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BOP

Old 12th Jan 2009, 10:37
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BOP

Did I hear/mishear that an amended/revised Biz Op Plan was imminent?

If so any early indicators of what may be involved?

Nullaman is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2009, 17:06
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New BOP due to hit the streets before the end of the month.

From what I understand the most significant effects are on the 744. Basically a pitch of 3 months unpaid leave across the fleet, with 4 more aircraft parked before 1st June.

On the 77 fleet, 3x 772's will go in April-June to be parked at Victorville. This is partially balanced out by the arrival of the 3 new 773-ER's arriving from this weekend to start picking up the LAX services. LAX ex-744 crew to be converted over the summer much as expected (except for their unpaid leave).

My source was not paying attention to the 'Bus plan', except to deduce that the 744 are going to be majorly fcked.
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Old 12th Jan 2009, 23:26
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Unpaid leave cannot be forced, can it,as its then furlough or an enforced redundancy?

Voluntary unpaid leave is fine, im all for it as long as it aint me!

There are still several guys to get their DECs from the second rate sister airline, so dont go phasing out the 744 just yet, they might start squeeling, again.

I heard the O$am& Bad Landing passed, fu(kin unbelievable .And is he in the AOA yet, haha dream on. Might need it though!

Now off I go for the sparrows [email protected] on this loverly day.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 00:19
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Marvellous post Trevfly, up to your usual standards of lucidity and logic. Gee your other post was well received? Maybe a little more thought before posting might be the idea next time. Perhaps a little unpaid convalesence for you might in fact be a good idea eh?

Anyhow, back to the real world.

How is it that the HK Cargo Apron is full (yesterday I counted 5 of them here at once) of Fed Ex freighters still productively plying regional and global skies yet we, for whom HK is home base, are sending CX/KA freighters off to the desert? Something isn't right.

From todays Flight Global: Fedex has today exercised options for 15 Boeing 777Fs and has added options for another 15 aircraft.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 09:37
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Unpaid Leave

Unpaid leave probably cannot be forced on employees. But what a company could do is ask employees to take unpaid leave with an undertaking to repay the lost salary at a future date - for example when the next profit is declared (which I'm sure for a company like CPA won't be too far in th future) - ahead of shareholders' dividend. So effectively it would actually not be unpaid leave but it would be like a loan by the employees to help the company in a difficult time - a win win for both parties.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 10:53
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So effectively it would actually not be unpaid leave but it would be like a loan by the employees to help the company in a difficult time - a win win for both parties.
CX certainly doesn't need a 'loan' from its employees.

CX has excess pilots and is trying to reduce manhour costs. The difference to the bottom line is negligible but like any good business they must try and cut unnecessary costs - including paying too many people for too little work.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 11:42
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I would have thought that CX would revisit the voluntary unpaid leave option again to see if there were any more potential takers before announcing mandatory unpaid leave.

I fully appreciate that all airlines are facing difficult times ahead but many, although not all, of the legacy carriers are facing reduced profits from the record highs of recent years, not losses.

There are several issues that will be raised if CX try to mandate unpaid leave. Firstly is the issue of leave not allocated to officers for the 2009 year. Secondly is that, as they continue to state, the majority of the loss are from unrealised hedging losses, NOT actual cash losses. Finally, and probably the greatest issue, is that the vast majority of the loss recorded for the last financial year will be that of fuel hedging losses and cargo fines. Both of these are items are far removed from the control of the majority of CX staff bar the few who were responsible for the decisions that led to these losses in the first place.

Staff will find it hard to accept unpaid leave and bail out the company without serious answers and public accountability by management for their stuff ups.

Of course it is their train set and they will do as they please.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 13:17
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a le rhone

CX Cargo has a fleet of aircraft and carries cargo.

Fedex has a fleet of aircraft and a fleet of a million vans worldwide and carries small package freight, basically a mail delivery network.

Different beasts.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 13:55
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This is partially balanced out by the arrival of the 3 new 773-ER's arriving from this weekend to start picking up the LAX services.
If you have a look at the online schedules for LAX, the 77W drops down to 3x a week to LAX only in April, compared to 5x a week now.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 17:45
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Lets try and keep all of this in perspective. Until either, a) senior managment take the first significant pay cut, both salary AND bonus, or b) aircraft orders are cancelled, I will not even listen to the talk of 'crisis' or any other inflamed rhetoric. CX has consistently used the ups and downs of the economy to extract maximum advantage against their own staff. When TT takes a meaningful and verifiable cut to his income, then perhaps he will have my attention. If they are not cancelling aircraft orders, particularly freighters, then what does that tell you...?
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 23:54
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ATY
100% agree
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Old 14th Jan 2009, 02:31
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The DFO who cried wolf

But guys, in the DFO update last Friday he stated:

This is not ‘expectation management’ or ‘scaremongering.’
Apparently he's not fooling this time, there actually is a wolf.
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 01:11
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Can someone confirm for me when those KA guys recently hired to CX freighters will be elegible to transfer to the PAX fleet - Surely they must be bottom of seniority to do so????
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 02:41
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I imagine they will be in the same boat as DEFO on freighter - ie can transfer to pax fleet once all SO's senior to them have upgraded???
In case of captains - once all FO's senior to them have command??
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 06:15
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thanks yoke...
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 07:03
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Last on, first off. As per the contract. Can't say I'll miss the captains with 1700 numbers to go to be in the running for a pax command. And no, I won't be bullied into taking unpaid leave, I'm working my arse off. 70 hours a month instead off the steady 84 I've done since I got here would be a pleasant change. And it won't send them broke either.
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 07:41
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Jack57

They're already on the pax fleet. COS 08 has a unified pay scale which means every F/O joining after 1 Jan 2008 flies both fleets.
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 08:00
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Last In, First out yes, but read the COS99. That is off the "redundancy" list and not the seniority list. Which, I am guessing, means the company compiles a list based on where they do and do not need pilots, with the least needed at the bottom (ie. all freighter only FOs). So you could be here 3 years on the -400 and get the boot while a newbie on the 777 gets to keep his job in YYZ and continue to feed his family.

This is my interpretation, if anybody knows for sure, please correct me if I am wrong.

Mayday (a CoS99 freighter only FO hired in 2006)
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 08:31
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Shipped Free

Why send freight by air when you can send it on a boat for free? Only if speed is absolutely essential.
Shipping rates hit zero as trade sinks - Telegraph
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 08:37
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Mayday - redundancy is definitely not "needs-based", but simply done on DOJ. This is the whole principle of last in first out.
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