HKAOA Survey
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HKAOA Survey
We just received the HKAOA survey and we will like to comment and give fair warning.
The Cathay Pacific Group will not tolerate any form of industrial action by the HKAOA or any individual.
We will terminate contracts of a few bad apples; don’t let that bad apple be YOU.
We will curtail our expansion to maintain our labor contracts (and my bonus) and if it takes terminating 10-20 pilot contracts so the rest of the pilot body fall neatly into line, we will do so.
Our estimate is that very few will have the stomach for any kind of industrial action, as most know we will not hesitate to terminate employment.
We have won the industrial war at Cathay Pacific and our present contract is still the best in Asia. If your contract is terminated where will you go, Middle East, India, Korea, Singapore? We have superior benefits, our pay package is the best and we have basing opportunities. How many of you will put that on the line?
Why put your career and family through this stress? So your command will be delayed another 5 years, your S/O upgrade will take longer or you may not receive a base as soon as you like. Are these reasons to have your contract terminated? Think about your family.
Think very carefully about your survey answers, your employment and your family’s well-being will depend on it.
To My Bonus.
The Management
The Cathay Pacific Group will not tolerate any form of industrial action by the HKAOA or any individual.
We will terminate contracts of a few bad apples; don’t let that bad apple be YOU.
We will curtail our expansion to maintain our labor contracts (and my bonus) and if it takes terminating 10-20 pilot contracts so the rest of the pilot body fall neatly into line, we will do so.
Our estimate is that very few will have the stomach for any kind of industrial action, as most know we will not hesitate to terminate employment.
We have won the industrial war at Cathay Pacific and our present contract is still the best in Asia. If your contract is terminated where will you go, Middle East, India, Korea, Singapore? We have superior benefits, our pay package is the best and we have basing opportunities. How many of you will put that on the line?
Why put your career and family through this stress? So your command will be delayed another 5 years, your S/O upgrade will take longer or you may not receive a base as soon as you like. Are these reasons to have your contract terminated? Think about your family.
Think very carefully about your survey answers, your employment and your family’s well-being will depend on it.
To My Bonus.
The Management
So much bluster Mr M.
I don't think the Cathay Pacific Group tolerates Senior Managers who, by their oversight, embarass the Swire Group either do they?
I don't think the Cathay Pacific Group tolerates Senior Managers who, by their oversight, embarass the Swire Group either do they?
Last edited by Arfur Dent; 11th Mar 2008 at 19:05.
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Say What?
Let's remember, the best defense is a good offense.
One just has to look at the recent move to onshore in the UK to see that CX Management is in way over their head. They couldn't even get the age 55 right. And the supposed move is next month. One can only imagine the advice they are getting. This move to onshore is solely due to the Crofts case that stated that the CX employees were indeed based in the UK.
Now do you really think that they would fire based members now, for no reason, given this fact and face the wrath of wrongful dismissal suits. I highly doubt it. Here in North America, where it can easily be proven that we are based, staff do indeed have the right to take action if an agreement cannot be reached. To fire someone for exercising that right would lead to a myriad of suits. Hence CX's strong stance to try and intimidate.
Let's remember of course, that they took a strong stance against the local staff unions in regard to the medical fees. Refresh my memory, who backed down?
The recent payment of one months profit share has nothing to due with CX benevolence, but everything to do with staff attrition. I was advised that 500 local cabin crew bailed early in the New Year. There are indeed many better options out there for them. Moreover, the recent pay hikes to the Unified Scale are a meagre attempt to prevent falling further behind.
In the grand scheme, the CX package has fallen way behind many other employers. Factor in the pollution, declining US dollar, an everchanging career track, and of course, intimidation and CX is no longer attractive.
Ladies and gents, they are on the ropes and they know it. One of the key elements that made CX such a success in the past was employee goodwill. That has now been lost and is difficult to again attain.
Just the threat of industrial action will bring down the house. Just ask the local staff.
One just has to look at the recent move to onshore in the UK to see that CX Management is in way over their head. They couldn't even get the age 55 right. And the supposed move is next month. One can only imagine the advice they are getting. This move to onshore is solely due to the Crofts case that stated that the CX employees were indeed based in the UK.
Now do you really think that they would fire based members now, for no reason, given this fact and face the wrath of wrongful dismissal suits. I highly doubt it. Here in North America, where it can easily be proven that we are based, staff do indeed have the right to take action if an agreement cannot be reached. To fire someone for exercising that right would lead to a myriad of suits. Hence CX's strong stance to try and intimidate.
Let's remember of course, that they took a strong stance against the local staff unions in regard to the medical fees. Refresh my memory, who backed down?
The recent payment of one months profit share has nothing to due with CX benevolence, but everything to do with staff attrition. I was advised that 500 local cabin crew bailed early in the New Year. There are indeed many better options out there for them. Moreover, the recent pay hikes to the Unified Scale are a meagre attempt to prevent falling further behind.
In the grand scheme, the CX package has fallen way behind many other employers. Factor in the pollution, declining US dollar, an everchanging career track, and of course, intimidation and CX is no longer attractive.
Ladies and gents, they are on the ropes and they know it. One of the key elements that made CX such a success in the past was employee goodwill. That has now been lost and is difficult to again attain.
Just the threat of industrial action will bring down the house. Just ask the local staff.
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Can’t say I don’t disagree, this lot can be very vindictive as they have shown in the past.
Instead of no particular reason, it may be lost confidence, not working in the interest of the company, etc.
Don’t think too many will vote for IA as most can’t agree on working G days. Good luck.
How many will vote for industrial and never have any intention of doing it? Been there.
Instead of no particular reason, it may be lost confidence, not working in the interest of the company, etc.
Don’t think too many will vote for IA as most can’t agree on working G days. Good luck.
How many will vote for industrial and never have any intention of doing it? Been there.
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Great reasons to stay, Mr management. I have now reconsidered - I will stay - I do not dare to leave because of the CX package - I just do not want to loose all the benefits - not to forget the enjoyment of being employed and respected by The Management and the benefit of knowing that I must be one of the best pilot in the whole holy world after having the Starchamber finding me suitable for upgrade. Even the polution in Hong Kong seems to be improving in HK these days - with the health risk almost gone here - its like paradise on earth. Is it not.
To The Managements bonus - may she soon feel the rope tighten around her neck.
To The Managements bonus - may she soon feel the rope tighten around her neck.
Last edited by Yeager; 12th Mar 2008 at 04:04. Reason: spelling for wankers
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the benefit of knowing that I must be one of the best pilot in the hole world after having the Starchamber finding me suitable for upgrade.
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14 days ?? 7 days?? 3 weeks??? 2 months??
I'm just counting the days/weeks until the holes are bigger than the plugging that is going on.
I think it is very close to this ship sinking and planes with no pilots are going to be staying at remote bays.
I predict 1 month at the most.
Meow!!!!!
I'm just counting the days/weeks until the holes are bigger than the plugging that is going on.
I think it is very close to this ship sinking and planes with no pilots are going to be staying at remote bays.
I predict 1 month at the most.
Meow!!!!!
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The following was emailed to all HKAOA members....
The HKAOA is currently conducting a survey of all Cathay Pacific aircrew, members and non-members alike, with the purpose of receiving views and input on a range of issues from as many people as possible. We believe this information will be extremely valuable to the General Committee (GC) of the Association in its continuing efforts to best serve the interests of CX aircrew.
We have contracted the professional services of the Wilson Centre for Public Research and Complete to host, manage and analyse this survey. The US based Wilson Center has extensive experience of polling pilot groups and has recently conducted surveys for both the British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA)and the Allied Pilots Association.
The survey asks direct questions on sensitive issues. Please answer the questions honestly and without regard to your union membership status - there are no right or wrong answers. We need your own views only and not what anyone thinks the GC might be wanting or needing to hear.
To guarantee the highest possible degree of confidentiality, the HKAOA will not have access to individual's survey inputs To further protect your input, you will be asked to choose your own password after your initial login.
The survey will remain open until 5 April.
Please encourage as many of your colleagues as possible to participate.
Please advise any non members that you know that they can receive their login information by telephoning the HKAOA office on 27360823 or email to [email protected].
A high level of response from the aircrew group will maximize the value of the survey.
The leadership of the Association sincerely values your input. Thank you for sharing your views on these important issues.
Steve Turner
President
HKAOA
10 March 2008
The HKAOA is currently conducting a survey of all Cathay Pacific aircrew, members and non-members alike, with the purpose of receiving views and input on a range of issues from as many people as possible. We believe this information will be extremely valuable to the General Committee (GC) of the Association in its continuing efforts to best serve the interests of CX aircrew.
We have contracted the professional services of the Wilson Centre for Public Research and Complete to host, manage and analyse this survey. The US based Wilson Center has extensive experience of polling pilot groups and has recently conducted surveys for both the British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA)and the Allied Pilots Association.
The survey asks direct questions on sensitive issues. Please answer the questions honestly and without regard to your union membership status - there are no right or wrong answers. We need your own views only and not what anyone thinks the GC might be wanting or needing to hear.
To guarantee the highest possible degree of confidentiality, the HKAOA will not have access to individual's survey inputs To further protect your input, you will be asked to choose your own password after your initial login.
The survey will remain open until 5 April.
Please encourage as many of your colleagues as possible to participate.
Please advise any non members that you know that they can receive their login information by telephoning the HKAOA office on 27360823 or email to [email protected].
A high level of response from the aircrew group will maximize the value of the survey.
The survey can be found at the following address:
Steve Turner
President
HKAOA
10 March 2008
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The Management saying there is NOT a shortage of pilots is just Propaganda B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.
Contract Compliance is the only way to get through to these W.A.N.K.E.R.S.
C.C
C.C
C.C
Contract Compliance is the only way to get through to these W.A.N.K.E.R.S.
C.C
C.C
C.C
Last edited by Baron Captain ?; 14th Mar 2008 at 00:29.
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Are you the same Baron who saw a ghost riding a bicycle down the runway at Melbourne a few years back?
I thought THAT was as funny as it gets but then you go and type this. You are obviously still self medicating.
I thought THAT was as funny as it gets but then you go and type this. You are obviously still self medicating.
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Anyone having problems logging on to the AOA website?
I keep getting directed to a completely irrelevant webpage, that starts off with this:
The text just gets weirder after that and the same goes for when I try to access HKALPA page as well.
Anyone else having the same issues? Any mac gurus who know how to rectify it?
Lite
Placeholder page
If you are just browsing the web
The owner of this web site has not put up any web pages yet. Please come back later.
Move along, nothing to see here... :-)
If you are just browsing the web
The owner of this web site has not put up any web pages yet. Please come back later.
Move along, nothing to see here... :-)
Anyone else having the same issues? Any mac gurus who know how to rectify it?
Lite
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We don’t have a crew shortage, we have a training shortage. I would like to thank all the Checking and Training crew for their continued help. We like to think with your training salary and overtime you are being well compensated especially those on the higher salary package. Again Thank You.
We have heard some trainer’s state not to join training but were the first to take an opportunity to join the STC ranks. Maybe those individuals may think there will be a pay rise but we believe the package is a great package.
We have many second tier pilots joining The Cathay Pacific Group and many more on the recruitment list. With this new Unified pay scale increase and increase in new freighter captain’s scale we are sure that many will be joining The Cathay Pacific Group.
At present, we are training limited so we need more pilots to join our Check and Training system. It is a great package and movement within the C & T group can be quite fast (20% contribution to your PF when you graduate to STC), so come and join us now for a rewarding career movement.
After reviewing the HKAOA survey we are very confident no one will vote for major industrial. We know that pilots will get sick to their stomach when they read the latter questions on the survey. The pilots don’t have the stomach for it and as we see very few pilots are not working on G days. Many pilots have told us if major industrial action does get voted in, they will quit the HKAOA and we will not pick those individuals for contract termination.
Most pilots know we have a very good salary and benefit’s package and our higher paid pilots will not risk losing that (they know they have a great package). How many opportunities do you have; to be a wide-body captain at the age of 35? They will not put their career on the line for a vocal minority.
Will pilots quit and move to greener pastures………..well look at how many have and how many returned. We are the best compensated pilots in Asia and the Middle East. Look at how many retire on the B Scale package; so we know that package is just where it should be.
Those that think contract compliance will bring on A scale salaries or salary increases are sadly mistaken, it will only bring on career changes for certain individuals. Many will talk the talk but very few live by their words. Some will encourage our naïve thinking pilots to do contract compliance and they themselves will not out of fear. We have seen this all before.
We are very confident the pilots will not vote for contract compliance as we just have to terminate 1-2 pilots that practice contract compliance and the rest will fall neatly into line. Don’t be those 1-2 pilots. Who really cares if we lose 1-2 pilots and no one will put their career on the line for them, so we win. We have a very compliant pilot work force.
By our statistical data, we have many pilots helping The Cathay Pacific Group i.e. working on G days, commanders discretion, interoperating the AFTL’s our way and now that the FACA is no more, flying the freighter and we like to thank those pilots.
With all the data of pilots helping out, we have a small list of people…..well you know the rest.
Enjoy your one month plus 6000; I know I will be enjoying mine as it is measured in double digit months. Now where is that Ferrari brochure?
To My Bonus and Peak Living.
The Management
We have heard some trainer’s state not to join training but were the first to take an opportunity to join the STC ranks. Maybe those individuals may think there will be a pay rise but we believe the package is a great package.
We have many second tier pilots joining The Cathay Pacific Group and many more on the recruitment list. With this new Unified pay scale increase and increase in new freighter captain’s scale we are sure that many will be joining The Cathay Pacific Group.
At present, we are training limited so we need more pilots to join our Check and Training system. It is a great package and movement within the C & T group can be quite fast (20% contribution to your PF when you graduate to STC), so come and join us now for a rewarding career movement.
After reviewing the HKAOA survey we are very confident no one will vote for major industrial. We know that pilots will get sick to their stomach when they read the latter questions on the survey. The pilots don’t have the stomach for it and as we see very few pilots are not working on G days. Many pilots have told us if major industrial action does get voted in, they will quit the HKAOA and we will not pick those individuals for contract termination.
Most pilots know we have a very good salary and benefit’s package and our higher paid pilots will not risk losing that (they know they have a great package). How many opportunities do you have; to be a wide-body captain at the age of 35? They will not put their career on the line for a vocal minority.
Will pilots quit and move to greener pastures………..well look at how many have and how many returned. We are the best compensated pilots in Asia and the Middle East. Look at how many retire on the B Scale package; so we know that package is just where it should be.
Those that think contract compliance will bring on A scale salaries or salary increases are sadly mistaken, it will only bring on career changes for certain individuals. Many will talk the talk but very few live by their words. Some will encourage our naïve thinking pilots to do contract compliance and they themselves will not out of fear. We have seen this all before.
We are very confident the pilots will not vote for contract compliance as we just have to terminate 1-2 pilots that practice contract compliance and the rest will fall neatly into line. Don’t be those 1-2 pilots. Who really cares if we lose 1-2 pilots and no one will put their career on the line for them, so we win. We have a very compliant pilot work force.
By our statistical data, we have many pilots helping The Cathay Pacific Group i.e. working on G days, commanders discretion, interoperating the AFTL’s our way and now that the FACA is no more, flying the freighter and we like to thank those pilots.
With all the data of pilots helping out, we have a small list of people…..well you know the rest.
Enjoy your one month plus 6000; I know I will be enjoying mine as it is measured in double digit months. Now where is that Ferrari brochure?
To My Bonus and Peak Living.
The Management
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Hey Management Guy,
Have you ever done a staff course?
Interesting choice of terminology and apostrophes.
Tried to look this one up, but all I could find was The Swire Group...
Funny you should mention this: I had one this morning...
Ever seen one of these
?
Again, the apostrophe, not to mention the word "interoperating"!
Overall, I think that post is worth a "C". Nice try at emulating the other Management poster, but either English is not your first language, or you were too busy trying to scare little Susy with paper mache willies to pay attention at school.
With fantastic people like you "leading" this company, it just goes to show how little Cathay needs in the way of management to make a huge profit in HK.
To my retirement with friends and family..
Have you ever done a staff course?
trainer’s state not to join training
benefit’s package
The Cathay Pacific Group
a rewarding career movement
How many opportunities do you have; to be a wide-body captain
:
interoperating the AFTL’s
Overall, I think that post is worth a "C". Nice try at emulating the other Management poster, but either English is not your first language, or you were too busy trying to scare little Susy with paper mache willies to pay attention at school.
With fantastic people like you "leading" this company, it just goes to show how little Cathay needs in the way of management to make a huge profit in HK.
To my retirement with friends and family..
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Management...hmmm, you have lost the plot!
Hey Management,
Any respect you may have had in the past has surely evaporated now after this last post of yours.
No shortage of pilots? Lots on the recruiting list? Sorely mistaken, or is your head so far up your
that you believe your mates/peers?
Guys are being begged to start courses as soon after their second interviews as possible because there are NO PILOTS in the hold file! No Ozzies, no Euros and almost single digit Americans. Don't believe it? Have a chat with some folks on the 6th floor FCTC.
Any respect you may have had in the past has surely evaporated now after this last post of yours.
No shortage of pilots? Lots on the recruiting list? Sorely mistaken, or is your head so far up your
that you believe your mates/peers?Guys are being begged to start courses as soon after their second interviews as possible because there are NO PILOTS in the hold file! No Ozzies, no Euros and almost single digit Americans. Don't believe it? Have a chat with some folks on the 6th floor FCTC.
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There is some Irish guy - who can't spell and don't know anything about CX - applying for DEFO in HKG.....
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=318063
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=318063
Last edited by missingblade; 14th Mar 2008 at 14:07.
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Why should we do anything overtly? Do you really need the AOA to tell you work to your contract? The survey should be enough. You should have been doing this a year ago.
If we all just did it, there wouldn’t be a target for CX.
But I presume that would be too organized for the pilot group. I presume most pilots would think their group/status is doing more that some and putting their head above the parapet.
Just work to the AFTL’s, no more no less. Do use any goodwill, which means no discretion or being contactable.
How hard is that?
If we all just did it, there wouldn’t be a target for CX.
But I presume that would be too organized for the pilot group. I presume most pilots would think their group/status is doing more that some and putting their head above the parapet.
Just work to the AFTL’s, no more no less. Do use any goodwill, which means no discretion or being contactable.
How hard is that?