Oct 10th and the New AFTL's
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Well, with the numbers of people starting to look elsewhere, even die hard Cathay career pilots, I guess it is only a matter of time before The Management are finally recognised from the REAL Swire management to be creating a biblically proportioned mess of an airline, all inconveniently located in the ever increasingly polluted air of one of the world's most overpriced cities. Frankly I am amazed that Swire, with all their experience, haven't already cottoned on....but then arrogance can confuse the smartest of people.
Unlike the past, there are now better options out there, particularly if you are prepared to move, and in other parts of the world blue sky and stars really do exist....it never ceases to amaze me how many local pilots haven't seen stars....
It's a shame, really, because Cathay should...and could....be the best Airline in the world to work for, but the atmosphere within this company is becoming increasingly caustic and unhealthy. If The Management truly are proud of what they have done to this once proud airline then so be it. I think the original founders would be mortified.
Back to the resume...
Unlike the past, there are now better options out there, particularly if you are prepared to move, and in other parts of the world blue sky and stars really do exist....it never ceases to amaze me how many local pilots haven't seen stars....
It's a shame, really, because Cathay should...and could....be the best Airline in the world to work for, but the atmosphere within this company is becoming increasingly caustic and unhealthy. If The Management truly are proud of what they have done to this once proud airline then so be it. I think the original founders would be mortified.
Back to the resume...
Cool as a moosp
Join Date: Aug 2001
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We've done 3 crew -400 to Europe as has been mentioned before here. I did a FRA and when we got to the hotel the Captain went into the coffee shop to see a colleague. When he came back to the lobby he reported, "He said he thought I had been shot down." I felt similarly, but must have lost my silk somewhere.
Of course we can do it. But it will again erode the safety margins that were built into the FTLs in the past. Just this one change will not cause an accident, but these continual safety erosions add up, to the incidents, and then the accident.
Thankfully the DFO that said that Cathay can tolerate a hull loss is not longer with us.
When Mr Patrick Tsai, an exceedingly well respected businessman in Hong Kong, was a director of CX and as the only Chinese executive director at that time our compradore to Beijing, he was also the mentor of Rod Eddington. He advised Rod, "Do not reach for the poison dollar."
You can understand that the present management is continually reaching for that last 5%, that last squeeze of the system to get the maximum dollar out of it. Such management will always end in tears, usually not for the managers, but for the constituents for which their company provided jobs, service and trust.
Of course we can do it. But it will again erode the safety margins that were built into the FTLs in the past. Just this one change will not cause an accident, but these continual safety erosions add up, to the incidents, and then the accident.
Thankfully the DFO that said that Cathay can tolerate a hull loss is not longer with us.
When Mr Patrick Tsai, an exceedingly well respected businessman in Hong Kong, was a director of CX and as the only Chinese executive director at that time our compradore to Beijing, he was also the mentor of Rod Eddington. He advised Rod, "Do not reach for the poison dollar."
You can understand that the present management is continually reaching for that last 5%, that last squeeze of the system to get the maximum dollar out of it. Such management will always end in tears, usually not for the managers, but for the constituents for which their company provided jobs, service and trust.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Lost in the debate is the fact that a move to 3-man long haul will result in a further serious delay to upgrades. By needing less crew....they need less upgrades. Another blow to the FO/SO career potential.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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No, No, No
It seems we have resumed that old habit of shooting ourselves in the foot again. The pilot reps on the joint CAD AFTL committee have "agreed in principle to extending the 3 man AFTL to 14 hours". They are now just arguing the conditions that it can be used under. I thought the pilot reps were there so that the pilot body could be consulted??? Funny, I don't remember being consulted. 
This is not an industrial matter in my opinion, it is flight safety issue. No amount of money is going to make this acceptable or safe. The three man flights such as to Australia and NZ are already the most tiring flights we do. Now they want us to tack a few more hours on and cross a bunch of time zones as well. Imagine the fourth sector on a "W" to Europe with a three man crew. It's no wonder they slipped the controlled rest paragraph into vol 2/2. This must be the exceptional circumstances they refer to except it will not be the exception but the norm to have someone sleeping in the seat.
This is just the CX management solution for screwing up the manning so badly. Can't they see that this will only make more people leave.
What can we do?
(1) email or telephone the AOA and say no way.
(2) Push the AOA to mount a legal challenge against the CAD over any changes and force them to justify any changes in court.
(3) If all else fails go public and through the media bring pressure on the CAD. BA and QF do 4 crew to Europe, why are we any less tired? From what I hear, the operators who do three crew have much longer slips in between but in my opinion, that is still not good enough.
NO NO NO
This is not an industrial matter in my opinion, it is flight safety issue. No amount of money is going to make this acceptable or safe. The three man flights such as to Australia and NZ are already the most tiring flights we do. Now they want us to tack a few more hours on and cross a bunch of time zones as well. Imagine the fourth sector on a "W" to Europe with a three man crew. It's no wonder they slipped the controlled rest paragraph into vol 2/2. This must be the exceptional circumstances they refer to except it will not be the exception but the norm to have someone sleeping in the seat.
This is just the CX management solution for screwing up the manning so badly. Can't they see that this will only make more people leave.
What can we do?
(1) email or telephone the AOA and say no way.
(2) Push the AOA to mount a legal challenge against the CAD over any changes and force them to justify any changes in court.
(3) If all else fails go public and through the media bring pressure on the CAD. BA and QF do 4 crew to Europe, why are we any less tired? From what I hear, the operators who do three crew have much longer slips in between but in my opinion, that is still not good enough.
NO NO NO
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: HEREANDTHERE
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facts
Ba fly three crew only when duty 12.5 hours or less
then its two captains one first officer
then they get 48 hrs off down route
they only do this on a few sectors
Most are 4 man
Two captains and two first officers.
Hardly the same operation
then its two captains one first officer
then they get 48 hrs off down route
they only do this on a few sectors
Most are 4 man
Two captains and two first officers.
Hardly the same operation
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong K ong
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Media Here We Come
MEDIA is the only way.
Do any of u know any channels to get into the media.
The public would love to know about an ealier post about all crew falling asleep behind the wheel. Only to be woken by the alarm.
God helps us when the Wx is **** & fuel critical & technical problems. Or an enroute failure. When we are over the 'legal driving limit' due to lack of sleep. Medical fact (Crews News infact)
The public should be warned ...
PW this is another rescue attement for your prefect crewing plan.
Boy you are a clever chap
Do any of u know any channels to get into the media.
The public would love to know about an ealier post about all crew falling asleep behind the wheel. Only to be woken by the alarm.
God helps us when the Wx is **** & fuel critical & technical problems. Or an enroute failure. When we are over the 'legal driving limit' due to lack of sleep. Medical fact (Crews News infact)
The public should be warned ...
PW this is another rescue attement for your prefect crewing plan.
Boy you are a clever chap
