A new President and GC - what then? Negotiation, contract compliance,more industrial?
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I have always believed that the President is a notional position - not a position of power. It shouldn't matter who is in the seat. The President and GC lead where the membership want to go.
2001 vs 2008
In 2001 we had Sep 11, failure of Ansett and most of the owner occupiers were looking at negative equity. B scales had had payrises every year since 1993. We had hong kong employment law. EK salaries were less than ours.
In 2008 we have a world wide shortage of pilots. Owner occupiers are in positive territory. B scales have received a 3% payrise(on some bases) to cover the period Jul01-Dec08. We still have hong kong employment law but CX now have the clouds of 1st world labour laws impinging on their 3rd world labour practices. EK salaries have already risen over 40%(last 5 years) and if the rumours are true, in Apr 08 they will be almost double what they were in 01, and well above CX salaries today. In the last few months, KA have been given payrises amounting to 19+%, sim instructors 13%, ASL FEs 14% and B scales in CX, 3%!
So if I were starting out in CX, I would want to know what sort of future I am going to have. One driven by fear, cronyism, below market pay, but shiny new jets!? If that is the case, why fear anything they may do to you? Since 65 is becoming the industry standard, who cares if you spent the first 5-10 years in CX and the remaining 25-35 years at some other airline?
CX is just a job - with shiny new jets.
2001 vs 2008
In 2001 we had Sep 11, failure of Ansett and most of the owner occupiers were looking at negative equity. B scales had had payrises every year since 1993. We had hong kong employment law. EK salaries were less than ours.
In 2008 we have a world wide shortage of pilots. Owner occupiers are in positive territory. B scales have received a 3% payrise(on some bases) to cover the period Jul01-Dec08. We still have hong kong employment law but CX now have the clouds of 1st world labour laws impinging on their 3rd world labour practices. EK salaries have already risen over 40%(last 5 years) and if the rumours are true, in Apr 08 they will be almost double what they were in 01, and well above CX salaries today. In the last few months, KA have been given payrises amounting to 19+%, sim instructors 13%, ASL FEs 14% and B scales in CX, 3%!
So if I were starting out in CX, I would want to know what sort of future I am going to have. One driven by fear, cronyism, below market pay, but shiny new jets!? If that is the case, why fear anything they may do to you? Since 65 is becoming the industry standard, who cares if you spent the first 5-10 years in CX and the remaining 25-35 years at some other airline?
CX is just a job - with shiny new jets.
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Get the 10% needed for an AGM and get rid of current president and GC.
As far as contract talks etc. get everything and give nothing. It's a pilots paradise at the moment. Get more now and then we can give away that which we don't need.
I don't understand that they want stuff from us? There is a shortage of pilots and we need to take full advantage of this. They need to give back to us what they have taken over the last decade!
2008 is going to be an interesting year!
Plenty of rumours floating about.
Cathay product is lagging way behind the rest of the industry and Swire is not doing anything about it. For example look at the new Business class. They said they consulted with people about it before hand and did big public relationship deals over it BUT it was a lemon and now they try to cover it up. Admit to the mistake and get a new business class product. Cathay is losing Big time paying customers to the opposition.
As the advert campaign says for Cathay..."it's the little things that matter"
It might pay to listen to your own messages Swire!!!
Whoops - got distracted.. sorry
meow......
As far as contract talks etc. get everything and give nothing. It's a pilots paradise at the moment. Get more now and then we can give away that which we don't need.
I don't understand that they want stuff from us? There is a shortage of pilots and we need to take full advantage of this. They need to give back to us what they have taken over the last decade!
2008 is going to be an interesting year!
Plenty of rumours floating about.
Cathay product is lagging way behind the rest of the industry and Swire is not doing anything about it. For example look at the new Business class. They said they consulted with people about it before hand and did big public relationship deals over it BUT it was a lemon and now they try to cover it up. Admit to the mistake and get a new business class product. Cathay is losing Big time paying customers to the opposition.
As the advert campaign says for Cathay..."it's the little things that matter"
It might pay to listen to your own messages Swire!!!
Whoops - got distracted.. sorry
meow......
NC
The Dragonair payrise was 12% and thats stretching it. Sold taxis, food to get it, The SI's got the rise because they were over 50% undermanned on the -400 and the 777.
Fair enough if the GC get voted out but in a years time I'd look forward to seeing what some of the posters will be saying then (or even if the same names go on).
The Dragonair payrise was 12% and thats stretching it. Sold taxis, food to get it, The SI's got the rise because they were over 50% undermanned on the -400 and the 777.
Fair enough if the GC get voted out but in a years time I'd look forward to seeing what some of the posters will be saying then (or even if the same names go on).
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EGM
"We will terminate the contracts of Captains with Families, First Officers with families and possibly Second Officers with families. Those pilots will find it hard to find a wide body job that have the benefits/pay of The Cathay Pacific Group. "
Phaaaa...Ha.....Haaaa ha ha ha ha ha!
Now that is some funny sh*t!!!
Mate, I could take my wife and kids back to Oz, sign up for Centrelink unemployment benefits, and still have more disposable income than I do as an SO at Cathay!!!
Yes, it's definitely the current salary keeping me here!! Where else could I find a job which has me amassing wealth (hang on, that should be 'haemorrhaging a ****e load of savings') at my current rate???
Classic!!
Haa...ha ha ha!
EGM???? Yeah, I'll sign for it.
Phaaaa...Ha.....Haaaa ha ha ha ha ha!
Now that is some funny sh*t!!!
Mate, I could take my wife and kids back to Oz, sign up for Centrelink unemployment benefits, and still have more disposable income than I do as an SO at Cathay!!!
Yes, it's definitely the current salary keeping me here!! Where else could I find a job which has me amassing wealth (hang on, that should be 'haemorrhaging a ****e load of savings') at my current rate???
Classic!!
Haa...ha ha ha!
EGM???? Yeah, I'll sign for it.
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NC
This is is great thread! Well done!
You are spot on. I'm totally with you on this one. Let's get the 10% numbers, and get rid of current AOA leadership. Sign me up. Time's a waistin!
As for The Management; ignore him boys and girls. He's still working from the old rule book. Times have changed... and he knows it.
You are spot on. I'm totally with you on this one. Let's get the 10% numbers, and get rid of current AOA leadership. Sign me up. Time's a waistin!
As for The Management; ignore him boys and girls. He's still working from the old rule book. Times have changed... and he knows it.
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No, No, No!
Do NOT ignore The Management!
I have just finished printing out most of his posts, and I tell you, they make interesting reading. In fact, I am quite sure my solicitor will find them enchanting as well: he has already mentioned to me that any action (by the company) of the sort talked about by TM is going to lead to interesting times in the court room.
It is illegal (in HK, as well as nearly everywhere else) to actually put in place the activities so heartilly endorsed by TM.
So, the company is going to have a seriously hard time proving that any D&G procedure has nothing to do with: a. union activity, and b. was not a natural consequence of The Management's posts of - essentially - warning.
Oh, thank you, TM!!
Do NOT ignore The Management!
I have just finished printing out most of his posts, and I tell you, they make interesting reading. In fact, I am quite sure my solicitor will find them enchanting as well: he has already mentioned to me that any action (by the company) of the sort talked about by TM is going to lead to interesting times in the court room.
It is illegal (in HK, as well as nearly everywhere else) to actually put in place the activities so heartilly endorsed by TM.
So, the company is going to have a seriously hard time proving that any D&G procedure has nothing to do with: a. union activity, and b. was not a natural consequence of The Management's posts of - essentially - warning.
Oh, thank you, TM!!
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Back to topic.
So how are the required signatures going to be collected? The highly scientific PPRuNe straw poll suggests there is a desire for change, or a least a bit of a shake up at the top. It's going to be a while before the results are collated if the intention is to use a voting-slip in the mailbox.
What about the AOA online voting facility (or does that require 10% member approval....)?
Let's not just talk about it (hiding behind a pseudynom) and then not take action (like seems to happen more times than not).
Fly safe
So how are the required signatures going to be collected? The highly scientific PPRuNe straw poll suggests there is a desire for change, or a least a bit of a shake up at the top. It's going to be a while before the results are collated if the intention is to use a voting-slip in the mailbox.
What about the AOA online voting facility (or does that require 10% member approval....)?
Let's not just talk about it (hiding behind a pseudynom) and then not take action (like seems to happen more times than not).
Fly safe
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NC, you contributed to losing alot of guys their jobs in 2001, what are you up to this time? Yes, let's replace the Prez and VPs, but wait the GC is not even full, especially after you threw your toys out of the cot, so who is going to be stupid enough to work to better your lot? Why are your spending so much time apologising to the B Scale for the contract you are on? Stop whinging and put some real work in.
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mini cooper,
my calculations have 10 years in EK worth well over 30% more in after tax dollars without using ERP. ERP is like the CPALRS ( A scale provident fund) currency compensation....it is supposed to compensate you for changes in the present exchange rate versus what it was a few years ago. The EK ERP system is 'opaque' so we don't know what time period they are looking at. I do know the A scale prov fund compensation has been reducing...and obviously CX is ahead of the curve with B scales by offering no compensation for currency movements!
To the others that have asked me questions or attacked me....may I suggest you are attacking the man instead of the ball? If I could relive my life I would do many things differently....this thread was not about what NC coulda or shoulda done. This thread was about what do the members want to do about where we find our selves now!
Something I want to make clear...I have no doubts as to the integrity of the executive of the GC....far from it. Its just that I think the direction they want to go in is very different to the direction the membership wants to go in. I personally think the best way forward is to wait until the normal annual changeover of GC members and then change direction. But I started this thread as many people advised me that the best way forward is to take action now. I can assure you I have no aspirations for AOA leadership...it is a thankless job normally undertaken by those with incredible self sacrifice. I have worked for 3 different presidents and I have admired them all!
I like reading the 'managements' posts as it reminds me of what I am afraid of....I am afraid of not getting my next months salary and meeting my commitments to my ex wife, the banks, bill payments etc. But then it makes me aware of the yoke I have placed over my own shoulders and how my happiness is not actually dependent on my next month's salary....I am responsible for my happiness, CX just contributes to my cash flow.
my calculations have 10 years in EK worth well over 30% more in after tax dollars without using ERP. ERP is like the CPALRS ( A scale provident fund) currency compensation....it is supposed to compensate you for changes in the present exchange rate versus what it was a few years ago. The EK ERP system is 'opaque' so we don't know what time period they are looking at. I do know the A scale prov fund compensation has been reducing...and obviously CX is ahead of the curve with B scales by offering no compensation for currency movements!
To the others that have asked me questions or attacked me....may I suggest you are attacking the man instead of the ball? If I could relive my life I would do many things differently....this thread was not about what NC coulda or shoulda done. This thread was about what do the members want to do about where we find our selves now!
Something I want to make clear...I have no doubts as to the integrity of the executive of the GC....far from it. Its just that I think the direction they want to go in is very different to the direction the membership wants to go in. I personally think the best way forward is to wait until the normal annual changeover of GC members and then change direction. But I started this thread as many people advised me that the best way forward is to take action now. I can assure you I have no aspirations for AOA leadership...it is a thankless job normally undertaken by those with incredible self sacrifice. I have worked for 3 different presidents and I have admired them all!
I like reading the 'managements' posts as it reminds me of what I am afraid of....I am afraid of not getting my next months salary and meeting my commitments to my ex wife, the banks, bill payments etc. But then it makes me aware of the yoke I have placed over my own shoulders and how my happiness is not actually dependent on my next month's salary....I am responsible for my happiness, CX just contributes to my cash flow.
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Good post NC and thanks for the efforts you are putting into CHANGING the AOA into a representative body for it's pilots, unlike it's current state.
Ignore the ad homonym attacks. We all have skeletons.
Ignore the ad homonym attacks. We all have skeletons.
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CX is just a job - with shiny new jets.
Sorry for the thread creep...where do I sign?
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Let's have an open and democratic vote on whether we wish to retain our leader. Bring on the EGM and support fully whoever gets elected. Turbulent times are ahead and we need all members singing from the same hymn sheet
