Is being a pilot still a worthwhile career for newcomers?
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Wakeupcall,
The problem with wannabes (generally speaking) is that they still think that being a pilot has the glamour that it did in the 70s. A status that was highly respected, a salary (where at the time) was amazing. Passengers actually listened whenever the Captain addressed the cabin rather than yabbering on and on. And, lets not forget, a stunning hostess as a wife.
The fact that your first point was related to salary demonstrates this. When I initially wanted to be a pilot, I did not care about the salary. I had a father who was made redundant three times as a pilot, and which ultimately destroyed his marriage. In the end, at the tender age of 50, he had enough of the aviation industry because "he was being spitroasted -
ed at both ends!"
In terms of salary, unless you are the CP of a major legacy carrier (or any carrier) your pay would never reach the heights that it once did. But by no means will you have a salary on par with a taxi driver, or a lorry driver!
I just can't understand posts like this. No one sets out to be a pilot for the money. I'm sorry if other current pilots disagree but this is not a job. Its a vocation. Doctors don't become doctors for the money.
My advice is that if you want to be rich, then don't become a pilot.
The problem with wannabes (generally speaking) is that they still think that being a pilot has the glamour that it did in the 70s. A status that was highly respected, a salary (where at the time) was amazing. Passengers actually listened whenever the Captain addressed the cabin rather than yabbering on and on. And, lets not forget, a stunning hostess as a wife.
The fact that your first point was related to salary demonstrates this. When I initially wanted to be a pilot, I did not care about the salary. I had a father who was made redundant three times as a pilot, and which ultimately destroyed his marriage. In the end, at the tender age of 50, he had enough of the aviation industry because "he was being spitroasted -
ed at both ends!"In terms of salary, unless you are the CP of a major legacy carrier (or any carrier) your pay would never reach the heights that it once did. But by no means will you have a salary on par with a taxi driver, or a lorry driver!
I just can't understand posts like this. No one sets out to be a pilot for the money. I'm sorry if other current pilots disagree but this is not a job. Its a vocation. Doctors don't become doctors for the money.
My advice is that if you want to be rich, then don't become a pilot.
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Wakeupcall,
If you sometimes look up to the sky and see a beautiful 744, 777 or even an Airbus, and you say to yourself, 'f~~ck me, I'd love to do that,' then go for it!
It's not a perfect job, but until you've tried it, you'll be miserable wondering what it's like.
Just a thought.
'RM
If you sometimes look up to the sky and see a beautiful 744, 777 or even an Airbus, and you say to yourself, 'f~~ck me, I'd love to do that,' then go for it!
It's not a perfect job, but until you've tried it, you'll be miserable wondering what it's like.
Just a thought.
'RM
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Is it still worth being an airline pilot?
This is a question which almost every generation asks the preceding generation, about almost every career.
My father had a fairly good run with his flying career culminating in a comfortable retirement in Europe. He supported my evident enthusiasm for flying throughout my teens with a sensible mix of encouragement and realism.
I have been flying for a living for 19 years now, and have never seriously doubted my choices. For me it was and is all about flying. I love flying and enjoy working with guys/girls who are there for the same reason. However the economic "rain on my parade" during the last decade or so definitely leave me with a feeling that I am working in a dying profession.
It is interesting to note that the people I graduated University with in the mid-late 80's have encountered similar career disappointment. While I have gone through considerable "angst" through this period I remain basically happy to end up flying wide-body jets from the left hand seat.
Most of my Uni mates were chemical engineers, who seemed to have a future paved with gold in the mid-80's in Europe. Sadly that all changed when the iron curtain came down in 1989 onward. Not a single one remains in their career field 20 year's later, with multiple redundancies, interim commutes and periods of uncertainty ensuing. So all careers are now facing the same insecurities etc.
My advice is, if you are exclusively obsessed about flying above all else, then go for it. If not,then do something else.
My father had a fairly good run with his flying career culminating in a comfortable retirement in Europe. He supported my evident enthusiasm for flying throughout my teens with a sensible mix of encouragement and realism.
I have been flying for a living for 19 years now, and have never seriously doubted my choices. For me it was and is all about flying. I love flying and enjoy working with guys/girls who are there for the same reason. However the economic "rain on my parade" during the last decade or so definitely leave me with a feeling that I am working in a dying profession.
It is interesting to note that the people I graduated University with in the mid-late 80's have encountered similar career disappointment. While I have gone through considerable "angst" through this period I remain basically happy to end up flying wide-body jets from the left hand seat.
Most of my Uni mates were chemical engineers, who seemed to have a future paved with gold in the mid-80's in Europe. Sadly that all changed when the iron curtain came down in 1989 onward. Not a single one remains in their career field 20 year's later, with multiple redundancies, interim commutes and periods of uncertainty ensuing. So all careers are now facing the same insecurities etc.
My advice is, if you are exclusively obsessed about flying above all else, then go for it. If not,then do something else.
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KAG, if there's going to be no oil in 20 yrs the world is going to come to a screeching halt, I don't think so and I'm not in denial! They will have a replacement or we are all in deep trouble regardless of your area of work and again, I'm not anywhere near convinced that will happen.
If I were a young 20 years old boy asking around if becoming a pilot is worth it, it would mean that I want a flawless career. And we cannot tell him that during all his 45 years of future career he, for sure, won' t have any difficulties related to oil supply. It would be lying to him. So that is why I suggested him to do some more research concerning fuel.
If in the future the production decrease, even a bit, we won' t be able to buy oil the price we buy it today. It is a real possibility. And you are smart enough to figure out what would be the result on somebody' s pilot career.
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Whatdoyawantado?
1. If you sincerely have no affection for aviation and airplanes do not move
you at all, please do something else.
2. While it is true that flying does not require a stellar intellect or college-
level math, it does require a general competence. You also had better give
a few thoughts to those pesky passengers. Their lives, all of them, are in
your hands, and their safety is the top priority. If you lack the ability to
delegate, or you simply come unglued at red traffic lights, please do something else.
3. I really like my job. There are few other jobs I care to be paid to do. They make better hobbies. If you can make better bucks not flying, and
fly for fun, then do that. But don't belittle pilots by saying they can't do
anything else. High-time pro aviators have a broad-base of skills and can
do almost any job, though they may not like it. Go find the ALPA "Pilot
Personality Description." Is that you?
Lastly, it is highly unlikely you'll end up anywhere near what you wanted.
But making the best of it is what matters. Good luck.
you at all, please do something else.
2. While it is true that flying does not require a stellar intellect or college-
level math, it does require a general competence. You also had better give
a few thoughts to those pesky passengers. Their lives, all of them, are in
your hands, and their safety is the top priority. If you lack the ability to
delegate, or you simply come unglued at red traffic lights, please do something else.
3. I really like my job. There are few other jobs I care to be paid to do. They make better hobbies. If you can make better bucks not flying, and
fly for fun, then do that. But don't belittle pilots by saying they can't do
anything else. High-time pro aviators have a broad-base of skills and can
do almost any job, though they may not like it. Go find the ALPA "Pilot
Personality Description." Is that you?
Lastly, it is highly unlikely you'll end up anywhere near what you wanted.
But making the best of it is what matters. Good luck.
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Thank you very much for your opinions. I truly appreciate them.
Note: I did not say I want to be a pilot because of money (clearly...it is not possible). I just want to do what I love, have a loving family in the future, and at least live comfortably (middle to upper middle class..). It is the last point that I worry about. I have concerns about the future of this profession.
And yeah... Every time I see a boeing/airbus in the sky, I have always wondered what it is like to control one
. But, it is hard to gauge how long my excitement can last. (it is like... you know a girl that you thought you could love forever... but after a few years.. you start to question your choice.) That is why I am seeking advices from the previous generation.
Note: I did not say I want to be a pilot because of money (clearly...it is not possible). I just want to do what I love, have a loving family in the future, and at least live comfortably (middle to upper middle class..). It is the last point that I worry about. I have concerns about the future of this profession.
And yeah... Every time I see a boeing/airbus in the sky, I have always wondered what it is like to control one
. But, it is hard to gauge how long my excitement can last. (it is like... you know a girl that you thought you could love forever... but after a few years.. you start to question your choice.) That is why I am seeking advices from the previous generation.
Last edited by wakeupcall; 22nd Jun 2009 at 20:11.
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it is like... you know a girl that you thought you could love forever... but after a few years.. you start to question your choice
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The very fact you are asking these questions means that flying is not for you!
Sounds more like wanting to fly for the supposed "kudos" and money rather than really "wanting" to fly. Go do something else as you will not cope with all the stress and checking that you would have to go through in a flying career.
Sounds more like wanting to fly for the supposed "kudos" and money rather than really "wanting" to fly. Go do something else as you will not cope with all the stress and checking that you would have to go through in a flying career.
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Sorry KAG, I wasn't meaning to come across so literally and I didn't think you meant it they way either. However, I still don't think the oil situation is going to have an extreme effect on aviation, they are already looking at blends to replace avtur and 20 yrs is a long time to research that. Plus I think it's likely if availability did become an issue aviation would likely have priority use compared to other industries which wouldn't have the same sort of fuel replacement issues. Would there be some effect, sure, but just as likely to have no more effect than the intro of wide bodies, world economy problems etc. How it affects you, like always, will depend on when you entered the industry. Wakeupcall would be damn close to command, so it might slow it down, but no different to any other event that could have the same impact on his flying career or any other number of careers.
Boeing and Airbus have a lot at stake when it comes to aviation and will do whatever is needed to limit any impact on aircraft sales and therefor their share prices. Both companies have substantial clout within their political arenas, while tourism has a large economical impact throughout the world.
No, I'm not smart enough to work out an accurate impact on a piloting career, that's just the point, no one can as you'd need to define the extent of the problem to do so which is unknown! Just like you couldn't work out the impact on a lot of careers that would be similarly affected, but I can have an educated guess, which is all any of us can do.
The head of BP was recently quoted as stating that the demand of oil was falling and would continue to do so for some time. Anything can happen.
Boeing and Airbus have a lot at stake when it comes to aviation and will do whatever is needed to limit any impact on aircraft sales and therefor their share prices. Both companies have substantial clout within their political arenas, while tourism has a large economical impact throughout the world.
No, I'm not smart enough to work out an accurate impact on a piloting career, that's just the point, no one can as you'd need to define the extent of the problem to do so which is unknown! Just like you couldn't work out the impact on a lot of careers that would be similarly affected, but I can have an educated guess, which is all any of us can do.
The head of BP was recently quoted as stating that the demand of oil was falling and would continue to do so for some time. Anything can happen.
Last edited by FOCX; 23rd Jun 2009 at 05:21.
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I find it hilarious that some guys really think they get away with " flying is not about money, it is a passion, bla bla bla". I don't buy a single word of what you are saying. If that would be true you wouldn't be in CX or/and in Hong Kong. There is not a single soul in Hong Hong that isn't in it for the money, and that includes the locals. Our conditions of service deteriorate constantly, time to command now 15+ years,the money gets worse and worse, and you don't care ??
What a joke.
And by the way, doctors DO care about the money, or why do you think there are western docs in Dubai, Rhyad or Hong Kong ? Because of the better climate, ey?
What a joke.
And by the way, doctors DO care about the money, or why do you think there are western docs in Dubai, Rhyad or Hong Kong ? Because of the better climate, ey?
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SISYPHOS
We are NOT all like you my friend. Money was definitely not the reason I wanted to fly, it was also NOT the reason for coming to HK. Speak for yourself with your comments.
GEN X are we?
We are NOT all like you my friend. Money was definitely not the reason I wanted to fly, it was also NOT the reason for coming to HK. Speak for yourself with your comments.
GEN X are we?
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Sisyphos,
If you look at how hard doctors work, the years of studying and the constant assessments, if they wanted money then for that same amount of hard work, dedication and studying, it would be better for them to do an MBA and be earning shed loads more than being a doctor.
The reason why, taking your example, they move is because they can earn more money doing something they are already doing! Now that is a completely different concept to training for a career in the first place because "of the money".
Just because I was a pilot earning so-so $ in the Philippines, should I just have stayed there flying 732s? No I moved to a larger airline flying bigger pieces of kit, more responsibility and more money that inevitably comes with a legacy carrier.
But I never started out in the business for the money. My experience about the "rewards" of flying was my dad being made redundant 3 times, hardly ever seeing him, and divorced parents.
Lining up a 744 and calling out EPR set is better than sex.
If you look at how hard doctors work, the years of studying and the constant assessments, if they wanted money then for that same amount of hard work, dedication and studying, it would be better for them to do an MBA and be earning shed loads more than being a doctor.
The reason why, taking your example, they move is because they can earn more money doing something they are already doing! Now that is a completely different concept to training for a career in the first place because "of the money".
Just because I was a pilot earning so-so $ in the Philippines, should I just have stayed there flying 732s? No I moved to a larger airline flying bigger pieces of kit, more responsibility and more money that inevitably comes with a legacy carrier.
But I never started out in the business for the money. My experience about the "rewards" of flying was my dad being made redundant 3 times, hardly ever seeing him, and divorced parents.
Lining up a 744 and calling out EPR set is better than sex.
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Well, and regarding those gentlemen who don't care about the money, just are still thrilled by sitting on their (fat) bottoms for hours and hours and call "check" once in a while, no problem, I am happy for you. Enjoy it while it last, but don't complain when you eventually end up with a bus drivers salary and three-men crew to New York etc etc, hey, you are still flying, that's great, who needs money anyway.
But if my sons would ask me if I would recommend this job I would say no.
But if my sons would ask me if I would recommend this job I would say no.
Last edited by sisyphos; 23rd Jun 2009 at 14:45.
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sisyphos
You are at it again, you might have a fat arse not all of us do! We are not all as bitter and twisted as you some of us just make the best of what we have - life is too short are you a glass half empty man?
You are at it again, you might have a fat arse not all of us do! We are not all as bitter and twisted as you some of us just make the best of what we have - life is too short are you a glass half empty man?