Seniority List - What & Why
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Seniority List - What & Why
Well, it's official. I kept a copy of the CX seniority list from the end of August. I said I'd get back to you if anything had changed, and can now let you know nothing has. My number has remained the same, which means either no-one has left/retired (unlikely), people are being hired ahead of me (very unlikely) or the list is not being updated. I've heard various rumours, from a wish to hide the size of our pilot body to preparing spaces to integrate KA pilots with our own (unlikely) but can anyone please shed light on:
What's going on?
Why is the list not being renewed?
BB
What's going on?
Why is the list not being renewed?
BB
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From D. H. , personell / fleet office and trng dept all have files which reference sen#. As it was continually changing it was becoming administratively difficult so now you keep the same number infinitum.
laughable isnt it
There goes your chance of getting to # 1 Buttie...... bugger !
laughable isnt it
There goes your chance of getting to # 1 Buttie...... bugger !
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Yes this is certainly a complete joke. I have been watching it for a while now and noticed when someone leaves or retires etc they do actually take there name off very quickly and also add the new joiners fairly promptly as well. In any other company when someone leaves everybody bumps up one closer to number one!! Not the case in CX of course. Got to be difficult!! I spoke the Dont Know How and he said that the number you have now is the one you keep for your whole career. I told him I already have an ERN# and a Licence# that tell you who I am. A seniority number is a completely different thing and allows us to see how close to to the top of the pile we are!!! He sat there a smiled blah blah blah..This is a complete joke, I suggest we all complain to the fleet office. Imagine in 25 years.#22oo could be the most senior guy/girl in the company and still be refered to as #2200. Try explaining that to the rest of the planet..!!
Merry Xmas all
Merry Xmas all
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thats really complete bxllox..the reality is that they haven't removed the ones who left the company, I personally know a few mates who have left the company since like May and they are still on the seniority list...
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Yes this is certainly a complete joke. I have been watching it for a while now and noticed when someone leaves or retires etc they do actually take there name off very quickly and also add the new joiners fairly promptly as well. In any other company when someone leaves everybody bumps up one closer to number one!! Not the case in CX of course. Got to be difficult!! I spoke the Dont Know How and he said that the number you have now is the one you keep for your whole career. I told him I already have an ERN# and a Licence# that tell you who I am. A seniority number is a completely different thing and allows us to see how close to to the top of the pile we are!!! He sat there a smiled blah blah blah..This is a complete joke, I suggest we all complain to the fleet office. Imagine in 25 years.#22oo could be the most senior guy/girl in the company and still be refered to as #2200. Try explaining that to the rest of the planet..!!
Then CX could hired someone, legally and give them a senior seniority number also paying them A scale. Since you are stuck at the bottom of the list of numbers, CX could legally say your a bottom feeder.
What is the Management point of view for this subject at hand?
Then CX could hired someone, legally and give them a senior seniority number also paying them A scale. Since you are stuck at the bottom of the list of numbers, CX could legally say your a bottom feeder.
What is the Management point of view for this subject at hand?
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Merry X-mas to Denly Dont know How and The CX Management. You all deserve a great big bonus. 
Ive been around long enough to know you deserve it more than anybody. Always taking care of your staff - only wanting the best - always. 
Ive been around long enough to know you deserve it more than anybody. Always taking care of your staff - only wanting the best - always.
what a load of bollocks.
Every other career Airline in the free world can work a number system ok.
It's just numbers on an Excel spreadsheet isn't it? don't the spreadsheets re-calculate for you if you delete someone? mmmm
CX is trying to hide something.................no doubt about it.
WHERE IS THE AOA ON THIS MATTER?
As far as I'm concerned this is just not acceptable from a major career Airline, for god sake this is not an aeroclub.
I think I'll ring Denly up after Xmas and ask him exactly how many numbers are ahead of me and he'd better bloody well know the answer...........
Every other career Airline in the free world can work a number system ok.
It's just numbers on an Excel spreadsheet isn't it? don't the spreadsheets re-calculate for you if you delete someone? mmmm
CX is trying to hide something.................no doubt about it.
WHERE IS THE AOA ON THIS MATTER?
As far as I'm concerned this is just not acceptable from a major career Airline, for god sake this is not an aeroclub.
I think I'll ring Denly up after Xmas and ask him exactly how many numbers are ahead of me and he'd better bloody well know the answer...........
Doesn't our COS state something about Seniority? Therefore CX must by law maintain a seniority list for the purposes of promotion etc????????
Even if they are too stupid/incompetent to update the list numbers it still should be provided on request. We can count out the slots ourselves.
What do the legal eagles out there think?
What would a Judge think about this?
Even if they are too stupid/incompetent to update the list numbers it still should be provided on request. We can count out the slots ourselves.
What do the legal eagles out there think?
What would a Judge think about this?
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From the top floor: Dragonair's four-hundred-odd pilots will be slotted into the Cathay seniority system based upon a formula which will see all of their captains in the top half of the Cathay system, and their FO's in the second half.
Like F*** they will.
Just let em try.
Then they'll see blood on the streets.
All KA Pilot's should have their positions protected, BUT they ALL go on the bottom of our list on the exact day WE BOUGHT KA.
I'll be F***** if I'll let a KA Pilot have a higher priority ( through date of joining ) for staff travel, basings etc. Sorry but it ain't gunna happen.
What's next? We buy Oasis and all the x CX Captains get their old number back??????????? I don't think so Jimmy.
Just let em try.
Then they'll see blood on the streets.
All KA Pilot's should have their positions protected, BUT they ALL go on the bottom of our list on the exact day WE BOUGHT KA.
I'll be F***** if I'll let a KA Pilot have a higher priority ( through date of joining ) for staff travel, basings etc. Sorry but it ain't gunna happen.
What's next? We buy Oasis and all the x CX Captains get their old number back??????????? I don't think so Jimmy.
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ACMS- who owns the Cx seniority list, the pilots or the company? I suspect that unless you can show you have been disadvantaged by a merged list you'd have a hard time stopping it. Remember, the KA pilots are bringing their own aeroplanes to the group. An outsiders viewpoint.
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Actually, my friend, we came up with this solution in consutation with IFALPA, and through precident set by numerous IFALPA aligned airlines. I'm sure you'll get used to it. In the case where an airline purchases another airline which has not only its own crews and aircraft, but also airline specific routes, this is the accepted procedure for seniority merger.
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I can see some very sour KA FO's if this happens - their time to upgrade will be significantly lengthened whereas CX FO's should see the left seat quicker?
Also KA FO will have improved lifestyle if he gets to fly CX longhaul - not so for CX guy.....is my logic correct here..? Had some red wine seeing that it's the jolly season and all.
SO's are screwed anyway so I dont see much effect on them.
???
Also KA FO will have improved lifestyle if he gets to fly CX longhaul - not so for CX guy.....is my logic correct here..? Had some red wine seeing that it's the jolly season and all.
SO's are screwed anyway so I dont see much effect on them.
???
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Jerry Scribbler, your statement is worthy of John Wayne. That statement must come from the top floor of your Teutonic Castle, or perhaps something more tribal from your African days. Dream on.
Last edited by OldChinaHand; 24th Dec 2007 at 20:06.
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Merger
Jerry,
I wonder if USair and Ex-TWA share you view.
CX / KA was not a merger. CX bought KA. I think the best KA pilots can hope for is base, seat and equipment protection.
Not to open another can of worms, but how do you think ASL guys would respond to your proposal. I don't see a lot of differences "merging" their list with CX and a possible KA add-on to CX list.
That being said, the company will most likely do whatever they damn please.
Back to the eggnog (well spiked of course)
Merry christmas
Cider30
I wonder if USair and Ex-TWA share you view.
CX / KA was not a merger. CX bought KA. I think the best KA pilots can hope for is base, seat and equipment protection.
Not to open another can of worms, but how do you think ASL guys would respond to your proposal. I don't see a lot of differences "merging" their list with CX and a possible KA add-on to CX list.
That being said, the company will most likely do whatever they damn please.
Back to the eggnog (well spiked of course)
Merry christmas
Cider30
No disadvantage for me??????????
Let me see here.....................
Loss of Seniority for ALL CX Staff Travel
Loss of Seniority for Aircraft switching
Loss of Seniority for taking a Base
Loss of Seniority for becoming a Training Captain ( if I wanted to )
etc etc
Seniority is everything to Airline Pilot's, and you know it.
WE BOUGHT KA, not the other way around.
Let me see here.....................
Loss of Seniority for ALL CX Staff Travel
Loss of Seniority for Aircraft switching
Loss of Seniority for taking a Base
Loss of Seniority for becoming a Training Captain ( if I wanted to )
etc etc
Seniority is everything to Airline Pilot's, and you know it.
WE BOUGHT KA, not the other way around.