Relief crew rest
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Relief crew rest
Copy and paste from my groupwise yesterday (names removed); for a midnight departure to Europe with all HKG based crew....
"This mail is sent to you by XXXXXX via CrewDirect.
Dear XXXX, for your planning on our flight on Xth, I will work the first 2 hours and last 3 hours and take my rest in-between. The net effect is we all get a good rest! See you on XXX RGDS XXXXXX"
HOW DO WE ALL GET A GOOD REST CAPT PAJAMAS?
AFL
"This mail is sent to you by XXXXXX via CrewDirect.
Dear XXXX, for your planning on our flight on Xth, I will work the first 2 hours and last 3 hours and take my rest in-between. The net effect is we all get a good rest! See you on XXX RGDS XXXXXX"
HOW DO WE ALL GET A GOOD REST CAPT PAJAMAS?
AFL
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Gee thanks Kent, funny hadn't thought about that mmm..... By the way thanks for the groupwise about the rest your silk pj's would have been placed in your mailbox today but since it is locked you can collect from central registry.
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At least you got an email. How about being HKG based with a bunch of LAX based guys to get the big 'you know what, Im feeling pretty good, I think I'll work first' - for an afternoon dep out of HKG. Nice one fella's...
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Oh come on.....inflight rest has been contentious since we started doing longhaul. Either speak up and sort it out at the time or take what's given.
Whinging on here accomplishes nothing. We all know it goes on from time to time.
Whinging on here accomplishes nothing. We all know it goes on from time to time.
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I'm a bit surprised to see people still buggering about with rest on long haul. I count myself lucky that it was company policy where I worked to split it down the middle on such flights and be sure to tell your oppo what everyone was doing in good time before the flight to enable proper rest.
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Oh come on.....inflight rest has been contentious since we started doing longhaul. Either speak up and sort it out at the time or take what's given.
Whinging on here accomplishes nothing. We all know it goes on from time to time.
Whinging on here accomplishes nothing. We all know it goes on from time to time.
But what ever happened to common courtesy?
All it takes is a simple 'hey guys how are you feeling for rest' or notice for a second that part of the crew might have stayed on a different time zone. Its not hard, I always ask to avoid any resentment... or if youre planning on doing opposite rest to what would be expected by a based/non based crew, drop them an email. Easy.
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there are some guys out there who ALWAYS email early and let you know what is going on for rest...thanks!
"No need to email me about rest, with London based guys it is pretty obvious you will rest first!"
"True, but you have been in the SIm all week and i have absolutely no idea what time zone you are on or want to stay on"
"Well....you should be able to come to work and be ready to rest first or second anyway"
true.....we have to be ready to do as directed....but i think that last line comes from a chap who probably has not had to rest when he didnt want to for a couple of decades.
"No need to email me about rest, with London based guys it is pretty obvious you will rest first!"
"True, but you have been in the SIm all week and i have absolutely no idea what time zone you are on or want to stay on"
"Well....you should be able to come to work and be ready to rest first or second anyway"
true.....we have to be ready to do as directed....but i think that last line comes from a chap who probably has not had to rest when he didnt want to for a couple of decades.
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Europe based Captains are pricks, always have and always will be.
On an all daylight flight for them, the Captains will always make the HKG based relief pilot work through his Window of Circadian Low/HKG night, while the Captain was watching a movie through his evening. Why? He was the Captain and has no consideration for other crew.
I agree, the Captain has to have the proper rest but when the Captain got to HKG at 0000Z, which was his midnight, he went to bed. If he just got an afternoon nap and flew through his evening the HKG based pilot would be better off.
It you are not going to sleep, go to work. Why watch a movie when you know the pilots up front and craving for sleep.
Why? I can tell you why. It’s all about me and I don’t’ care about anyone else.
Welcome to Cathay Pacific Airways. Leading by example as always.
On an all daylight flight for them, the Captains will always make the HKG based relief pilot work through his Window of Circadian Low/HKG night, while the Captain was watching a movie through his evening. Why? He was the Captain and has no consideration for other crew.
I agree, the Captain has to have the proper rest but when the Captain got to HKG at 0000Z, which was his midnight, he went to bed. If he just got an afternoon nap and flew through his evening the HKG based pilot would be better off.
It you are not going to sleep, go to work. Why watch a movie when you know the pilots up front and craving for sleep.
Why? I can tell you why. It’s all about me and I don’t’ care about anyone else.
Welcome to Cathay Pacific Airways. Leading by example as always.
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Hey mate, try doing an AKL flt as a SO or relief FO. 3 hours total rest, that's 2 hours from SET THRUST plus an hour from TOUCHDOWN. NOT TOC AND TOD. Doesn't matter if they had min rest in HKG or a week of G's in AKL some of the based crew would still tell ya they're pretty neckered.
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..what a bunch of pathetic pansies. yes, flying a big shiny jet is such a difficult job...I imagine your mates back in Aus/NZ/Can/US/UK who do a 9-5 ditch digging job would be very sympathetic. stop whining. when you are captains, you will have your choice. until then, STFU and do your job. have a nice day.
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The whole point of having relief crew is to ensure that the operating crew are sufficiently rested for the approach/landing/possible diversion. That is what we are paid for! Can't handle it? Get a different job.
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The whole point of having relief crew is to ensure that the operating crew are sufficiently rested for the approach/landing/possible diversion.
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Subwoofer
The whole point of the Captain sending an email to the relief crew, advising the intended rest for the flight,
is so you can plan to be rested for your stint in the seat.
is so you can plan to be rested for your stint in the seat.
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The whole point of the Captain sending an email to the relief crew, advising the intended rest for the flight,
is so you can plan to be rested for your stint in the seat.
is so you can plan to be rested for your stint in the seat.
I think subwoofer was bringing attention to the fact that inflight relief is meant so that the whole crew should be rested and alert while at the controls, as opposed to just the two guys in the seat being rested for takeoff and landing (which is how many of our crew interpret in-flight rest requirements).
I definitely agree, an e-mail when planning on doing something non-standard should be a minimum. This also helps if the whole crew is based in the same location. I always thank the Captain for such a courtesy, it certainly makes life easier and it certainly shows good leadership and CRM, which is quite lacking among many at Cathay.
If you are planning on doing what is expected, then an email is not as important but still appreciated.
I forgot where I read it, but I remember some article about noise complaints. It said that people where a lot more understanding when they knew about the noise and how long it would last, than when they where caught by surprise and had no information as to the duration. A little off topic, but somehow I see how this could also apply to other unknown variables, such as rest.
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7700, couldn't agree more that it would be ideal if all crew were adequately rested. However, the reality is that more often than not, one pair will do better than the other, and common sense would clearly dictate that it be guys who are to be in the seat for TO & ldg.
Perhaps AlphaFloors silk pj dude was just erring a little to far away from the big picture, but I do quite like the idea of taking the middle 8hrs!.
As an aside, in times past it was normally common courtesy for the skipper to contact the other crew, I have almost always managed to achieve this, by either phone or email. Nett result - people rock up knowing what to expect, may not be to their liking, but at least they could plan ahead, and generally they were grateful for the heads up. It appears this is becoming less common place. Perhaps subtle suggestions could be once again directed to those who never/no longer do this, as ultimately, we all benefit.
I can appreciate that with roster changes etc, who actually rocks up may not be who you actually called/emailed, and conversely one sometimes comes across an individual who on principle doesnt check his emails until he next comes to work, but hey thats fine, I've got no problem with that, but he then just gets to take the rest thats given, rather than what he expected.
Any whining is normally met with my explanation of what I had to put up with on early Classic ULH with 3 pilots, where often @TOC it was 5hrs in one seat, a whole hour off, 5hrs in the other seat, (while the other 2 had 6hrs each with their teddy), and the last 45mins to yourself often sleeping through the landing still in the bunk.
So to quote Choppers advice, some people just need to 'harden the f**k up', especially as it's likely we will have more important things to be concerned about in the very near future if we are to remain as a united group.
Brgds
Perhaps AlphaFloors silk pj dude was just erring a little to far away from the big picture, but I do quite like the idea of taking the middle 8hrs!.
As an aside, in times past it was normally common courtesy for the skipper to contact the other crew, I have almost always managed to achieve this, by either phone or email. Nett result - people rock up knowing what to expect, may not be to their liking, but at least they could plan ahead, and generally they were grateful for the heads up. It appears this is becoming less common place. Perhaps subtle suggestions could be once again directed to those who never/no longer do this, as ultimately, we all benefit.
I can appreciate that with roster changes etc, who actually rocks up may not be who you actually called/emailed, and conversely one sometimes comes across an individual who on principle doesnt check his emails until he next comes to work, but hey thats fine, I've got no problem with that, but he then just gets to take the rest thats given, rather than what he expected.
Any whining is normally met with my explanation of what I had to put up with on early Classic ULH with 3 pilots, where often @TOC it was 5hrs in one seat, a whole hour off, 5hrs in the other seat, (while the other 2 had 6hrs each with their teddy), and the last 45mins to yourself often sleeping through the landing still in the bunk.
So to quote Choppers advice, some people just need to 'harden the f**k up', especially as it's likely we will have more important things to be concerned about in the very near future if we are to remain as a united group.
Brgds
just the two guys in the seat being rested for takeoff and landing (which is how many of our crew interpret in-flight rest requirements).
The first airline in which I flew heavy crew would as standard have operating crew fly (roughly) first six hours, heavy crew next six and operating crew back in half an hour before ToD.
How it's done on the day is up to the operating captain - you'll all get there one day