implication of 3 man ULH?
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Joined: Nov 2007
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From: WestCoast
implication of 3 man ULH?
with Oasis gone, i think it's going to be inevitable that 3man ULH gets introduced sooner rather than later.
What do you guys anticipate the implication to be for 3man ULH?
i'm guessing either the FO or the SO will take the roughest hit, as I don't think we can compromise the Captain too much.
How do you guys feel about roster changes, and upgrade changes?
i think we'll see a lot of zombies walking around
What do you guys anticipate the implication to be for 3man ULH?
i'm guessing either the FO or the SO will take the roughest hit, as I don't think we can compromise the Captain too much.
How do you guys feel about roster changes, and upgrade changes?
i think we'll see a lot of zombies walking around
Joined: May 2006
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From: mars
Air NZ fly up to LHR with a 3 man crew. But the rest is split evenly and they have more days off in LHR than what CX currently do... There shouldnt be any reason why rest is not to be split evenly.... As long as there is adequate time to rest at destination, it shouldnt be such a problem, only that we will be spending longer away from home. Or will it be 3 man ULR, split duty...
So we will have to watch this space and see what happens, you are correct about the zombies, only this time they will be flying...
Myself, I'm for 4 man crew everywhere
So we will have to watch this space and see what happens, you are correct about the zombies, only this time they will be flying...Myself, I'm for 4 man crew everywhere
Joined: May 2002
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From: Here and There
Unless it is preceded by a hefty payrise I think it will just encourage those on the edge of leaving to actually go. Even with more cash I think it will convince a large number of people to go and do something else. Living like a zombie for the next 20 years - not worth it!
W2
W2
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Hong Kong
SO to be screwed over
From the Rostering guys on the AOA, their view is that on each 3 man trip to Europe the SO will be burnt out each way (8 hours in the seat).
There is no way that the rest will be evenly divided (nor should it be!) the crew members doing the landing will get the rest. The SO is there to provide that rest.
CX want 3 man as it saves them $, but they do not want to give more rest days before, during and after a 3 man pattern - defeats the purpose of reduced crewing and therefore saving $.
Air NZ etc have far (about twice as long) longer patterns than the current CX 4 man patterns.
Sticking point so far has been HKG CAD wanting more rest days for 3 man patterns. And Oasis management saying it is unsafe. Also, CX Safety Department see fatigue from current rosters as a serious threat to safety. 3 man patterns will only make matters worse.
With Direct Entry FOs taking base slots, retirement age going up and 3 man crews who the hell would want to join CX and live in the filth of HKG????
There is no way that the rest will be evenly divided (nor should it be!) the crew members doing the landing will get the rest. The SO is there to provide that rest.
CX want 3 man as it saves them $, but they do not want to give more rest days before, during and after a 3 man pattern - defeats the purpose of reduced crewing and therefore saving $.
Air NZ etc have far (about twice as long) longer patterns than the current CX 4 man patterns.
Sticking point so far has been HKG CAD wanting more rest days for 3 man patterns. And Oasis management saying it is unsafe. Also, CX Safety Department see fatigue from current rosters as a serious threat to safety. 3 man patterns will only make matters worse.
With Direct Entry FOs taking base slots, retirement age going up and 3 man crews who the hell would want to join CX and live in the filth of HKG????
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Hong Kong
Our current RPs expire on 31/12/08 unless BOTH sides agree to renew them or replace them. At that point our rostering rules become AFTLS. As some have pointed out, CAD have already approved 3man up to 14hrs but have not yet agreed to the rest requirements (before, during and after the pattern) that CX want.
Once some compromise rest requirements are reached CX will have a surplus of about 100 FOs to pursue those lost opportunities. Or maybe the surplus of 100 will neatly ameliorate the FO/SO losses we have been suffering in 2008???
Once some compromise rest requirements are reached CX will have a surplus of about 100 FOs to pursue those lost opportunities. Or maybe the surplus of 100 will neatly ameliorate the FO/SO losses we have been suffering in 2008???
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: with the ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
The original CX 747 'Classic' Ultra Long Haul operation was effectively 3-man for the pilots (some of us may remember being 'burnt out' as Relief, not to mention the Silk Pyjama Brigade).
We were also managed reasonably well and therefore worked the odd G-day.
But salaries were the old A-scale, layovers were longer and we had more leave. Nothing less than this for 3-man ULH is acceptable.
We were also managed reasonably well and therefore worked the odd G-day.
But salaries were the old A-scale, layovers were longer and we had more leave. Nothing less than this for 3-man ULH is acceptable.
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Daimantina
WHEN 3 man ULH gets introduced then we will be away for 17 days a month just like AIR NZ.....funny thing is the union fought to get extra days in HK and LHR on the AKL-HKG-LHR route to make up for 3 man ULH at AIR NZ...cant see us fighting for more days away from home here at cx espicially as the rosters seem to be getting worse and worse every month.
How about a commuters roster where we work 2 weeks on/2 weeks off...im sure it would suit alot of guys.
How about a commuters roster where we work 2 weeks on/2 weeks off...im sure it would suit alot of guys.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Singaporelah not any more
ULH
Hi Guys/Gals, HK to LHR is not ULH, just a norm longhaul. There's a whole new set of rules for ULH,and there's no way they will go to a 3man crew. The only true ULH is SIN to EWR and back and LAX to SIN on a bad day, these being about 18 to 19hrs.
The 4man crew works fine on these, lots of 4 and 5hr breaks and beds to sleep in. Best thing is only 2 trips/mth, so about 15days off
The 4man crew works fine on these, lots of 4 and 5hr breaks and beds to sleep in. Best thing is only 2 trips/mth, so about 15days off
Joined: May 2000
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From: Camp X-Ray
For your information BA our one world partner has been forced by the caa to desist in 3 man ULH!!
All ULH on the 400 are operated 2 Captains and 2 First Officers
All ULH on the 400 are operated 2 Captains and 2 First Officers
