The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
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Congrats Takamasa, on wanting to join my employer. Then again, maybe it's not such a good idea? The way our management treat us, well, they can actually treat you alright if you know how to be a butt-kisser. Not exactly a recommendation I suppose.
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Dragonair beware HKA is coming
Total Number of Aircraft Now ------------------ 12
Confirmed Orders of Aircraft:
Boeing 737-800 (Hong Kong Airlines) ---------------4
Boeing 737-800 (Hong Kong Express Airways) ------4
Airbus 330-200 -------------------------------- -20
Airbus 320 ------------------------------------ -30
Total Orders ---------------------------------- 58
Confirmed Orders of Aircraft:
Boeing 737-800 (Hong Kong Airlines) ---------------4
Boeing 737-800 (Hong Kong Express Airways) ------4
Airbus 330-200 -------------------------------- -20
Airbus 320 ------------------------------------ -30
Total Orders ---------------------------------- 58
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Total Orders ---------------------------------- 58
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That's why HKIA is coming up with the 3rd runway proposal project! 
Waffler
They do not need pilots like you anyway. Stay in ireland and keep trying. 
Gong Xi Fa Choy!
Safe landings!
Waffler
When I heard that Hong Kong Airlines were getting the A330, it got my interest however after reading this forum I realised what a bunch of asses the management are.So they can stick the job right up there.
Stay in ireland and keep trying. Gong Xi Fa Choy!
Safe landings!
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Sorry, I don't know what they are offering, but the fact that you're asking means that you haven't read much of this thread. To summarise; it doesn't matter what they offer, what your contract says or what they tell you at interview. IT WILL CHANGE.
There have been 4 contract changes in just over 2 years. The changes were made very quickly. In many cases pay packets were reduced before amended contracts were signed. Unpaid Leave was started overnight and no repayment has ever been made, unlike at other airlines.
Expat benefits (like flights and shipping allowance) were removed making it more difficult for pilots to leave. In return they introduced a gratuity payment - 15% of your salary after 3 years service. They then cut basic pay by 40-55%. If you didn't sign the contract they sacked you and didn't pay pro rata gratuity (some pilots had served more than 2 and a half years so were coming up for their gratuity). Gratuity has now been stopped.
This has been part of several court cases brought by pilots against HKA. They know that most pilots can't stay around in HK once they're out of employment so the company doesn't settle final payment correctly and drags out court cases as long as possible.
This thread gives more details and examples of what it's like to work at HKA, but as you can see, once you've settled in Hong Kong; it doesn't matter what they offer you, what your contract says or what they tell you at interview. IT WILL CHANGE.
There have been 4 contract changes in just over 2 years. The changes were made very quickly. In many cases pay packets were reduced before amended contracts were signed. Unpaid Leave was started overnight and no repayment has ever been made, unlike at other airlines.
Expat benefits (like flights and shipping allowance) were removed making it more difficult for pilots to leave. In return they introduced a gratuity payment - 15% of your salary after 3 years service. They then cut basic pay by 40-55%. If you didn't sign the contract they sacked you and didn't pay pro rata gratuity (some pilots had served more than 2 and a half years so were coming up for their gratuity). Gratuity has now been stopped.
This has been part of several court cases brought by pilots against HKA. They know that most pilots can't stay around in HK once they're out of employment so the company doesn't settle final payment correctly and drags out court cases as long as possible.
This thread gives more details and examples of what it's like to work at HKA, but as you can see, once you've settled in Hong Kong; it doesn't matter what they offer you, what your contract says or what they tell you at interview. IT WILL CHANGE.
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@Jamie J,
You are understating the contract terms, your contract won't just change, it will be guarantee to changed ALOT. Believe me, I've seen contract changes even worse then what you quoted. Unless of course you are willing to butt-kiss the management, then things might be better for you...
You are understating the contract terms, your contract won't just change, it will be guarantee to changed ALOT. Believe me, I've seen contract changes even worse then what you quoted. Unless of course you are willing to butt-kiss the management, then things might be better for you...
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What is the A330 Package?
Someone posted that here in this thread. I guess you just need to get off your lazy ass and read this thread fully to find out as HKA will not have a clear answer for you. Even Staff at HKA do not know. While you’re at it reading the thread in its entirety might give you a better understanding of the mindset of the management. Or lack of.
It’s no coincidence that HKA is not making the package "clear" to wannabe HKA pilots. First they will attract you with false promises and “what you want to hear” then go against their word/contract/promise/interview talk. History repeats itself over and over at HKA
Just out of interest, where is the A330 job advertised? Which paper or magazine or agency? …Besides the Singapore air force canteen.
Boys and girls; there are many better options out there. Fly at Shenzhen or in India or Korea for a while until things pick up. You will be checked to line in a few weeks earning full pay.
At HKA your training will drag on for 6 months + you will be on a training wage, and after your check to line your flight hours will be low. Be advised that your base salary will only be about 30,000 for a Co-pilot and 40,000 for a captain. If they tell you expect 80,000 HK per month that is based on 80 hours flying and 30-40,000 in flight pay which you will not be getting. While the training continues, you will be earning bare minimum. i.e. Basic salary with little or no flight pay.
If you get offered an interview, ask for the package with all details and the contract in writing and post it here. I guarantee they will say “we are working on it and it is not in print yet”
If you decide to join, expect contract changes at short notice. Pilots are not even consulted or asked for advice; just an email to say “Effective immediately your pay has been cut 40-50%. Come to the office and sign the new contract by Monday. Failure to sign will cause your contract to be void” Pilots that did not sign were fired. The courts ruled in the companies favor in the unfair dismissal cases.
Remember contracts mean nothing in Hong Kong If you try to take them to court, you will get nowhere. Also the management is from mainland China. Even worse then Hong Kong when it comes to treatment of employees.
Good luck at your interview with any company but HKA.
Last edited by prettyfly4awhiteguy; 23rd Feb 2010 at 12:02. Reason: correction: changed base salary from 50,000 to 40,000
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Some contract details
While I can not get exact details of the A330 deal, I can shed some light on other aspects of the Package. (1 USD = 7.75 HKD)
Salary Captain - 40,000 (US 4387 net)
Salary Co-Pilot - 30,000 (US 3290 net)
Plus flight pay (IF... you fly)
Statutory holidays in Hong Kong = 17 days. 28 days minus 17 days = Annual leave 11 days.
Basically this means your get 11 annual leave days each year. You work public holidays and get no extra payment for that. You do not get an extra day off because your next DDO is considered your "alternative holiday” Even if your DDO is legally required for legal rest reasons.
Provident fund (retirement fund) is only about 5%. 20 years of service at the company as a captain = 960,000 HKD in provident fund (123,000 USD) try retiring on that… And if you leave before 10 years of service you’re not entitled to that full amount.
No housing allowance. Average rent in Hong Kong 40,000 per month.
. Try getting a breakfast, lunch and dinner at a western style restaurant in Moscow or any European city for that.
(It means they can and will fire you at any time and you owe the company the entire 50,000 in full)
(you will be required to pay US 50,000)
Medical Scheme- Basically Nil.
Accomadation at outports – Suitable 2 or 3 star accommodation will be provided. Bring your own DVD player and food as no room service or English television is provided. Use your US 50 allowance for taxi fare to Western restaurant and spend your own money on food. Most of the cheap hotels provided have no temperature climate control in accordance with CAD requirements. You will not get good rest.
(Try operating safely after a positioning flight after sitting next to a crying baby in economy class and getting no sleep.) Please note you are paid NIL flight pay for duty travel and positioning flights. You do that for free.)
Rosters – Issued once monthly. Should be issued 10 days before the end of the month but is always late. For example it is Feb 24th and the March roster is still not issued. 4 days before the month end.
It is typical to be given forced annual leave (company reserves the right to) and it might start on the 1st March. You find out a few days before. Try getting a cheap ticket to Brazil 5 days before departure. Oh and if you did not know, this Expat pilot package includes absolutely no free flights home like normal international pilot contracts.
Commuting contract. On trial at present. If they are promising you this forget it. Mr Wong the head of rostering is very much against its success, so is the GMF (general Manager of flying) Guys on the commute trial were not given the promised commute in the month of February 2010.
Conditions of commuting.
Salary Captain - 40,000 (US 4387 net)
Salary Co-Pilot - 30,000 (US 3290 net)
Plus flight pay (IF... you fly)
Pilots will be entitled to 28 days of annual leave per calendar year, inclusive of public holidays and statutory holidays.
Where a pilot is rostered for duty on a day, which is statutory holiday, pursuant to Section 39(1) of the Employment Ordinance, the next rostered DDO shall be deemed to be an alternative holiday for the purpose of Section 39(2) of the Employment Ordinance. (Note you do not choose your alternative holiday and can not add it to your annual leave holiday)
Provident fund (retirement fund) is only about 5%. 20 years of service at the company as a captain = 960,000 HKD in provident fund (123,000 USD) try retiring on that… And if you leave before 10 years of service you’re not entitled to that full amount.
No housing allowance. Average rent in Hong Kong 40,000 per month.
Out port allowance – US $50 per 24 hours
Non Type rated Pilots pay at least US $30,000 for a “training grant” You will be required to serve for 3 years. Lower time pilots pay 50,000 and are required to serve 5 years.
Any pilot who resigns from the Company, before the expiry of their Training Grant, will become liable for the re-payment of the Training costs to the Company in accordance with the following schedule:
h. The Training Grant will be repayable in full for resignation during the first year of employment immediately following successful conversion training.
i. The Training Grant will be repayable in full for dismissal with cause from the Company at anytime during the first year of employment immediately following successful conversion
Training.
j. For resignation and dismissal with cause from the Company, the Training Grant repayable shall be subject to pro-rata reduction (on a monthly basis) after the first year, over the remaining duration of the obligatory period.
k. Repayment is waived for dismissal from the Company by notice or payment in lieu of notice by the Company.
Any pilot who resigns from the Company, before the expiry of their Training Grant, will become liable for the re-payment of the Training costs to the Company in accordance with the following schedule:
h. The Training Grant will be repayable in full for resignation during the first year of employment immediately following successful conversion training.
i. The Training Grant will be repayable in full for dismissal with cause from the Company at anytime during the first year of employment immediately following successful conversion
Training.
j. For resignation and dismissal with cause from the Company, the Training Grant repayable shall be subject to pro-rata reduction (on a monthly basis) after the first year, over the remaining duration of the obligatory period.
k. Repayment is waived for dismissal from the Company by notice or payment in lieu of notice by the Company.
Pilots joining HKA Ltd shall be engaged on probation for the first twelve (12) months from the joining date. Employees, who fail to fulfill the Company’s requirements during the probationary period, will either be given notice of termination.
TERMINATION
Service may be terminated prior to normal retirement:
At any time either by the Company:
During probation, by giving seven (07) days’ written notice or payment in lieu.
Service may be terminated prior to normal retirement:
At any time either by the Company:
During probation, by giving seven (07) days’ written notice or payment in lieu.
Accomadation at outports – Suitable 2 or 3 star accommodation will be provided. Bring your own DVD player and food as no room service or English television is provided. Use your US 50 allowance for taxi fare to Western restaurant and spend your own money on food. Most of the cheap hotels provided have no temperature climate control in accordance with CAD requirements. You will not get good rest.
DUTY TRAVEL
Duty travel refers to overseas travel at the request and/or behalf of the Company, and/or in the course of their assigned duties. The Employee shall normally travel on Economy Class air tickets.
Duty travel refers to overseas travel at the request and/or behalf of the Company, and/or in the course of their assigned duties. The Employee shall normally travel on Economy Class air tickets.
Rosters – Issued once monthly. Should be issued 10 days before the end of the month but is always late. For example it is Feb 24th and the March roster is still not issued. 4 days before the month end.
It is typical to be given forced annual leave (company reserves the right to) and it might start on the 1st March. You find out a few days before. Try getting a cheap ticket to Brazil 5 days before departure. Oh and if you did not know, this Expat pilot package includes absolutely no free flights home like normal international pilot contracts.
Commuting contract. On trial at present. If they are promising you this forget it. Mr Wong the head of rostering is very much against its success, so is the GMF (general Manager of flying) Guys on the commute trial were not given the promised commute in the month of February 2010.
Conditions of commuting.
- Your commute is at YOUR own expense.
- Your commute could start on 1st of the month and with roster late, you get 4 days to book your tickets.
- Commute roster is 7 days off each month. 3 of those days are your own annual leave days.
- You use all of you annual leave days in 8 months or less. What happens after 8 months us unknown as the company has put nothing in writing.
- You get no additional annual leave days beside the ones you used in commuting.
- Note you can not do 2 months of commuting roster “back to back” i.e. 14 days off.
- The company reserves the right to cancel the commuting roster at any time they wish.
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Easy decision really. Just don't even bother applying, unless you want to entertain yourself with a bunch of economic terrorists. Did the guys who prepared the contract work in Nigeria, by any chance, on email scams?
Runway incursion anyone?
Runway incursion anyone?
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hahaThat so funny.
They advertising on website for Australia pilot union?
But they threat and try to scare pilots in Hong Kong pilot union. I realy thing management medically insanity.
I can not stop laughing.
Please union pilots come to work at HKA and make some problems.
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As someone on the "inside", let me tell you, the management is beyond insane. I don't have the right word to put it, but I suspect they are trying to brainwash us by forcing us to recite that $%%^, kind of like 1984, transform us into compliant automation. Scary thing is, it might be working, arghhhh
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Intelligent pilot: Average rent in Hong Kong 40,000 per month -
I think you got that one wrong!
I think you got that one wrong!
As someone posted here a few pages back 40-50000 is just the average.
Hong Kong Real Estate Most Expensive Rental Market in the World
World's most expensive rental markets
Most Expensive and Cheapest Rentals in the World | Moving it Globally
World's Most Expensive Rental Markets - Forbes.com
That's what's happening in Hong Kong. There, in dollar-adjusted terms, a two-bedroom, unfurnished apartment runs $6,398 ($49,584 HKD) a month
Sue,
The Col. is a bit of a moron on the Aussie forums. Sounds like a bored VA CFO or a QF SO who enjoys stirring. Best treat his posts as a bit of a laugh.
No way known would you a job the HKE/HKA. The last 12 months of reading this thread is evidence enough.
j3
The Col. is a bit of a moron on the Aussie forums. Sounds like a bored VA CFO or a QF SO who enjoys stirring. Best treat his posts as a bit of a laugh.
No way known would you a job the HKE/HKA. The last 12 months of reading this thread is evidence enough.
j3
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To J3pipercub
I never expected such contemp from you.
Seeing as you only fly freight single pilot , why are you also looking at this HK post unless you need a new job. dont be hypocritical.
yes you are not as anonymous as you think.
Be careful the colonel has contacts that can affect anyones career
salute
The Colonel
I never expected such contemp from you.
Seeing as you only fly freight single pilot , why are you also looking at this HK post unless you need a new job. dont be hypocritical.
yes you are not as anonymous as you think.
Be careful the colonel has contacts that can affect anyones career
salute
The Colonel
Ooooh no Colonel, I'm shaking in my little booties.
I have been reading this thread for 18 months, and after reading all of the comments about the overt racism in the company, found it ironic that there is an ad for pilots in Aus. I came back into the thread to see if there had been any comments about the advertisement,and who should I find asking stupid questions? Surpirse surprise.
Trust me, I neither need or want a new job, especially if it means one day sharing a cockpit with HUGE sidchromes like yourself. I'd gladly stick with flying a dirty old single pilot freighter if that was the trade off. Besides, only fly freight single pilot? why is there an only there?
Fwoar! You have contacts, you're a legend. Out me for who I am, I don't care, a great number of people know who my real identity is on here and it doesn't worry me in the slightest. But is it you who has the contacts, or your daddy the QF skipper?
j3
I have been reading this thread for 18 months, and after reading all of the comments about the overt racism in the company, found it ironic that there is an ad for pilots in Aus. I came back into the thread to see if there had been any comments about the advertisement,and who should I find asking stupid questions? Surpirse surprise.
Trust me, I neither need or want a new job, especially if it means one day sharing a cockpit with HUGE sidchromes like yourself. I'd gladly stick with flying a dirty old single pilot freighter if that was the trade off. Besides, only fly freight single pilot? why is there an only there?
Fwoar! You have contacts, you're a legend. Out me for who I am, I don't care, a great number of people know who my real identity is on here and it doesn't worry me in the slightest. But is it you who has the contacts, or your daddy the QF skipper?
j3