Say No To Concessions
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Say No To Concessions
After all the things they have done to our contracts in the past few years and now they may ask for concessions, No FLIPPIN' way!!! If we accept this we have ourselves to blame.
Fix the seniority list first and then all the different payscales and bases etc...
Man these people are unbelievable. The audacity is outrageous!
Fix the seniority list first and then all the different payscales and bases etc...
Man these people are unbelievable. The audacity is outrageous!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I Agree,
We should firstly make sure that no manager got a bonus, as 90% of all the losses were from fines and fuel hedging.
then:
1. get a currency protection clause in our salary like EK has...the dollar will go big time south in the coming years.
2. Negotiate a salary increase for the years to come to be implemented when we do our first profit...inflation is going to go way north in years to come.
3. Sort out the BBP for SO.
4. Stop the DFO on the bases ahead of our current crews.
5. What ever we give must be paid back when we make a profit.
Then we might consider giving something back
We should firstly make sure that no manager got a bonus, as 90% of all the losses were from fines and fuel hedging.
then:
1. get a currency protection clause in our salary like EK has...the dollar will go big time south in the coming years.
2. Negotiate a salary increase for the years to come to be implemented when we do our first profit...inflation is going to go way north in years to come.
3. Sort out the BBP for SO.
4. Stop the DFO on the bases ahead of our current crews.
5. What ever we give must be paid back when we make a profit.
Then we might consider giving something back
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I completely agree. I honestly am not sure if the job will be worth it if any long term concessions are made. Actually I know it wont. We need to see a HUGE show of faith to right the ship. We need contractually guaranteed improvements in CoS for us to help out at all. Like the AOA has been saying, further reducing our CoS is "just throwing pennies after dollars." I am not going to be part of hurting my career or the profession to cover up (or not come close) for the mistakes of management.
We need to be looking forward more than ever. I, for one, believe that when the economic situation turns around, we have the best chance in 30 years to take back some of what the profession has lost. I'm not saying all at once or massive changes. I am saying that we deserve better. I don't want to pass on this profession to the next generation in the condition it has been passed to me. Poor management techniques will be more visible that they have ever been. We have a huge impact on the profitability and safety of an airline. If pennies are thrown our way, we can make dollars. In fact, we can continue too because I think we are pulling our weight.
Problems of the past need to stay there. The problems we have caused ourselves, as pilots, is preventable. As a group at Cx, we seem to have fairly low self esteem when it comes to dealing with these issues. But why? We are a very different group of people than there was 8 years ago. Almost half of us haven't been here that long. But we have been other places and we can bring our collective services into a better place. If we stick together and remain reasonable, I believe we can help ourselves and the company in both the short and long term.
We need to be looking forward more than ever. I, for one, believe that when the economic situation turns around, we have the best chance in 30 years to take back some of what the profession has lost. I'm not saying all at once or massive changes. I am saying that we deserve better. I don't want to pass on this profession to the next generation in the condition it has been passed to me. Poor management techniques will be more visible that they have ever been. We have a huge impact on the profitability and safety of an airline. If pennies are thrown our way, we can make dollars. In fact, we can continue too because I think we are pulling our weight.
Problems of the past need to stay there. The problems we have caused ourselves, as pilots, is preventable. As a group at Cx, we seem to have fairly low self esteem when it comes to dealing with these issues. But why? We are a very different group of people than there was 8 years ago. Almost half of us haven't been here that long. But we have been other places and we can bring our collective services into a better place. If we stick together and remain reasonable, I believe we can help ourselves and the company in both the short and long term.
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just wondering what the AOA will do when management comes and asks for concessions? Just bend over, like the previous GC?
Accept a shafting for everybody to save the careers of ex Oasis DECs and the likes?
Or see it as a chance to get past mistakes sorted out and get them off the seniority list once and for all?
Accept a shafting for everybody to save the careers of ex Oasis DECs and the likes?
Or see it as a chance to get past mistakes sorted out and get them off the seniority list once and for all?
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...what a joke! Let me get this straight: for the past 10 years, I have been denied proper pay increases and profit share. Now, the first supposed downturn hits the airline and they want me to give THEM something...?? Give me a break. If they can't pay me properly when they were raking in record profits, they can forget me paying THEM the first time the skys darken. These people are shameless.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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This should be seen as an opportunity. I urge all of you who have not joined the AOA to do so now.
We NEED a united front to go negotiate this. The AOA is agressive for the first time in a long time. Give the new leadership the benefit of the doubt.
The only way we should agree to any concession and LWOP etc is if it comes with a contract that unites all, guarantees future payrises, sorts out out age 65 and bypass etc etc .
I assume most of us are pi$$ed off enough to maybe for once try and put up a united front?
We NEED a united front to go negotiate this. The AOA is agressive for the first time in a long time. Give the new leadership the benefit of the doubt.
The only way we should agree to any concession and LWOP etc is if it comes with a contract that unites all, guarantees future payrises, sorts out out age 65 and bypass etc etc .
I assume most of us are pi$$ed off enough to maybe for once try and put up a united front?
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I agree with this post........show me where to sign my vote.
However, I have this irritating feeling that all this is going no further than pprune. I'm not one to spend my time writing to SCMP (maybe I should), but providing the public information about all this surely would be in our favour. Everyone is p!ssed of with the way CEO's and the likes have behaved and been given massive payouts the world over.
If we are going to be united, shouldnt we involve the public as well? Let them know whats going on and how we feel, and it'll send a message to (mis)managment that we mean business and tired of all the bullsh!t.
However, I have this irritating feeling that all this is going no further than pprune. I'm not one to spend my time writing to SCMP (maybe I should), but providing the public information about all this surely would be in our favour. Everyone is p!ssed of with the way CEO's and the likes have behaved and been given massive payouts the world over.
If we are going to be united, shouldnt we involve the public as well? Let them know whats going on and how we feel, and it'll send a message to (mis)managment that we mean business and tired of all the bullsh!t.
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Naturally, the public will sympathize with a bunch of spoiled, overpaid and underworked pilots complaining in the SCMP that their evil bosses and shareholders are keeping their bonuses and dividents while we're being forced to postpone the pool renovations on the second house in Thailand. There will be a public outcry, rest assured.
Or maybe not.
Or maybe not.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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What's the point of just saying "No" to concessions ?
There is no point going to a meeting with CX management with a shopping list of demands, agreement will take forever and all the time Titanic will be sinking beneath our feet.
Just make one big, fair, demand that all management staff repay their 2008 bonuses.
The responsibility for the hedging losses rests squarely with Tyler and a few directors; they have failed and may have killed the airline. We have all read the commnets in the papers about AIG etc, "No reward for failure" !
Rod Eddington and the BA team gave up their bonuses; are CX managers man enough to do the same ?
The bonuses are obscene 140% of basic salary.
If Tyler & Co are not man enough to do the right thing ,why should we (or any other staff) ?
There is no point going to a meeting with CX management with a shopping list of demands, agreement will take forever and all the time Titanic will be sinking beneath our feet.
Just make one big, fair, demand that all management staff repay their 2008 bonuses.
The responsibility for the hedging losses rests squarely with Tyler and a few directors; they have failed and may have killed the airline. We have all read the commnets in the papers about AIG etc, "No reward for failure" !
Rod Eddington and the BA team gave up their bonuses; are CX managers man enough to do the same ?
The bonuses are obscene 140% of basic salary.
If Tyler & Co are not man enough to do the right thing ,why should we (or any other staff) ?
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The alternative
The ship is heading for the Iceberg! We will have to make choices and they will be bad or worse. The company has the power to get the governement behind them! They have already had this at their disposal. Why do you think things have gotten so bad to this point? The argument that people of Hong Kong don't care about overpaid pilot's (perception) is right on. In the scheme of things we are still today paid OK and work less hard than most of Hong Kong. Think about all those worker bees everyday on the MTR, buses etc..Go check out HKG during rush hour, hell stand in front of CX city at 830am, it is a sight to see.
So we must ask ourselves where does that leave us. I think the AOA and the company will work things out but we will pay some price. We already have. IF WE ARE NOT WILLING TO STRIKE AND SHUT THIS MO FO DOWN THEN FORGET IT. So ask yourself and your colleagues, IS NOW THE TIME? We must be lead by our GC at the AOA. We now have a decent GC so I have faith.
Now also, I think the company is in more trouble than not. Over-expansion and bad fleet choices and poor management decisions have brought us here. I will say this,the airline will down size and will stay that way for a few years. Route and fleet is where they need to concentrate.
Unfortunately,the alternatives are few. So do you fly for CX on less terms and conditions (as we have been for some time) do you go drive a truck or DO YOU SHUT THIS PLACE DOWN? The AOA won't let a strike happen. We will have to vote which we will and a deal will eventually be reached. Things are NEVER EVER going to be the same here so forget it.
So we must ask ourselves where does that leave us. I think the AOA and the company will work things out but we will pay some price. We already have. IF WE ARE NOT WILLING TO STRIKE AND SHUT THIS MO FO DOWN THEN FORGET IT. So ask yourself and your colleagues, IS NOW THE TIME? We must be lead by our GC at the AOA. We now have a decent GC so I have faith.
Now also, I think the company is in more trouble than not. Over-expansion and bad fleet choices and poor management decisions have brought us here. I will say this,the airline will down size and will stay that way for a few years. Route and fleet is where they need to concentrate.
Unfortunately,the alternatives are few. So do you fly for CX on less terms and conditions (as we have been for some time) do you go drive a truck or DO YOU SHUT THIS PLACE DOWN? The AOA won't let a strike happen. We will have to vote which we will and a deal will eventually be reached. Things are NEVER EVER going to be the same here so forget it.
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As in all things, people are eventually faced with a difficult choice. If you make the correct decision, the outcome usually is hugely beneficial for the rest of your life. If you make the wrong one, the consequences usually take years to unwind. We are all about to be faced with the most profound decision of our careers. The deciding factor in that decision will be simply this: will we have the most cohesive unity we have ever had and face down the threat, or, will we roll over and never again have a career worthy of the name. If we stand together, there is NOTHING that CX can do to move us. If they think they can fire one...then they must know that every other will stop work immediately until that one is back at work. Every one of us must think this through, confer with your colleagues and hold each other to account. This is graver than the situation in 99....and those of you who were here know what I mean. Now is the time for a bit of inward reflection to ascertain what amount of character and fortitude you have.
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ATY, nice one.
then I would assume, that you will display great moral character and stand in unity for every pilot at CX, which includes the extendees, as well as those who joined on Cos 08 & the ex KA & ex Oasis pilots, who have been part of CX for almost a year now.
I knew there was hope
then I would assume, that you will display great moral character and stand in unity for every pilot at CX, which includes the extendees, as well as those who joined on Cos 08 & the ex KA & ex Oasis pilots, who have been part of CX for almost a year now.
I knew there was hope
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But analysts believe that this is the showdown that Willie Walsh, the chief executive, has been spoiling for and that BA wants to use the economic crisis as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to restructure its employee contracts.
