Joining Dragonair? This is how it is now
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: flagrant arbour
employment restrictions
Want more good news...CX refuses to process applications from KA pilots, as it is.. "not in their interest to poach from KA". Thus KA pilots have no status or seniority recognition with CX, nor are they allowed to apply for jobs there - Does this constitute discrimination? So much for CX's Equal Opportunity Employer status!
This ridiculous rationale makes even less sense, not just because CX owns and directly controls KA, but they are employing chaps for Airbus positions who are not Airbus endorsed, many with zero jet time (ex-mil turboprop).
Can someone pls explain how it is not in the interest of CX to employ someone (ie. a KA pilot) who is type rated, with HK licence and valuable China flying experience from a known high quality source, very much in line with their own training system and culture? Bit of a no brainer I would think. Training cost savings significant, no training risk etc. Perhaps they're worried the KA guys won't wear their hats around the airport?
I know KA are short of pilots, however, why not promote FO new joiner employment through KA then to CX mainline? A far better option than 3yrs as an SO. The training timeframe is far shorter (thus cheaper) at KA and it ensures valuable hands on experience is gained quickly via the multiple sector short-hall nature, hence guys will be better equipped for the Capt upgrade ($ savings again).
Are CX and KA working together as the propaganda machine would have us believe, or not? Why has there been no direction on future plans for Pilot integration? Management need to stop treating us like mushrooms.... where's the professional courtesy and morale consideration? A token payrise (if it ever happens) will not be enough to keep many guys here. An improved, fair and equitable career path is what is needed.
Is there anyone with any kind of intelligence and vision driving this ship?
This ridiculous rationale makes even less sense, not just because CX owns and directly controls KA, but they are employing chaps for Airbus positions who are not Airbus endorsed, many with zero jet time (ex-mil turboprop).
Can someone pls explain how it is not in the interest of CX to employ someone (ie. a KA pilot) who is type rated, with HK licence and valuable China flying experience from a known high quality source, very much in line with their own training system and culture? Bit of a no brainer I would think. Training cost savings significant, no training risk etc. Perhaps they're worried the KA guys won't wear their hats around the airport?
I know KA are short of pilots, however, why not promote FO new joiner employment through KA then to CX mainline? A far better option than 3yrs as an SO. The training timeframe is far shorter (thus cheaper) at KA and it ensures valuable hands on experience is gained quickly via the multiple sector short-hall nature, hence guys will be better equipped for the Capt upgrade ($ savings again).
Are CX and KA working together as the propaganda machine would have us believe, or not? Why has there been no direction on future plans for Pilot integration? Management need to stop treating us like mushrooms.... where's the professional courtesy and morale consideration? A token payrise (if it ever happens) will not be enough to keep many guys here. An improved, fair and equitable career path is what is needed.
Is there anyone with any kind of intelligence and vision driving this ship?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Likes: 9
From: Blighty
There was a 'no poaching' agreement in place before the buyout, so there is even lees liklihood of swapping over now. Both are short of pilots, very short it seems. Recruitment and training resources need to be concentrated on new joiners to the group.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
From: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
Anecdotal from ftc side Australia 2. But think about it. Now that we are part of the group, and they are offering direct entry fo positions, rather than losing 1 airbus pilot from the group completely, they would be stupid not to offer a basing once you resign, not before.... They will certainly chat to you. Theres a free bus that takes you over there every 15 minutes. If you want to leave, and you are interested in a direct entry fo slot, you would be mad not to use it.... They will chat to you, no question. Actually if the DPA got 5 guys a day to get thier log book stamped, and then jumped on the shuttle bus wearing a tie, would be a good laugh... 
Remember they are taking turboprop drivers for these direct entry fo slots.... Worth a shot if you want it.
Remember they are taking turboprop drivers for these direct entry fo slots.... Worth a shot if you want it.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Northern CND
Does anyone know how short KA is of pilots, and the guys that are making it on what type of experience do they have.
I meet all there req listed in there ad in Flight Int but just and I do not have the type rating. Just wondering if I have a hope in hell for and interview.
mulleye
I meet all there req listed in there ad in Flight Int but just and I do not have the type rating. Just wondering if I have a hope in hell for and interview.
mulleye
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Asia
IS KA still hiring lately? Do they hire non rated on the AB fleet based in HKG?
What are the terms and conditions? What are the rumours about integration with CX in the future? Will that affect a upgrade within KA?
Is it possible to join KA on the Boeing then switch to Airbus and keep seniority?
What is the training like and the overal atmosphere? I could not read too many positive things on pprune is this really the case?
Thanks for the input Dragons
Sky
IF you want PM me with more info! :-)
What are the terms and conditions? What are the rumours about integration with CX in the future? Will that affect a upgrade within KA?
Is it possible to join KA on the Boeing then switch to Airbus and keep seniority?
What is the training like and the overal atmosphere? I could not read too many positive things on pprune is this really the case?
Thanks for the input Dragons
Sky
IF you want PM me with more info! :-)
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
From: York International
Its True
Hi Sky, Like JB says we're not making it up but of course everyone has a different perspective.
Prior ratings not needed for bus or boeing and big plus here is no bond.
Yes seniority is common so join on boeing and shift across or vice versa.
Who knows about CX integration? It may well affect future upgrade as until now KA has been quicker than CX. Maybe better to join CX and get on their seniority right from the start. But consensus is shifting to CX and/or KA not being the long term option it once was.
Training is good, general atmosphere not so good but that is in relations between management and workers. On the line a good bunch of guys.
If you've got a good job now then don't bother. If you want to upgrade to heavy metal then give it a go.
Prior ratings not needed for bus or boeing and big plus here is no bond.
Yes seniority is common so join on boeing and shift across or vice versa.
Who knows about CX integration? It may well affect future upgrade as until now KA has been quicker than CX. Maybe better to join CX and get on their seniority right from the start. But consensus is shifting to CX and/or KA not being the long term option it once was.
Training is good, general atmosphere not so good but that is in relations between management and workers. On the line a good bunch of guys.
If you've got a good job now then don't bother. If you want to upgrade to heavy metal then give it a go.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: UK
Dragonair is not a career move. It can only be looked at short term to get a rating or build a few hours. It is a chinese operation and the personnel management have no respect for expats. You will not get a pension as any career would normally provide. It is also nowadays poorly paid for the cost of living and especially housing in Hong Kong. Gone are the days of fat salaries where you could save a bit.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: cheshire
Guys I have just had an offer to join on the classic out of Man. I'm currently an Fo on 777 with BA out of LHR/LGW and my whole reason for applying was that I'm fed up of the commute 4-6 times a month ( apparently we are the worlds hardest working longhaul company at 900 hrs a year). The management talk about honesty and integrity but would sooner sell their mums than help you. Anyway the thought of going to work a couple of times a month to the airport 10 mins away from home then having about a week off when I get home rather than the odd couple of days here and there and going East West with 8hr time changes each way sounded perfect. However grass I am finding out always seems greener.
I distinctly told them in the interview the reason I was looking for a move was because I am fed up with the commute and if I'm going to leave it has to be for the right job. So they offer me the classic which I believe is going to end up in HK doing local flying and the crews are going to be positioned out from Man. I wonder if they actually listened to a word I said. I guess they expect me to give up a 3hr commute to work in favour of a 14hr one. When I basically wrote back I got a reply to explain the situation and calm my fears. It said that the classics would eventually go to HK but MOST of the crews would stay in Man and that there MAY be some positioning to HK but on company or commercial airlines, and that I would be able to bid onto the 400 after a two year type freeze. So in reality I take itsome of the crews will end up in HK permanantly, there will definately be positioning to HK (oh on company or commercial a/c, were they under the impression that i thought I'd be paying for it myself!!) and then I can bid to go to the 400 obviously at the bottom of the pile behind everyone else. Oh and time to command 3-5 years but I can tell from the posts thats not going to be the case.
Anyway I've politely declined, a case of grass seems greener as I say. I do understand that sometimes the time off at home would be considerable and that would be worth its weight in gold to me as I currently find myself recovering from one trip only to get ready for the next but I'm not prepared to give up what I've got for that deal.
I guess people would agree with me I'm better off where I am... yes?
I think what I read earlier is right people aren't moving cos its just as pants everywhere else. Jeese I wish I'd never left Thomas Cook now. Anyone who is thinking of a move think long and hard cos in virtually every case once you've gone you can't go back and slot nicely where you were before. BA told me a pack of lies about pensions and time off cos they knew once they'd got me I couldn't go back unless I wanted to go to the back of the que again and start again on the seniority list I'd just left.
Why did I get into this industry again???
I distinctly told them in the interview the reason I was looking for a move was because I am fed up with the commute and if I'm going to leave it has to be for the right job. So they offer me the classic which I believe is going to end up in HK doing local flying and the crews are going to be positioned out from Man. I wonder if they actually listened to a word I said. I guess they expect me to give up a 3hr commute to work in favour of a 14hr one. When I basically wrote back I got a reply to explain the situation and calm my fears. It said that the classics would eventually go to HK but MOST of the crews would stay in Man and that there MAY be some positioning to HK but on company or commercial airlines, and that I would be able to bid onto the 400 after a two year type freeze. So in reality I take itsome of the crews will end up in HK permanantly, there will definately be positioning to HK (oh on company or commercial a/c, were they under the impression that i thought I'd be paying for it myself!!) and then I can bid to go to the 400 obviously at the bottom of the pile behind everyone else. Oh and time to command 3-5 years but I can tell from the posts thats not going to be the case.
Anyway I've politely declined, a case of grass seems greener as I say. I do understand that sometimes the time off at home would be considerable and that would be worth its weight in gold to me as I currently find myself recovering from one trip only to get ready for the next but I'm not prepared to give up what I've got for that deal.
I guess people would agree with me I'm better off where I am... yes?
I think what I read earlier is right people aren't moving cos its just as pants everywhere else. Jeese I wish I'd never left Thomas Cook now. Anyone who is thinking of a move think long and hard cos in virtually every case once you've gone you can't go back and slot nicely where you were before. BA told me a pack of lies about pensions and time off cos they knew once they'd got me I couldn't go back unless I wanted to go to the back of the que again and start again on the seniority list I'd just left.
Why did I get into this industry again???
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Scubes!
I think you made the right decision. I have been with KA for a few years now and it is just getting out of control. No one can tell you what is going to happen to the 747s. Actually their 3 year plan that they presented last year was shorter than this post...No aircrafts on order either.
I can to 90 percent say that you are better of in BA. If you check with our guys in EU they will tell you that they sometimes have to pick up flights out of AMS and other places...on their own cost. (Keep in mind that it is sometimes easier for the guys as it might be closer to home.)
Out GMO is now trying to get a deal with DPA on this. If this happens you would ending up commuting on your own cost in EU.
Anyway I am pretty sure you did the right thing!
I think you made the right decision. I have been with KA for a few years now and it is just getting out of control. No one can tell you what is going to happen to the 747s. Actually their 3 year plan that they presented last year was shorter than this post...No aircrafts on order either.
I can to 90 percent say that you are better of in BA. If you check with our guys in EU they will tell you that they sometimes have to pick up flights out of AMS and other places...on their own cost. (Keep in mind that it is sometimes easier for the guys as it might be closer to home.)
Out GMO is now trying to get a deal with DPA on this. If this happens you would ending up commuting on your own cost in EU.
Anyway I am pretty sure you did the right thing!