Judgement in the 49ers case: 11/11/09
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Just a thought.
Since the AoA and others let them go, is it worth looking at joining the 49's union?
Dont critisize just food for thought.
Maybe the Cathaypacific union is more relevant to us.
We as a group are yet unified, this concerns me, and before you start, I belong to the AOA
Since the AoA and others let them go, is it worth looking at joining the 49's union?
Dont critisize just food for thought.
Maybe the Cathaypacific union is more relevant to us.
We as a group are yet unified, this concerns me, and before you start, I belong to the AOA
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40*S,
I understand your point (thought), however, I recall our DFO clearly expressing to us, when the CPU was formed and asking us to consider joining, that CX would not accept them as a body of representation (not his exact words), and that CX would negotiate and deal solely with the AOA.
Now having said that, imagine if say 70% or greater decided to now join the CPU - would the Company change its mind or would they be going through Hong Kong's legal system to get things done?
I understand your point (thought), however, I recall our DFO clearly expressing to us, when the CPU was formed and asking us to consider joining, that CX would not accept them as a body of representation (not his exact words), and that CX would negotiate and deal solely with the AOA.
Now having said that, imagine if say 70% or greater decided to now join the CPU - would the Company change its mind or would they be going through Hong Kong's legal system to get things done?
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40s, aren't you getting confused as to the purpose of a union. Granted the court awarded to the 18 but how does that fit in with negotiating a better contract? Do we run to court when we want a 5% pay increase. I don't see any connection between the two.
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Reading the judgment it didn't appear the Judge felt they prejuried themselves. But gave contradictory evidence, and from his intent the examination of the defendants was so thorough that there stories very quickly showed holes as big as the grand canyon.
The interesting implications was the judges discussion on the Employment Ord. He gave the impression that Cathay was in breach of the Ord. If thats the case then the Labour Department implications is that they could pursue Cathay for those breaches.
But then there high level Mates will save their asses from that happening.
For the CPU and those 18...well done. Been sending my donations and hopes that you would win and thus discourage ever again this bull****.
Keeping score
The interesting implications was the judges discussion on the Employment Ord. He gave the impression that Cathay was in breach of the Ord. If thats the case then the Labour Department implications is that they could pursue Cathay for those breaches.
But then there high level Mates will save their asses from that happening.
For the CPU and those 18...well done. Been sending my donations and hopes that you would win and thus discourage ever again this bull****.
Keeping score
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Stillalbatross, i think its you who are indeed confused about the purpose of a union. Its seems like the years of inaction by the AOA has accustomed you apathy.
You just dont join one cause its the only thing available. You belong to a union that has shown nothing positive ever since giving up on the 49s. You dutifully pay your dues, yet receive nothing in return.
You say "how does that fit in with negotiating a better contract"? How does the AOA fit in? What improvements to the contract have you seen?
At least the CPU gets things done. Show positive results and returns. If they were companies, which would you rather own stock in? Certainly not the AOgAy.
You just dont join one cause its the only thing available. You belong to a union that has shown nothing positive ever since giving up on the 49s. You dutifully pay your dues, yet receive nothing in return.
You say "how does that fit in with negotiating a better contract"? How does the AOA fit in? What improvements to the contract have you seen?
At least the CPU gets things done. Show positive results and returns. If they were companies, which would you rather own stock in? Certainly not the AOgAy.
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The AOA is just a democratic representation of the pilot body. If most of us voted no to the deal for the 49 ers then we would have continued down that course. The fact is, most of the pilot body voted to accept the deal, rightly or wrongly, hence why the AOA accepted it. We could argue about the then GC's influence in the vote but at the end of the day the choice was ours.
I voted against accepting but realised i was in the minority at the time, that's life.
The guys of the CPU have done a great job, congrats to them all!! They deserve all the accolades they receive! AOA, i hope you are taking notes!
I voted against accepting but realised i was in the minority at the time, that's life.
The guys of the CPU have done a great job, congrats to them all!! They deserve all the accolades they receive! AOA, i hope you are taking notes!
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Fallen Gods
Para 146 of the Judgement.
"There is more to Hong Kong than just Cathay".
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM that must be a bitter pill to swallow for those Ivory tower icons who thought they would never have to answer for their actions.
The Judgement should definitely spark off an investigation into a possible breach of the EO. I dont think an appeal will rise as there was no defence, or at least no one willing to tell porky's to save CXs butt. Judge Reyes got to the kernel of the issue quickly. Examination of evidence was direct and probing.
Well done to all. Its a great day for Labour Law in Hong Kong. Justice was done and Management got a good kick up the a#se for not following due and fair procedure.
"There is more to Hong Kong than just Cathay".
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM that must be a bitter pill to swallow for those Ivory tower icons who thought they would never have to answer for their actions.
The Judgement should definitely spark off an investigation into a possible breach of the EO. I dont think an appeal will rise as there was no defence, or at least no one willing to tell porky's to save CXs butt. Judge Reyes got to the kernel of the issue quickly. Examination of evidence was direct and probing.
Well done to all. Its a great day for Labour Law in Hong Kong. Justice was done and Management got a good kick up the a#se for not following due and fair procedure.
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Further Court Cases
This might not be the last judgement.
I hear from a good source a female pilot who was fired on her first day back at work following maternity leave has secured the services of the CPU lawyer
and has Baby Sutch, The poisoned preacher and Nick ( the bully ) M in his sights.
This one will be interesting
I hear from a good source a female pilot who was fired on her first day back at work following maternity leave has secured the services of the CPU lawyer
and has Baby Sutch, The poisoned preacher and Nick ( the bully ) M in his sights.
This one will be interesting
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This CPU vs AoAstuff is off the mark. The decision by the members of the Aoa to stop give money to the 49ers after 2 years was reasonable. How long did anyone expect to be supported? It's 2 years more than the vast majority of people would get in any industry. They got a fair go by the members. Given that the relationship with the company had to move on over the years it is unreasonable to expect the AoA itself put itself as the backers of the court cases. Therein lies the the CPU. Anyone consider that the CPU in reality could be an AoA idea to carry the cases forward? Could easily be. I also remember ND saying in a printed article somewhere that as soon as the court cases finish the CPU would end. Watch this space.
I am thrilled that the 49ers won this case and no, I am not asking for my money back from them.
I am thrilled that the 49ers won this case and no, I am not asking for my money back from them.
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They have got out of this lightly as far as money is concerned.
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Cynically, what Cathay may have learned from all this is:
When you fire someone, keep quiet.
Even Reyes pointed out that Cathay can go through D&G, then fire somebody without cause, but three months notice.
When you fire someone, keep quiet.
Even Reyes pointed out that Cathay can go through D&G, then fire somebody without cause, but three months notice.
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We will appeal and we will win. You think you have won the war but it is just a battle. We will win in the end.
This episode will end in our favor. We will appeal and when it goes to the High Court, we will prevail. You are only mere pilots or bus drivers, if we don’t need you, we would not have you. You are a necessary evil and we will do what we want.
This is not over and the DFO has every confidence that he will prevail. He will have the support of the Swire Group [and he will not be held accountable}. He is immune to Hong Kong Law. He works for Swire and they will protect him.
This money will be deducted from your SLS, so we don’t really have to pay anything. You actually paid for this payment.
To My Bonus.
The Management
This episode will end in our favor. We will appeal and when it goes to the High Court, we will prevail. You are only mere pilots or bus drivers, if we don’t need you, we would not have you. You are a necessary evil and we will do what we want.
This is not over and the DFO has every confidence that he will prevail. He will have the support of the Swire Group [and he will not be held accountable}. He is immune to Hong Kong Law. He works for Swire and they will protect him.
This money will be deducted from your SLS, so we don’t really have to pay anything. You actually paid for this payment.
To My Bonus.
The Management
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We will appeal and we will win. You think you have won the war but it is just a battle. We will win in the end.
This episode will end in our favor. We will appeal and when it goes to the High Court, we will prevail. You are only mere pilots or bus drivers, if we don’t need you, we would not have you. You are a necessary evil and we will do what we want.
This is not over and the DFO has every confidence that he will prevail. He will have the support of the Swire Group [and he will not be held accountable}. He is immune to Hong Kong Law. He works for Swire and they will protect him.
This money will be deducted from your SLS, so we don’t really have to pay anything. You actually paid for this payment.
To My Bonus.
The Management
This episode will end in our favor. We will appeal and when it goes to the High Court, we will prevail. You are only mere pilots or bus drivers, if we don’t need you, we would not have you. You are a necessary evil and we will do what we want.
This is not over and the DFO has every confidence that he will prevail. He will have the support of the Swire Group [and he will not be held accountable}. He is immune to Hong Kong Law. He works for Swire and they will protect him.
This money will be deducted from your SLS, so we don’t really have to pay anything. You actually paid for this payment.
To My Bonus.
The Management
A simple answer to my question would have sufficed 'Liam G' 
Not being a CX Pilot myself I was curious as to why only 18 Pilots were awarded a judgement and not the entire 49.
Good for them, although I think the award is far short of what it should be.
Not being a CX Pilot myself I was curious as to why only 18 Pilots were awarded a judgement and not the entire 49.
Good for them, although I think the award is far short of what it should be.
Last edited by stilton; 12th Nov 2009 at 06:46.
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The management is sort of sounding like a stuck record.......and he cant even get the facts right....THAT WAS THE HIGH COURT.
The next stage for management if they are suckers for more humilation is the Court of FINAL APPEAL.
Keeping Score.
The next stage for management if they are suckers for more humilation is the Court of FINAL APPEAL.
Keeping Score.