CX B777-300ER Rest Area for Pilots

[EFIS123]

Hi guys.

Doing some research and want to see if you guys get the Boeing fitted crew rest area for pilots above L1 and R1 doors in the ceiling.....with the 2 chairs certified for take off/landing and the two bunks etc.

Thanks for your detailed response.

Oh yes another quick question - do you guys have layover rules for Ultra Long Haul Flights. For example when you fly to New York, what is the flight time each way, and what is your layover time? Is there a minimum layover time?

Just wondering because the brass in my neck of the woods have instituted a 24 hour layover for a 17 hour flight to Houston. Thanks a lot. And we have taken out the pilot bunks and have to sleep at the other end with the crew....not 'with the crew'....but you know what I mean.

[BuzzBox]

Yes, CX 300ERs have the overhead flight crew rest area up the front.

Minimum required rest periods on ULR flights where the time difference between the places where the preceding Duty Period started and finished is six hours or more:

1. Where the rest period starts less than 72 hours after the start of the Duty Period that resulted in the flight crew member first becoming unacclimatised (a flight crew member is considered unacclimatised as soon as he/she finishes a Duty Period at a place where the Local Time differs by more than three hours from his/her Home Base Local Time):
   
   The longest of:
   
   • The length of the preceding Duty Period
   • Fourteen hours
   • A period sufficient to allow a sleep opportunity within the period 2200 to 0800 Home Base Local Time.
   
   
2. Where the rest period starts 72 hours or more after the start of the Duty Period that resulted in the flight crew member first becoming unacclimatised:
   
   The longest of:
   
   • The length of the preceding Duty Period
   • Fourteen hours
   • A period sufficient to allow a sleep opportunity within the period 2200 to 0800 Local Time at place of rest.

As an alternative to 1. and 2. above, the rest period can be the longer of:

• The length of the preceding Duty Period, or
• 34 hours.

Clear as mud??

Scheduled Duty Periods for our JFK flights:

HKG-JFK: 17:05
JFK-HKG: 17:40

In practice, there are two JFK flights each day; one pattern gets a scheduled layover of 34:20, while the other gets 48:15.

[The Messiah]

I don't think there is a 300-ER without overhead seats certified for take-off and landing, they are not options as far as I'm aware. They were options originally but by delivery time they no longer were.

[Glass Half Empty]

"As an alternative to 1. and 2. above, the rest period can be the longer of:

• The length of the preceding Duty Period, or
• 34 hours"

Who gets to choose the alternative rest period and in what circumstances?

[BuzzBox]

Who gets to choose the alternative rest period...

The Company. It sure aint the flight crew.

and in what circumstances?

When it suits them.

[EFIS123]

Yes you are correct re the new 777s being firm in having the Pilot Crew Rest Areas there. Not an option. Some companies though .... then uninstall them while they fit the new cabins. Sweet.

Just to confirm though - your minimum rest of an ultralong haul flight is 34 hours. Cannot be less. Is that correct????

[404 Titan]

EFIS123

Just to confirm though - your minimum rest of an ultralong haul flight is 34 hours. Cannot be less. Is that correct????

No that is incorrect. Basically min rest is the length of the proceding duty period or 12 hours which ever is the greater. There are a few other requirements but I won't go into them here so as not to complicate things too much.

[BuzzBox]

Basically min rest is the length of the proceding duty period or 12 hours which ever is the greater.

Yes, but that clause of the AFTLS only applies in the event some kind of roster disruption occurs. Under normal circumstances flight crew must be given the minimum 'Physiological Rest' stated in the AFTLS. For a typical out and back ULR pattern from HKG, para 1 applies, ie the longest of:

• The length of the preceding duty period,
• 14 hours, or
• a period sufficient to allow a sleep opportunity (ie 8 consecutive hours) within the period 2200 to 0800 hours home base local time.

The minimum rest period is therefore the length of the preceding duty period or 14 hours, whichever is the greater, provided that period allows a sleep opportunity of at least 8 hours between 2200-0800 local time for the flight crew member's home base.

In practice, the requirement to provide an 8-hour sleep opportunity at the flight crew member's normal home base 'sleep time' is often limiting.

For example, the current 840/841 New York pattern arrives JFK at 2125 local time (1025 HK time), the rest period starts at 2155 local time and the total duty period is 17:05. According to the rules, the next sleep opportunity doesn't occur until 2200 HK time, or 0900 local time - 8 hours later would be 1700 local time. The sleep opportunity doesn't include the 1 hour before leaving the hotel or the travelling time back to the airport, say 45 minutes. That makes the earliest sign-on time 1845 local, for a total rest period of 20:50.

The minimum rest required would therefore be the greater of:

• The length of the preceding duty period, ie 17:05
• 14 hours
• The period that allows an 8-hour sleep opportunity, ie 20:50

Having said all that, the normal layover for the 840/841 pattern is approximately 34 hours.

[Speedbird]

Min Rest

Under Comanders Discretion it can be 10 hours in the pub. That is how the CAD interpret it.

Otherwise previous duty period for a JFK trip.

[Mr. Bloggs]

Ten hours in the pub if you agree and not when Crew Control use 16.3.

Section 16.3 in which the company can reduce your physiological rest to “Normal Rest” (which equals 12 hours or as long as the previous duty) and this “may not” be reduced further by the use of commanders discretion. Some managers think they can do this but it is their interpretation only. If your previous duty is over 18 hours, then rest must include a local night.

The key words in 16.3 are “Roster Disruption”. What is the definition? There isn’t any. Crew Control will say there is a roster disruption to suit their needs.

We may get some management creep in here to tell you otherwise.

Let the debate begin.

[Gigaboomer]

I dont mean to start a thread drift but what engines do the Cathay 777-300ERs have? I have heard it is a GE engine which is a little surprising as I thought Cathay would have stuck with the RR Trent. Any info would be a help as I have an interview shortly.

Cheers

[The Messiah]

I thought all 300ER's had GE-90's? Trent is not an option as far as I'm aware but I've been known to be wrong.

[geh065]

Correct, the 777-300ER and 777-200LR only come with GE90s.

[BuzzBox]

what engines do the Cathay 777-300ERs have?

GE90-115B - 115,000lb thrust