Cat "A,B,C and D" officers
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Daimantina
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cat "A,B,C and D" officers
Hi all.
Was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the officer classification system?
How is it assessed and what sort of implications are involved in being part of a catagory??
Does assesment start from DOJ???
Cheers.
Was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the officer classification system?
How is it assessed and what sort of implications are involved in being part of a catagory??
Does assesment start from DOJ???
Cheers.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Classification ?
Well..
Cat A : Suitable for command, awaiting command course
Cat B : Not suitable for command at this time. No set guidelines on re-assessment.
Cat C : Not sure on this one.......
Cat D : Never gonna get command, might as well move on.
There are also quasi assessments that do not result in a Category being applied. A pilot goes in and asks to be assessed and is told, " I think you should wait a year !" So you are in the penalty box with no assessment and no idea when you will be assessed ! You also do not register on the paper work as a Cat B. This means that the actual numbers of First Officers being held back from command is much higher than indicated by actual number of lilots Cat B'd.
Clear as mud !
FG
Cat A : Suitable for command, awaiting command course
Cat B : Not suitable for command at this time. No set guidelines on re-assessment.
Cat C : Not sure on this one.......
Cat D : Never gonna get command, might as well move on.
There are also quasi assessments that do not result in a Category being applied. A pilot goes in and asks to be assessed and is told, " I think you should wait a year !" So you are in the penalty box with no assessment and no idea when you will be assessed ! You also do not register on the paper work as a Cat B. This means that the actual numbers of First Officers being held back from command is much higher than indicated by actual number of lilots Cat B'd.
Clear as mud !
FG
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cat B,
Not yet suitable for Command Training (to be considered for reassessment after a specified period)
Typical example...not ready for command (poor PC/Line Check)
Cat C,
Not yet suitable for Further Command Training
Typical example...Failed command course
Cat D1,
Not Suitable for Command Training
(no further assessments to be made)
Cat D2,
Downgraded to F/O from Captain
To remain F/O until considered suitable for retraining
Assessments start when your seniority places you close to command potential. This can be very early if you volunteer for a freighter command.
Not yet suitable for Command Training (to be considered for reassessment after a specified period)
Typical example...not ready for command (poor PC/Line Check)
Cat C,
Not yet suitable for Further Command Training
Typical example...Failed command course
Cat D1,
Not Suitable for Command Training
(no further assessments to be made)
Cat D2,
Downgraded to F/O from Captain
To remain F/O until considered suitable for retraining
Assessments start when your seniority places you close to command potential. This can be very early if you volunteer for a freighter command.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A,B,C,D, upgrade category.
This system of pilot upgrade also applies to an ab-initio pilot's progress through CX's pilot rank. They actually start out at D then progress to the A category.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do grades affect pay?
Separate question; how significant is the pay differrence when considering upgrading in a freighter, vs. moving to pax and working up through the rank there?
Separate question; how significant is the pay differrence when considering upgrading in a freighter, vs. moving to pax and working up through the rank there?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ball Park
Aprox 30% less for 20 - 25 % more work. You are away from Home more and make less !!
Yes grades affect pay. if you are Cat B'd or Cat C'd you loose several years at command pay. If you are Cat D'd you never make Captain and therefore you make less !!
FG
Yes grades affect pay. if you are Cat B'd or Cat C'd you loose several years at command pay. If you are Cat D'd you never make Captain and therefore you make less !!
FG
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FG,
Thanks for the reply. I'm on the outside looking in, very interested in everything I can learn about the company, of course.
I gather the freight operation has more flexibility (is potential a better word) for a US basing...a plus for a divorced dad who would strongly prefer to be a little closer to his kids for visitation.
For a DEFO or DESO, if one is able to get a US basing out of say, LAX, what kind of ballpark time home/away might one expect? Is this a constant...or is it an evolving thing with increasing numbers of aircraft, routes, etc?
Are most based pilots living at their base, or commuting...and how is this affected by reserve duties?
Thanks for the reply. I'm on the outside looking in, very interested in everything I can learn about the company, of course.
I gather the freight operation has more flexibility (is potential a better word) for a US basing...a plus for a divorced dad who would strongly prefer to be a little closer to his kids for visitation.
For a DEFO or DESO, if one is able to get a US basing out of say, LAX, what kind of ballpark time home/away might one expect? Is this a constant...or is it an evolving thing with increasing numbers of aircraft, routes, etc?
Are most based pilots living at their base, or commuting...and how is this affected by reserve duties?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Change for the sake
Guppy:
There is nothing like change at BBS (big brush stroke) What is good today roster wise might not be so tomorrow.
The freighter at the moment is under staffed and getting worse. The recent UPS contract has drawn a few FOs away and more to go I am sure. Not record numbers but more than BBS is used to. As a result the DEFO N American based will be away 15-18 days. The Captains right now are averaging 16-18 days a month away with some months over 20 days away. They seem to take it in turns to hit you and then lay off so not always 20 days away. You cannot be based in the US as a DESO. Minimum 5 years in Hong Kong. You could commute some have before. hard on ya though. If it was only once per month or less than doable.
With visitation etc. if having control over your days off (ie when you get them) is important then BBS is not so good for you. We have very little control over our roster. As a based FO you can do some swaps but will have limited swap options.
Most FOs are near there base. About half are commuters. It can be a pain when you have reserve and then a three day trip one off, and then regional, two off and then long haul so commting is a tough option.
However there are good months as well.
not sure if that helps you !!
Best of luck !
FG
There is nothing like change at BBS (big brush stroke) What is good today roster wise might not be so tomorrow.
The freighter at the moment is under staffed and getting worse. The recent UPS contract has drawn a few FOs away and more to go I am sure. Not record numbers but more than BBS is used to. As a result the DEFO N American based will be away 15-18 days. The Captains right now are averaging 16-18 days a month away with some months over 20 days away. They seem to take it in turns to hit you and then lay off so not always 20 days away. You cannot be based in the US as a DESO. Minimum 5 years in Hong Kong. You could commute some have before. hard on ya though. If it was only once per month or less than doable.
With visitation etc. if having control over your days off (ie when you get them) is important then BBS is not so good for you. We have very little control over our roster. As a based FO you can do some swaps but will have limited swap options.
Most FOs are near there base. About half are commuters. It can be a pain when you have reserve and then a three day trip one off, and then regional, two off and then long haul so commting is a tough option.
However there are good months as well.
not sure if that helps you !!
Best of luck !
FG
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good information, thank you. On reserve the commuters fly in and sit in a hotel, or do most chance being able to catch a flight to their base if they're called?
Clearly commuting back to the States for visits won't work on that kind of a schedule (can't bring the kids with me; wish I could)...that could be a dealbreaker...kids need dad on a regular basis.
I'm wondering about the potential for a DEFO to live somewhere like Phoenix and sit reserve for LAX from there. From reading the various posts here, I gather that CX really wants to know that an employee is committed to the company regardless of the offer, and that an employee is ready and willing to move to HK. I understand that, and appreciate the needs of an employer...how much lattitude or potential for assignment might one have if one prefers a base such as LAX?
Again, thanks for your replies.
Clearly commuting back to the States for visits won't work on that kind of a schedule (can't bring the kids with me; wish I could)...that could be a dealbreaker...kids need dad on a regular basis.
I'm wondering about the potential for a DEFO to live somewhere like Phoenix and sit reserve for LAX from there. From reading the various posts here, I gather that CX really wants to know that an employee is committed to the company regardless of the offer, and that an employee is ready and willing to move to HK. I understand that, and appreciate the needs of an employer...how much lattitude or potential for assignment might one have if one prefers a base such as LAX?
Again, thanks for your replies.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clearly
Guppy:
The schedule as ballparked inthe above post is for N American DEFO freighter.
If you were coming to Hong Kong it would be as an SO (which you can do) then you would have a decent enough amount of time off to commute back once per month for 6-7 days, maybe more, plus you could bid LAs etc.
If you take an LA base on the freighter (the co is not yet offering DEFO pax fleet) then you would have to sit your reserve in your base. There are rules right in our contract governing this. Also if you live more than a two hour flight away you must be in your base min 10 hours before to get 8 hours rest. Some of these rules are bent but it is instant firing if you mess it up and miss a flight or delay. Evenif that delay is caused by weather etc.
Also you have to be prepared to take sick days to get the days off you want as you cannot arrange important dates (like court appearances) with the company.
Other than that lots of fun!!
FG
The schedule as ballparked inthe above post is for N American DEFO freighter.
If you were coming to Hong Kong it would be as an SO (which you can do) then you would have a decent enough amount of time off to commute back once per month for 6-7 days, maybe more, plus you could bid LAs etc.
If you take an LA base on the freighter (the co is not yet offering DEFO pax fleet) then you would have to sit your reserve in your base. There are rules right in our contract governing this. Also if you live more than a two hour flight away you must be in your base min 10 hours before to get 8 hours rest. Some of these rules are bent but it is instant firing if you mess it up and miss a flight or delay. Evenif that delay is caused by weather etc.
Also you have to be prepared to take sick days to get the days off you want as you cannot arrange important dates (like court appearances) with the company.
Other than that lots of fun!!
FG
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Discovery Bay
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Five Green;3054914Also you have to be prepared to take sick days to get the days off you want as you cannot arrange important dates
FG[/QUOTE]
Since we're on the topic of Categories among the pilots..We should point out that calling in sick will more than likely hold you back when it's time for your assessment.
Want to be a good boy and gain CAT A status to upgrade? You best not calling in sick.
FG[/QUOTE]
Since we're on the topic of Categories among the pilots..We should point out that calling in sick will more than likely hold you back when it's time for your assessment.
Want to be a good boy and gain CAT A status to upgrade? You best not calling in sick.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That answered my next question. Thanks again for the info and replies. Much appreciated.
If reserve can be within ten hours of base and a two hour commute, a one hour flight from Phoenix might work...but then there's the risk of not being able to get a flight. Then again, perhaps HK would be the better choice. In any event, am I correct in assuming that I don't have much choice or say in the matter for the first few years? I'd certainly hate to risk any chances by being arrogant enough to dictate to the company out of turn. (On the other hand, if it's an accepted practice, no worries).
Does CX have any policies regarding flying off hours...for example, a SO who wants to maintain some semblence of currency doing some instruction on his own time on his off days, or something along those lines?
Ballpark...seems nine months to a year between sending the application and starting training, assuming successful across the board?
If reserve can be within ten hours of base and a two hour commute, a one hour flight from Phoenix might work...but then there's the risk of not being able to get a flight. Then again, perhaps HK would be the better choice. In any event, am I correct in assuming that I don't have much choice or say in the matter for the first few years? I'd certainly hate to risk any chances by being arrogant enough to dictate to the company out of turn. (On the other hand, if it's an accepted practice, no worries).
Does CX have any policies regarding flying off hours...for example, a SO who wants to maintain some semblence of currency doing some instruction on his own time on his off days, or something along those lines?
Ballpark...seems nine months to a year between sending the application and starting training, assuming successful across the board?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be careful what you ask for...
Guppy:
You can ask for an SO course or the DEFO course. Depending on where they have more vacancies (assumig you have the experience for both) will depend on how open they are to placing you. Some have asked and been told no you are interviewing for DEFO others have asked and been been hired as SOs. If they call you for an SO interview though probably won't consider you for DEFO.
Yes you can fly in off time. As long as it does not infringe on hourly duty maximums and it needs to be ok'd with management. I know several pilots who do a little legit flying on the side.
Time between interview and hire can vary. If you are a prime candidate you can get in qiuck, if they like you but not asmuch as some of the others in the que (read Line up!!) then you may wait longer. Good thing is that they wil tell you whether you are hired or not. Unlike some airlines with hiring pools where you might never hear a thing!! Check out thread in wannabe fragrant forum.
FG
You can ask for an SO course or the DEFO course. Depending on where they have more vacancies (assumig you have the experience for both) will depend on how open they are to placing you. Some have asked and been told no you are interviewing for DEFO others have asked and been been hired as SOs. If they call you for an SO interview though probably won't consider you for DEFO.
Yes you can fly in off time. As long as it does not infringe on hourly duty maximums and it needs to be ok'd with management. I know several pilots who do a little legit flying on the side.
Time between interview and hire can vary. If you are a prime candidate you can get in qiuck, if they like you but not asmuch as some of the others in the que (read Line up!!) then you may wait longer. Good thing is that they wil tell you whether you are hired or not. Unlike some airlines with hiring pools where you might never hear a thing!! Check out thread in wannabe fragrant forum.
FG
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guppy,
not sure about the time-off flying. There is a weight limit and I think a restriction on flying commercially...has to be considered in total hours flown. I don't remember it being restrictive though.
I am like you in that I have kids in 1 country, job in another...admittedly oz vs US. I have commuted and I have been based. There are pros/cons to both. If you are an 'every 2nd weekend' dad you will greatly exceed that. If you want to coach the football/basketball team your kid is in, get a different career!
If you want the job with CX, sell yourself as being very HKG centric. I can tell you that SOs get lots of time off. -400 pilots get a lot of time off...in fact I have had friends spend TOO much time off in australia...over 183 nights per year(a local tax threshold thing!). So unless you want your kids 50% of the time(in which case give up flying) I don't see CX as being a major impediment. I have gone 6 weeks without seeing my kids but I have averaged over 1 in 3 nights with them over the last few years...and like you they are an extra flight away from an online port.
So if you want the job, you can make the kids thing work. Just bear in mind that from month to month, and year to year you may go from 'feast' to 'famine' and vice verca for time off and seeing the kids.
Hope this helps
another DD(divorced dad)
not sure about the time-off flying. There is a weight limit and I think a restriction on flying commercially...has to be considered in total hours flown. I don't remember it being restrictive though.
I am like you in that I have kids in 1 country, job in another...admittedly oz vs US. I have commuted and I have been based. There are pros/cons to both. If you are an 'every 2nd weekend' dad you will greatly exceed that. If you want to coach the football/basketball team your kid is in, get a different career!
If you want the job with CX, sell yourself as being very HKG centric. I can tell you that SOs get lots of time off. -400 pilots get a lot of time off...in fact I have had friends spend TOO much time off in australia...over 183 nights per year(a local tax threshold thing!). So unless you want your kids 50% of the time(in which case give up flying) I don't see CX as being a major impediment. I have gone 6 weeks without seeing my kids but I have averaged over 1 in 3 nights with them over the last few years...and like you they are an extra flight away from an online port.
So if you want the job, you can make the kids thing work. Just bear in mind that from month to month, and year to year you may go from 'feast' to 'famine' and vice verca for time off and seeing the kids.
Hope this helps
another DD(divorced dad)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cat A first round= will live on knees but not known if they swallow
Cat A second round= have learned to live on knees and has learned to swallow
Cat B= will not live on knees and does not swallow. Required to attend a year long course to learn to live on knees and is taught to swallow.
Cat C= Very hard to teach to live on knees and swallowing. Usually has to attend a 2-3 year course on living on knees and swallowing.
Cat D1= will never live on knees and will never swallow
Cat D2= Messed up. Too much teeth while swallowing and left a mark. Will be reassessed in 1 year after re-training.
Compare this to the dude's answer.
Cat A second round= have learned to live on knees and has learned to swallow
Cat B= will not live on knees and does not swallow. Required to attend a year long course to learn to live on knees and is taught to swallow.
Cat C= Very hard to teach to live on knees and swallowing. Usually has to attend a 2-3 year course on living on knees and swallowing.
Cat D1= will never live on knees and will never swallow
Cat D2= Messed up. Too much teeth while swallowing and left a mark. Will be reassessed in 1 year after re-training.
Compare this to the dude's answer.
