What is the AOA's role?
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What is the AOA's role?
In recent times it seems that very little has come out from the AOA as to what is happening. I do know that career altering decisions are being discussed such as the T+C for basings, 'compromising' on bypass pay, RA65 pay etc.
The AOA has had some success in this. CX in its usual style tried to railroad a UK deal through, got caught out by the AOA so CX in retaliation reneged on its promise to put ALL C+Ters on original(A mostly) scales as of a month ago...and then tried to blame its about face on the AOA. Good one Phil/Nick!
Since around 2002, it appears to be me that the AOA has moved from a proactive 'seeking improvements with confrontation' role to a more defensive role. It appears that time is spent defending changes to our contract or helping to minimise the negative outcome of new contracts, such as was done with UFO scale negotiations.
So right now we have somewhere between 30-50+ Direct Entry Captains from KA freighters and Oasis and a similar number of Direct Entry FOs from the same 2 organisations. Maybe I missed the newsletter but these events appear to have gone unreported by the AOA. Whilst I am at best only a bush lawyer, CX is skirting with the words of and most definitely the intent of our contract - just like the do with all the 'normallys' in our RP agreements.
I do know that the AOA is considering paycuts for A scales as part of an RA65 deal! The 'onerous' bypass pay issue would account for, very roughly, 5% or less of our entire salary bill over the next 10 years. If you take into account our other costs of employment, such as housing, education etc, then the final percentage would be lower still at 2-3%. So I must admit to seeing 'compromising' on bypass pay as a deal breaker, but thats just my opinion.
What's my point?
Well, what role do we want the AOA to serve in future? Is it there just to dot the i's, cross the t's and ensure CX mostly (or 'normally' in roster agreement speak) stick to our contract? Kind of like our personal accountant/lawyer who we ring occasionally if we need clarification on our contract?
Or do we want to go back to the (good ole?) days of confrontation over indignation? Do we start standing up for ourselves - contract compliance as a starter - over the imbecilic way CX has back doored DECs, insulted B scalers with a 3% payrise, insulted A scalers by reneging on the CX promise of A scales for >55 by Apr 08?
I would dearly love to know the results of the survey, in general terms, as that would help me to know the future direction of the AOA. Many of my colleagues think we should still take CX on - or as someone posted, finally take on the bully. Some colleagues think any confrontation is futile and they are simply here doing their time.
Makes it hard for guys/gals deciding to join the GC when you don't know if you are entering into a military action or a 'keep the peace' role.
So I invite members and non members alike to discuss what is the way forward.
The AOA has had some success in this. CX in its usual style tried to railroad a UK deal through, got caught out by the AOA so CX in retaliation reneged on its promise to put ALL C+Ters on original(A mostly) scales as of a month ago...and then tried to blame its about face on the AOA. Good one Phil/Nick!
Since around 2002, it appears to be me that the AOA has moved from a proactive 'seeking improvements with confrontation' role to a more defensive role. It appears that time is spent defending changes to our contract or helping to minimise the negative outcome of new contracts, such as was done with UFO scale negotiations.
So right now we have somewhere between 30-50+ Direct Entry Captains from KA freighters and Oasis and a similar number of Direct Entry FOs from the same 2 organisations. Maybe I missed the newsletter but these events appear to have gone unreported by the AOA. Whilst I am at best only a bush lawyer, CX is skirting with the words of and most definitely the intent of our contract - just like the do with all the 'normallys' in our RP agreements.
I do know that the AOA is considering paycuts for A scales as part of an RA65 deal! The 'onerous' bypass pay issue would account for, very roughly, 5% or less of our entire salary bill over the next 10 years. If you take into account our other costs of employment, such as housing, education etc, then the final percentage would be lower still at 2-3%. So I must admit to seeing 'compromising' on bypass pay as a deal breaker, but thats just my opinion.
What's my point?
Well, what role do we want the AOA to serve in future? Is it there just to dot the i's, cross the t's and ensure CX mostly (or 'normally' in roster agreement speak) stick to our contract? Kind of like our personal accountant/lawyer who we ring occasionally if we need clarification on our contract?
Or do we want to go back to the (good ole?) days of confrontation over indignation? Do we start standing up for ourselves - contract compliance as a starter - over the imbecilic way CX has back doored DECs, insulted B scalers with a 3% payrise, insulted A scalers by reneging on the CX promise of A scales for >55 by Apr 08?
I would dearly love to know the results of the survey, in general terms, as that would help me to know the future direction of the AOA. Many of my colleagues think we should still take CX on - or as someone posted, finally take on the bully. Some colleagues think any confrontation is futile and they are simply here doing their time.
Makes it hard for guys/gals deciding to join the GC when you don't know if you are entering into a military action or a 'keep the peace' role.
So I invite members and non members alike to discuss what is the way forward.
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Very good post NC
I'm sure it will create some good discussion amonst the pilot community
My 2 cents - The CO is getting away with too much at the moment in times where we need to stabilise current COS and push forward with the "lack of current progress" on pay etc.
65, Direct entry etc affects us all...
I can only hope that more pilot's see the importance of these issues, put the past behind them and join to vote...
I'm sure it will create some good discussion amonst the pilot community
My 2 cents - The CO is getting away with too much at the moment in times where we need to stabilise current COS and push forward with the "lack of current progress" on pay etc.
65, Direct entry etc affects us all...
I can only hope that more pilot's see the importance of these issues, put the past behind them and join to vote...
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Step 1 Would be making sure that the 2 Daves and Steve get sh#t canned and not allowed withing 100m of any AOA office.
Step 2 Stand up for our rights! No means No it does not mean revote.
Step 3 Contract compilance in every sense of the word, not just when it suits us, far too many of us bending over backwards to help out on G days and responding in less than 2.3 hours to reserve call outs.
Step 4 And this earks me but, Revert to Nigel and show the company the finger.
We need Balls - While KJP pockets a 300K per month salary to out smart us and at the moment the likes of NR ST 2D's keep us castrated - we need thinkers who are better than they at chess.......... NC for president - PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Step 2 Stand up for our rights! No means No it does not mean revote.
Step 3 Contract compilance in every sense of the word, not just when it suits us, far too many of us bending over backwards to help out on G days and responding in less than 2.3 hours to reserve call outs.
Step 4 And this earks me but, Revert to Nigel and show the company the finger.
We need Balls - While KJP pockets a 300K per month salary to out smart us and at the moment the likes of NR ST 2D's keep us castrated - we need thinkers who are better than they at chess.......... NC for president - PLEASE!!!!!!!!
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Having known NC personally for quite a while, i have to say that he would make a great pres..not only does he understand spreadsheets better than anyone i know, he also has a sense of humour, which i think one needs in this day and age. NC also has seen all the crap that has gone on in the AOA under the current bunch of ***********(use your imagination for the words!!).
Are we allowed to vote for someone who hasnt puut there hand up for becoming pres? maybe i will pretend to be NC, and we can then all vote for him, who is with me?
NC, think about it and hope that you put your hand up mate, becoz we need someone to "break there balls Hans!!"""
Are we allowed to vote for someone who hasnt puut there hand up for becoming pres? maybe i will pretend to be NC, and we can then all vote for him, who is with me?
NC, think about it and hope that you put your hand up mate, becoz we need someone to "break there balls Hans!!"""
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A few facts about the new Delta/Northwest deal:
....'Delta’s pilots seem likely to ratify a deal that hands them a 17% pay rise over four years, better pensions, 3.5% of the equity in the new company'...
....'Delta’s pilots seem likely to ratify a deal that hands them a 17% pay rise over four years, better pensions, 3.5% of the equity in the new company'...
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please clarify...
....is this the same NC that recommended MSS only to walk away and quit after...? ,has an untrustworthy aspect about him in which I'm not going to name here but he knows what I mean ...if it is then how can he be trusted to be the head of our AOA ? the answer is HE AINT .
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Amen!!!! NC is useful for thoughts here but in the AOA he is useless, he has a few toooooo many drinks toooooo often and talks out of his head, has been the case in the past and always will be in the future. Plus there is the other stuff??????
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SAD,
thanks for confirming I don't speak out of my ass! ;-)
Guys and Gals,
I find it disappointing that a question on Mac computers garners over 20 replies in a day or so whereas a question on the future direction/role of our union garners half the comments in over a week.
Is this an indicator of the level of apathy and despair amongst the aircrew?
thanks for confirming I don't speak out of my ass! ;-)
Guys and Gals,
I find it disappointing that a question on Mac computers garners over 20 replies in a day or so whereas a question on the future direction/role of our union garners half the comments in over a week.
Is this an indicator of the level of apathy and despair amongst the aircrew?
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NC,
So you have noticed that there is apathy and despair amongst those who post here at PPrune?
That people are too busy to respond to your well argued request that we highlight issues important to the CX aircrew body and ask what is the way forward, but instead can flock to a minor thread about helping some Mac wannabe too lazy to do a Google search...doesn't sound like there is much hope for a united aircrew body? Or at least a body of people willing to make suggestions rather than just armchair criticising.
If I were you, I'd stay well clear of those requests to stand for the AOA prez until you find a body of people worth leading.
So you have noticed that there is apathy and despair amongst those who post here at PPrune?
That people are too busy to respond to your well argued request that we highlight issues important to the CX aircrew body and ask what is the way forward, but instead can flock to a minor thread about helping some Mac wannabe too lazy to do a Google search...doesn't sound like there is much hope for a united aircrew body? Or at least a body of people willing to make suggestions rather than just armchair criticising.
If I were you, I'd stay well clear of those requests to stand for the AOA prez until you find a body of people worth leading.
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NC, it is impossible to have a sensible discussion here because we have to deal with the likes of the previous twp pr*cks who seem only to worry about how amusing their usernames are!
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Before we ask what the AOA can do for us, how 'bout trying to get the pilot group to unify as a WHOLE ! Until that happens all the negotiations, bitching sessions we have on these forums and at work amount to jack ****e.
It's all well and and good to say we need to grow balls, no means NO and not a revote (which I agree 100% to all these previous postings) however, unless we unify NOTHING shall be achieved.
Simple things like Captains taking time to read their Groupwise and acknowledging jumpseats, not leaving people wondering on the day of departure what the hell is going on. When we go into the sim or on a line check, we act at a CREW and get involved as a TEAM in achieving our goal, not sitting back and watching the other guy about to escalate a problem and keep our mouths shut.
Asking if there are any 'subloaders' at the counter and doing whatever we can to help them get on. These are a few things that come to mind.
You get catch more flies with honey than with vinegar
It's all well and and good to say we need to grow balls, no means NO and not a revote (which I agree 100% to all these previous postings) however, unless we unify NOTHING shall be achieved.
Simple things like Captains taking time to read their Groupwise and acknowledging jumpseats, not leaving people wondering on the day of departure what the hell is going on. When we go into the sim or on a line check, we act at a CREW and get involved as a TEAM in achieving our goal, not sitting back and watching the other guy about to escalate a problem and keep our mouths shut.
Asking if there are any 'subloaders' at the counter and doing whatever we can to help them get on. These are a few things that come to mind.
You get catch more flies with honey than with vinegar
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I think the mis direction this thread is taking gives one a very good clue as to how people regard the "Union". Basically it has become a boring sideshow, devoid of any real clout.
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The role of the AOA? It doesn't have one. The AOA has not been a 'union' since it abandoned the 49ers. Union status is hard won but easily lost. A bit like 5-4-3. Blame MG, ST and their supporters.
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Did anyone else notice NR's blurb this week. At the end, he mentions that someone who is joining us again has just gotten his freighter command. Were these vacancies advertised, and if so, were there no applicants? If that is the case, then where is the union on this?
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