V Australia now live.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
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From: I go, therefore I am there!
More Questions on VB
I had heard that only the initial 777 intake will be from outside VB and after that they will promote from inside VB. Anyone else heard anything along these lines? Would this mean a single VB seniority list with 777 new joiners joining on the bottom.
If this is true then FOs might be "stuck" in the right seat for quite a while! If not, then the upgrade from right to left would otherwise expected to be quite quick as more aircraft arrive!
With stacks of EK and CX guys looking at this, getting a position might not be as easy as it sounds!
"Now where is that calculator to update that logbook?"
Cheers
If this is true then FOs might be "stuck" in the right seat for quite a while! If not, then the upgrade from right to left would otherwise expected to be quite quick as more aircraft arrive!
With stacks of EK and CX guys looking at this, getting a position might not be as easy as it sounds!
"Now where is that calculator to update that logbook?"
Cheers
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: asia
Anybody know the details of VBs visit to HK ?
185K unlikely as the new EBA gives a 737 skipper circa 180K ( plus O/T and callouts )
Anyone think they will be desperate enough to take 73 skippers with int'l experience ( not L/H )
185K unlikely as the new EBA gives a 737 skipper circa 180K ( plus O/T and callouts )
Anyone think they will be desperate enough to take 73 skippers with int'l experience ( not L/H )
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 254
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From: Hong Kong
Well hang on Amos....I'm not sure about Lowkoons other posts (and I do agree with you sentiment about some young experts wanting it all 'now') but I think he had a fine point in his post above.
Sanook, are you for real? "Let's not be delusional. Any company offering T & C from the eighties operating today would be facing financial ruin".
How did you work that little gem out? Pilots are a commodity, just like fuel. There's not enough fuel around so airlines have had to pay more for it. Some of these airlines are still making record profits (and paying their CEO's record wages).
There aren't enough pilots around so airlines will have to pay more, much more and also offer better lifestyles.
Some drivvel about markets having 'fundamentally changed' is just bollocks turned out by the likes of that Ryanair goose O'Leary.
It's basic economics 101 and that hasn't changed since cavemen ruled businesses.
Sanook, are you for real? "Let's not be delusional. Any company offering T & C from the eighties operating today would be facing financial ruin".
How did you work that little gem out? Pilots are a commodity, just like fuel. There's not enough fuel around so airlines have had to pay more for it. Some of these airlines are still making record profits (and paying their CEO's record wages).
There aren't enough pilots around so airlines will have to pay more, much more and also offer better lifestyles.
Some drivvel about markets having 'fundamentally changed' is just bollocks turned out by the likes of that Ryanair goose O'Leary.
It's basic economics 101 and that hasn't changed since cavemen ruled businesses.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 37
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From: South of Spain
will have no problems getting 777 pilots from EK/CX at lower wages just to be back home.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: asia
There aren't enough pilots around so airlines will have to pay more, much more and also offer better lifestyles
I keep hearing it, and actually believe it, but waiting for the " sign "
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 686
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From: .
Well if people would stop working on G days thereby bailing the company out of the shiite, reducing crew costs, and negating pressure that could be applied to the company to employ more pilots and thereby give a better lifestyle..... maybe you would see it sooner.
A -400 Captain worked a G day recently and was told he could DT straight back from the trip. Gets there only to find flight is full and he cant get on. Nice one Ralphy. Lesson learnt?
A -400 Captain worked a G day recently and was told he could DT straight back from the trip. Gets there only to find flight is full and he cant get on. Nice one Ralphy. Lesson learnt?
"V" ery tough
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
VB Pay Scale:
Skipper $169500
Overtime from 72 hours in a 28 day roster. (No real overtime being seen, time balancing in place, i.e roster displacement with no protection).
$1000 dollars callout for working on a day off, before tax, no day in lieu.
Approximately $10000 tax free allowances per year.
Word is for 777 operation, pay scales for Captain not that much more circa sub $180000 (package) + own type rating costs.
Conditions yet to be announced, External commands are for the first four aircraft only, remainder from current VB crew (plenty of L/H experienced wide body Captains at VB i.e ex-CX/EK/VA/etc).
If you are told, "This is a start up package and we will look after you at the next contract/eba", run for the hills, as this has been said before and reneged upon.
Buyer beware!
Skipper $169500
Overtime from 72 hours in a 28 day roster. (No real overtime being seen, time balancing in place, i.e roster displacement with no protection).
$1000 dollars callout for working on a day off, before tax, no day in lieu.
Approximately $10000 tax free allowances per year.
Word is for 777 operation, pay scales for Captain not that much more circa sub $180000 (package) + own type rating costs.
Conditions yet to be announced, External commands are for the first four aircraft only, remainder from current VB crew (plenty of L/H experienced wide body Captains at VB i.e ex-CX/EK/VA/etc).
If you are told, "This is a start up package and we will look after you at the next contract/eba", run for the hills, as this has been said before and reneged upon.
Buyer beware!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Harbour Dweller,
I understand that these sort of posts do require some form of credibility, without giving away too much, lets say I have a close friend in certain places. People I know with interviews planned at VAUS have been told that the pay will not be mind blowing and the training will have to be self funded! Good if you already have a 777 endorsement! Knowing many VB pilots and hence having an insight into the company culture at a V company, pilots are not very well treated, in more ways than one (pay and conditions). They always choose the cheapest possible solution to any problem, whether it be a rostering system that does not work (cheap computer rostering programmes), to crew meals and uniforms. Everything has to be cost neutral.
Time will tell whether I am right or I am wrong. But at the end of the day, J* widebody pay scales have set a standard in AUS that is now the bench mark for competitors and once again having an insight into V management they will do anything they can to keep their cost base to a minimum. I hope I am wrong. But I believe this 777 operation requires a package of at least $250000 minimum.
Don't forget you will also be based in SYD and if they offer contracts and you want to commute, say from BNE, I bet they will not provide staff travel on VB to facilitate your abilities to commute, and the staff travel system at VB is one of the worst and cheapest systems going around, it is not seniority based (its first in first served, ie a baggage handler has booked a flight before a Capt, the baggage handler travels first).
Hope this helps.
I understand that these sort of posts do require some form of credibility, without giving away too much, lets say I have a close friend in certain places. People I know with interviews planned at VAUS have been told that the pay will not be mind blowing and the training will have to be self funded! Good if you already have a 777 endorsement! Knowing many VB pilots and hence having an insight into the company culture at a V company, pilots are not very well treated, in more ways than one (pay and conditions). They always choose the cheapest possible solution to any problem, whether it be a rostering system that does not work (cheap computer rostering programmes), to crew meals and uniforms. Everything has to be cost neutral.
Time will tell whether I am right or I am wrong. But at the end of the day, J* widebody pay scales have set a standard in AUS that is now the bench mark for competitors and once again having an insight into V management they will do anything they can to keep their cost base to a minimum. I hope I am wrong. But I believe this 777 operation requires a package of at least $250000 minimum.
Don't forget you will also be based in SYD and if they offer contracts and you want to commute, say from BNE, I bet they will not provide staff travel on VB to facilitate your abilities to commute, and the staff travel system at VB is one of the worst and cheapest systems going around, it is not seniority based (its first in first served, ie a baggage handler has booked a flight before a Capt, the baggage handler travels first).
Hope this helps.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 361
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
dirty deeds,
Thanks for your reply.
It is not a very bright picture that you are painting. I can see why Virgin Blue is having trouble crewing domestic flights.
V Australia has set the experience benchmark pretty high. They are obviously wanting to attract quality B777 pilots with good experience levels. That level can only be achieved with an attractive package, Money + lifestyle.
Time will tell but if Virgin managers think they will attract a stampede of guys for that package they had better think again.
That deafening silence will be the sound of no one knocking on their door.
HD
Thanks for your reply.
It is not a very bright picture that you are painting. I can see why Virgin Blue is having trouble crewing domestic flights.
V Australia has set the experience benchmark pretty high. They are obviously wanting to attract quality B777 pilots with good experience levels. That level can only be achieved with an attractive package, Money + lifestyle.
Time will tell but if Virgin managers think they will attract a stampede of guys for that package they had better think again.
That deafening silence will be the sound of no one knocking on their door.
HD
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
No worries HD,
I do not want to intentionally paint such a bad picture, just relaying the facts and its about time we all started to cover each others backs and provide good information so people can make an educated and informed decision about where their working future lies. Especially in this current, fast approaching world pilot shortage.
Regards
DD
PS. Get hold of the DEC issue of the Australian Aviation Magazine, pages 89-92 has some great articles about Australia's pilot shortages.
I do not want to intentionally paint such a bad picture, just relaying the facts and its about time we all started to cover each others backs and provide good information so people can make an educated and informed decision about where their working future lies. Especially in this current, fast approaching world pilot shortage.
Regards
DD
PS. Get hold of the DEC issue of the Australian Aviation Magazine, pages 89-92 has some great articles about Australia's pilot shortages.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
PS. Get hold of the DEC issue of the Australian Aviation Magazine, pages 89-92 has some great articles about Australia's pilot shortages.
Once you read it, could you share the info with us? Not all have access to the magazine, I guess.
Thanks
Once you read it, could you share the info with us? Not all have access to the magazine, I guess.
Thanks