ASL Contract out this week
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ASL Contract out this week
A new ASL contract will be offered this week. Also a payrise will be enforced upon the pilot body, this week, and see by management as an improvement in our contracts so there is little to we can do. Management have been heard to say that 'time is running out' and things are going to happen.
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Good evening,
Relax. Let's not forget that CX cannot impose a change to your contract without your consent. However, if they want to impose a pay rise, let them bring it on. But that's it, only a pay rise.
Let them rant and rave about ASL, but remember they are the one's that created the problem. So let them solve it, and at their expense. If they want to dissolve ASL, great! Then those pilots will get an increase in pay and benefits as they join the pax fleet. Now, who wouldn't want that?
Remember the term, "market forces". CX used it extensively in the down times. Ironically, it is a term which they now never seem to use.
They are hogtied by the very COS that they imposed on us over the years. Just do your job, and sit back and enjoy the ride.
Relax. Let's not forget that CX cannot impose a change to your contract without your consent. However, if they want to impose a pay rise, let them bring it on. But that's it, only a pay rise.
Let them rant and rave about ASL, but remember they are the one's that created the problem. So let them solve it, and at their expense. If they want to dissolve ASL, great! Then those pilots will get an increase in pay and benefits as they join the pax fleet. Now, who wouldn't want that?
Remember the term, "market forces". CX used it extensively in the down times. Ironically, it is a term which they now never seem to use.
They are hogtied by the very COS that they imposed on us over the years. Just do your job, and sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Westcoast,
Just remember that if ASL disappears so too does the freightrer flying agreement. Company can then crew freighter with pax fleet pilots and I believe that you won't be able to say no. Company can now crew freighter no crewing problem and less crews (recruitment?) needed.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Just remember that if ASL disappears so too does the freightrer flying agreement. Company can then crew freighter with pax fleet pilots and I believe that you won't be able to say no. Company can now crew freighter no crewing problem and less crews (recruitment?) needed.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Backspace, I believe you are right, but wasn't the origin of the FCA to do with the set-up of ASL?
As I understand it, to avoid potential CRM moments between the ASL bods and those who were vehemently opposed to a cheap freight operation, the latter were given the option not to fly the freighter. Now years down the line we are talking about crew levels to keep the freighter operation running. To that end, if my history is correct (before my time) the dissolution of ASL effectively negates the original function of the agreement.
As I understand it, to avoid potential CRM moments between the ASL bods and those who were vehemently opposed to a cheap freight operation, the latter were given the option not to fly the freighter. Now years down the line we are talking about crew levels to keep the freighter operation running. To that end, if my history is correct (before my time) the dissolution of ASL effectively negates the original function of the agreement.
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ASL and the FACA
The FACA was created so we wouldn't have to fly with any ASL scabs (is that tautological?) By CX backdooring and putting them at the bottom of the seniority list there is no longer a FACA.
Interesting question...what is a seniority list? It implies that position is dependent on time in CX. So by that interpretation these 'gentlemen', and I use that word generously, will be at SO or FO level. Somehow though my pragmatic view of the world suggests CX will find a way to keep them as Captains and on their bases!
They had their chance to join in 2000. They chose not to as they wanted a quick command ahead of their cx 'peers'. Now they want to join CX and stay in rank - lucky they work for a company that will make their wishes come true!
Interesting question...what is a seniority list? It implies that position is dependent on time in CX. So by that interpretation these 'gentlemen', and I use that word generously, will be at SO or FO level. Somehow though my pragmatic view of the world suggests CX will find a way to keep them as Captains and on their bases!
They had their chance to join in 2000. They chose not to as they wanted a quick command ahead of their cx 'peers'. Now they want to join CX and stay in rank - lucky they work for a company that will make their wishes come true!
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Well said NC; as you and I have something of an axe to grind with the creation of ASL, particularly with regard to career progression, it would be tempting to say that by calling them sc*bs (debatable) and saying "F
ck 'em" we are demonstrating, at best, churlish self-interest, but, hey, f@ck 'em anyway...
There are several individuals on the LON based operation who are currently working beyond 60 as I write. The individuals concerned have threatened to sue the company if they are "retired" as a result of ageism..and of course the company has agreed to it ..imagine if a so called mainline pilot had tried the same stunt..the inequality of the whole thing beggars belief.. nothing new, of course, with our munificent empoyers.. ASL employees who sign over in the future should of course join at the back of the list, behind the most recent joining S/O if they are so keen to stay on, and take the bat along with everybody else...followed closely by the ball of course....and they can shove their check and trainers up their
ck 'em" we are demonstrating, at best, churlish self-interest, but, hey, f@ck 'em anyway...There are several individuals on the LON based operation who are currently working beyond 60 as I write. The individuals concerned have threatened to sue the company if they are "retired" as a result of ageism..and of course the company has agreed to it ..imagine if a so called mainline pilot had tried the same stunt..the inequality of the whole thing beggars belief.. nothing new, of course, with our munificent empoyers.. ASL employees who sign over in the future should of course join at the back of the list, behind the most recent joining S/O if they are so keen to stay on, and take the bat along with everybody else...followed closely by the ball of course....and they can shove their check and trainers up their
Last edited by jacobus; 2nd Oct 2007 at 09:24.
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Oh well said boys! lets keep calling each others scabs shall we?
I shall leave more balanced readers to draw their conclusions about your state of mind NC and Jacobus when you invoke such language. I am ashamed of the pair of you. You are wonderful advertisements for our profession.
NC you are wrong that the 'gentlemen' you refer to were seeking a quick command. Most of them had a command.
Jacobus you are wrong about the extendees on the LON base. Quite clearly you know little about employment law. If any LON pilot was terminated due to his race, religion or sexual orientation they would indeed be able to 'sue' as you call it ( actually take the case to an Industrial Tribunal ). However, in the case of age discrimination the UK legislation specifically excludes any such case by those employed on foreign registered aircraft or vessels.
It is fair to assume CX legal department and management are well aware of this.
Age discrimation is as unacceptable as racial, gender or any such other other discrimination. I have no idea what your race, religion or sexual orientation is but I am pretty confident one day you will be a few years older than you are today - I hope you then do not have the misfortune to meet such bigoted unpleasant peoples as yourselves.
...dont call me raincoat !!
I shall leave more balanced readers to draw their conclusions about your state of mind NC and Jacobus when you invoke such language. I am ashamed of the pair of you. You are wonderful advertisements for our profession.
NC you are wrong that the 'gentlemen' you refer to were seeking a quick command. Most of them had a command.
Jacobus you are wrong about the extendees on the LON base. Quite clearly you know little about employment law. If any LON pilot was terminated due to his race, religion or sexual orientation they would indeed be able to 'sue' as you call it ( actually take the case to an Industrial Tribunal ). However, in the case of age discrimination the UK legislation specifically excludes any such case by those employed on foreign registered aircraft or vessels.
It is fair to assume CX legal department and management are well aware of this.
Age discrimation is as unacceptable as racial, gender or any such other other discrimination. I have no idea what your race, religion or sexual orientation is but I am pretty confident one day you will be a few years older than you are today - I hope you then do not have the misfortune to meet such bigoted unpleasant peoples as yourselves.
...dont call me raincoat !!
nicknakadashi,
What CX knows about the Discrimination Laws is very likely the same as BALPA and the AOA. Where it says operating a foreign registered aircraft hardly covers SBY, Available, Distance Learning (Do the first weeks of your conversion from CD's) and pre and postflight duties. They have already lost one case where a UK based pilot was found to be under UK law.
Do you think they want another?
What CX knows about the Discrimination Laws is very likely the same as BALPA and the AOA. Where it says operating a foreign registered aircraft hardly covers SBY, Available, Distance Learning (Do the first weeks of your conversion from CD's) and pre and postflight duties. They have already lost one case where a UK based pilot was found to be under UK law.
Do you think they want another?
nicknakadashi: scab seems a pretty appropriate description of those people.
they knew what they were doing and the company helped them.
So don't bull us ok
you can run, but you can't hide.
they knew what they were doing and the company helped them.
So don't bull
us okyou can run, but you can't hide.
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Alllll righty then,
Why should we support you when you were still taking upgrades and conversions?
You were leaving perfectly good jet jobs to come here and scab!
You don't even have a strong enough union to take any action yourselves.
It was all Nigel/Ted/Murray/<insert appropriate name>'s fault
Excellent, that's that all out of the way. Move along nothing to see.
Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand...
Why should we support you when you were still taking upgrades and conversions?
You were leaving perfectly good jet jobs to come here and scab!
You don't even have a strong enough union to take any action yourselves.
It was all Nigel/Ted/Murray/<insert appropriate name>'s fault
Excellent, that's that all out of the way. Move along nothing to see.
Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand...
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Niknak...
That is incorrect! Most who had a command by Jan 2000 did sign over and it was only those looking for an early command and those 50+ that didn't sign. Now those that got their command after 2000 are the most vocal to retain their seniority but too bad for them!
NC you are wrong that the 'gentlemen' you refer to were seeking a quick command. Most of them had a command.
