we need is not increased cost but increased membership. As someone else has pointed out, if you don't like the way the Association is going at the moment you should put your name forward in the upcoming GC elections.
Any union is only as strong as its membership, both in numbers and attitude.
STP
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Dose of reality??
Go to the threads various on pprune regarding the success or otherwise of the BA Cabin crew strike.
Have a good read and then walk around Kitty City and see how many of your fellow pilots are wearing their AOA lanyards. Perhaps sky blue is just not their colour??
As for the FAU; how would their sabre-rattling progress if Toeknee borrowed a play from "Willie's book of tricks" and threatened/promised that any cabin crew who went on strike would have their ID travel permanently removed?
Get real.....
Have a good read and then walk around Kitty City and see how many of your fellow pilots are wearing their AOA lanyards. Perhaps sky blue is just not their colour??
As for the FAU; how would their sabre-rattling progress if Toeknee borrowed a play from "Willie's book of tricks" and threatened/promised that any cabin crew who went on strike would have their ID travel permanently removed?
Get real.....
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Liam, your right!
I think there is a certain fear factor (how extraordinary!) at Kitty City that makes some not wear ones new blue lanyard.
Had a very interesting chat with a chap from another very close airline recently who has considerable union background and it would seem there are ways of getting around the expensive external negotiator way of doing things, but it takes a concerted effort by all members and committee players to participate, and it doesn't amount to strike action, nor any other simplistic actions like sick outs.
The legal process is usually the best, but it must be on going, with good resourced individuals and support. Bleating over pprune doesn't amount to much.
Had a very interesting chat with a chap from another very close airline recently who has considerable union background and it would seem there are ways of getting around the expensive external negotiator way of doing things, but it takes a concerted effort by all members and committee players to participate, and it doesn't amount to strike action, nor any other simplistic actions like sick outs.
The legal process is usually the best, but it must be on going, with good resourced individuals and support. Bleating over pprune doesn't amount to much.
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Bleating is good what is wrong with it , it raises good points on both sides .
STP good points , but I just don't see the committee really getting too many results, i.e where is the 25 yr housing ? where is the payrise we all deserve?
Why is it taking soooo long to get these things done ?
What are the numbers involved in getting some professional help? you tell me ? what does the AOA take in subs per month ? must be over 1.5mill right ? So why can't we afford it ?
The problem with committees is that there is too much personal agendas , however well intended and it all gets left behind on the sidelines on what are the facts on what should be solved first.Thats why i'm just not interested in banging my head against a wall.How often are you guys togethor? Once every 6 months ? It's amateur we need more constant work at this one , not a meeting every 6 months or whatever ....
STP good points , but I just don't see the committee really getting too many results, i.e where is the 25 yr housing ? where is the payrise we all deserve?
Why is it taking soooo long to get these things done ?
What are the numbers involved in getting some professional help? you tell me ? what does the AOA take in subs per month ? must be over 1.5mill right ? So why can't we afford it ?
The problem with committees is that there is too much personal agendas , however well intended and it all gets left behind on the sidelines on what are the facts on what should be solved first.Thats why i'm just not interested in banging my head against a wall.How often are you guys togethor? Once every 6 months ? It's amateur we need more constant work at this one , not a meeting every 6 months or whatever ....