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A Sad day at Dragonair

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A Sad day at Dragonair

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Old 7th Mar 2006, 11:01
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A Sad day at Dragonair

Hi All
We at KA are generally reluctant to air our dirty laundry on these public and anonymous forums, however today at Dragonair the management have decided to terminate 2 of our colleagues.
As a basic outline, the Pilot Group in KA are in Contract Compliance and after schedule disruption the guys involved chose not to work on a day off whilst downroute, causing major disruption to the company.
I joined KA a few years back and it was not a bad place to be, but how things have changed in such a short space of time.
The 2 guys involved are not "trouble makers", they are very highly thought of both as Captains in our airline and great guys to have a beer with, I believe the management that fired them would agree with me on this.

The guys made a decision and I'm not writing to discuss the pro's and con's of their decision, perhaps some disciplinary action was justified, but to fire them is a disgrace. I'm writing to ensure that all future employees (and current ones) of Dragonair are aware of the management and their attitude towards the pilot group.
I dont wish to sound too dramatic but I firmly believe today moral in KA is as low as it has ever been. It really is a very sad Day

Fx

Last edited by Feather Boa; 7th Mar 2006 at 12:34.
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Old 7th Mar 2006, 11:51
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Feather Boa you are spot on.

Firstly the only crime they committed was saying they would not work on a guaranteed day off when asked not ordered.

There is no rule in any KA manual that says you must work in this situation, unlike CX.

This decision has come from Board level to try and put the frighteners on the troops. It appears they have absolutely no idea how to deal with Contract Compliance other than to follow the lead of CX. It is criminal and insane for any management to allow things to deteriorate to this level and I believe they have no idea what the repercussions of their rash actions will be.
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Old 7th Mar 2006, 16:43
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To KA brethren.

Very disturbed to hear your news.

I hope others will post messages of support here.

N
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 00:46
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Hmmm, well lets see, the concerned FD crew members were asked to fly on a scheduled day off, while downroute, but refused.

Now, in every company I've worked for, if 'asked' to take a flight while downroute, it is because of some schedule disruption or possibly a crew member becoming ill and unable to report, so it would seem to me that to 'refuse' (without a VERY good reason) you are saying to the company...'stuff the job'.

Grounds for termination?

Absolutely.

Serves 'em right.
Perhaps others will take the 'hint' and wake up and smell the coffee.

When you approached the company and asked for work, and then hired, you are positively expected to actually work, not prop up the bar at some hotel downroute, when the company is faced with a schedule problem/disruption.

In addition, many pilots fail to realise that when downroute with most companies they are expected to ready for duty at most any reasonable time, provided of course that they are not rostered off duty due to flight time limitations.

Clearly some don't see it that way, and for those I would say...too bad.

Last edited by 411A; 8th Mar 2006 at 01:17.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 01:41
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411A
Thanks for your sensitive and well informed post.

Previously I thought you were over-opinionated, ignorant and stupid.

Fx

Last edited by Feather Boa; 8th Mar 2006 at 08:17.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 03:54
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411A

We can always rely on your words of wisdom!!!!!!

I would love to write what I really think of you.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 05:27
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Ka

411A

What do you mean by "schedule day off downroute"???? what kind of crap is that??? a day off can only be at your base!

You probably meant "REST" downroute, which is time off between 2 flights, in that case they were dam right to refuse to fly during their rest, but I don't know the facts......we can only speculate.

Cheers
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 08:22
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It was in fact a scheduled day off at home base. The crew presented a solution to IOC which was ignored (probably they didn't understand it due to their own stupidity). The company had a way out of this debacle that they created themselves but chose to make an example of these guys to demonstrate their strength (ie bullying) due to the current deteriorating industrial relationship.

This is intimidation pure and simple.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 09:10
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Thumbs down

It is good to see that KA pilots appear to be concerned about this. It is about time.

There have been a number of pilots sacked for obscure reasons without apparent concern from the pilot body. Most pilots were concerned for their own positions and didn't want to rock the boat. Understandable in the short term but dangerous in the long term. This is now the long term and because previous pilots have not been stood up for the company thinks the pilot body is an easy touch (I am not talking about about CX pilots here).

Well, is it an easy touch?
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 09:49
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When the D and G procedures are complete then we should be told the full circumstances. We can then decide in what way to support these guys, until then speculation is not helpful.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 09:59
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Angry

411A you are a lonely and saaaaaaaaaaaaaaad _______

Cx all over again and the lack of proper legal protection for workers in HKG.

Asia's world city slipping further down the tube!
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 10:11
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Originally Posted by Feather Boa
Hi All

As a basic outline, the Pilot Group in KA are in Contract Compliance and after schedule disruption the guys involved chose not to work on a day off whilst downroute, causing major disruption to the company.
"411A

What do you mean by "schedule day off downroute"???? what kind of crap is that??? a day off can only be at your base!"


With all due respect, 411A only replied to information as quoted by feather Boa above.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 11:12
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Is there a D & G procedure at Dragonair?
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 11:23
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Is there a D & G procedure at Dragonair?
Yes but I think in other parts of the world it's more commonly known as a kangaroo court!
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 11:30
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Some of you Dragonair boys should phone a KA management accountant or lawyer on one of THEIR days off to come and do some long overdue home accounts or OPS Manual updates for you.. 'Oh yes.. I'll be right there' - pigs fly eh.

Shags
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 13:56
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Originally Posted by 411A
Hmmm, well lets see, the concerned FD crew members were asked to fly on a scheduled day off, while downroute, but refused.
Now, in every company I've worked for, if 'asked' to take a flight while downroute, it is because of some schedule disruption or possibly a crew member becoming ill and unable to report, so it would seem to me that to 'refuse' (without a VERY good reason) you are saying to the company...'stuff the job'.
Grounds for termination?
Absolutely.
Serves 'em right.
Perhaps others will take the 'hint' and wake up and smell the coffee.
When you approached the company and asked for work, and then hired, you are positively expected to actually work, not prop up the bar at some hotel downroute, when the company is faced with a schedule problem/disruption.
In addition, many pilots fail to realise that when downroute with most companies they are expected to ready for duty at most any reasonable time, provided of course that they are not rostered off duty due to flight time limitations.
Clearly some don't see it that way, and for those I would say...too bad.
The Old Goose resurrected- 411A. Have not noted you around here recently. Not since days gone by, when you antagonised CX pilots about putting their airline out of business with a fancy Tri Star operation.

So how is Thai Sky going? Get done over by corrupt, Thai venture capital?

Rest in retirement old man.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 15:59
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It has been said many times before on this forum: a Hong Kong company can sack anyone for no reason as long as they receive their entitlement to three months notice and allowances. You can be sure that whatever the reason for their dismissal it will not be cited in any dismissal letter. They will just be dismissed for no reason.

The DPA lawyer has been approached previously on a number of occasions and the advice has always been as above.
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 16:44
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So whats the favoured response from the KA pilot group..... surely they can't just let this management bullying proceed without some form of action.

Newton's 3rd law is somewhat appropriate here....

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
It is obvious the KA management did not react appropriately to the pilot's actions (by the way i thought there was 3 that were sacked)..... so hopefully we'll see an appropriate reaction from the pilots to the unjust sacking of there colleagues. Bearing in mind the mistakes that were made in the past by the CX pilot group!
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Old 8th Mar 2006, 21:03
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I would expect, Night Watch, that any sort of 'action' by the combined pilot group would be complaining here on PPRuNe, keeping in mind the CX49+.

No backbone, and what's worse, no employment law in HKG to back 'em up.

An employers dream...
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Old 9th Mar 2006, 00:15
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Was it a Star Chamber like dismissal or a vindictive manager? The board must have given the OK to get the pilots to fall into line.

Not sure what happened, but rest assured, the management will interpret “following the rules” as industrial action and will act accordingly.
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