recruitment at cx
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Flying Kiwi,
I confess to being out of date, as it was a few years ago, but guess what? The last time I had dealings with the local IFALPA rep. he was also a big geezer in the HKAOA.
Well meant advice to consult the local IFALPA rep, I have no doubt, but possibly not too fruitful.
An anecdote.
Many years ago, when Air Hong Kong was still independant of CX, AHK had its own union, and received a rather pompous invitation to affiliate with the HK AOA. One of the "privileges" of this affiliation was the responsibility to support, with industrial action, if so mandated, any action that the AOA might take against CX management.
When the AHK union (LDACA if I recall correctly) enquired if the AOA would similarly take industrial action in the event of an LDACA dispute with AHK management, no-one was surpised when the AOA indignantly replied that of course they could not jeopardise the careers of their memnbers by involving them in a dispute by which they were not directly affected.
Of course the players were different, and the AOA did not then have the benefit of the advice of a someone who, if rumours are correct, was the number two man of the leader of the most spectacularly unsuccessful industrial action ever undertaken in the UK, if not the world.
It is fashionable on this site, as on most FG sites, to put down the CX aspirants. How many times have you seen slurs implying that the poster of a message was bitter because clearly he was not as good as the CX pilot insulting him, or threatening him with a lifetime ban with any airline whose employees were in any way associated with IFALPA, if he dared to accept a job with CX in spite of the AOA ban?
I sat back for a moment and wondered why I bothered to make this long winded post.
I was lucky. The Queen trained me and it didn't cost me a penny. I even got paid. But I vaguely remember how as a youth how keen I was to be a pilot and was amazed when I made it. If you want something that much, you don't allow some supercillious ignorant bully to get in your way.
So to the job seekers, I say if you want a job with CX, and are offered it, take it.
I confess to being out of date, as it was a few years ago, but guess what? The last time I had dealings with the local IFALPA rep. he was also a big geezer in the HKAOA.
Well meant advice to consult the local IFALPA rep, I have no doubt, but possibly not too fruitful.
An anecdote.
Many years ago, when Air Hong Kong was still independant of CX, AHK had its own union, and received a rather pompous invitation to affiliate with the HK AOA. One of the "privileges" of this affiliation was the responsibility to support, with industrial action, if so mandated, any action that the AOA might take against CX management.
When the AHK union (LDACA if I recall correctly) enquired if the AOA would similarly take industrial action in the event of an LDACA dispute with AHK management, no-one was surpised when the AOA indignantly replied that of course they could not jeopardise the careers of their memnbers by involving them in a dispute by which they were not directly affected.
Of course the players were different, and the AOA did not then have the benefit of the advice of a someone who, if rumours are correct, was the number two man of the leader of the most spectacularly unsuccessful industrial action ever undertaken in the UK, if not the world.
It is fashionable on this site, as on most FG sites, to put down the CX aspirants. How many times have you seen slurs implying that the poster of a message was bitter because clearly he was not as good as the CX pilot insulting him, or threatening him with a lifetime ban with any airline whose employees were in any way associated with IFALPA, if he dared to accept a job with CX in spite of the AOA ban?
I sat back for a moment and wondered why I bothered to make this long winded post.
I was lucky. The Queen trained me and it didn't cost me a penny. I even got paid. But I vaguely remember how as a youth how keen I was to be a pilot and was amazed when I made it. If you want something that much, you don't allow some supercillious ignorant bully to get in your way.
So to the job seekers, I say if you want a job with CX, and are offered it, take it.
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thanks for all that guys,
sounds like a lot of you need to head down to the wanchai district.......................
nothing can really be that bad?!?! no airline, and company for that fact is perfect. you take the good with the bad and get on with the job, which i think cx as a company does really well. i learnt a valuable lesson reasontly which is that a company will do what ever THEY WANT / NEED for their bottom line, nd their is not much anyone can do about it. you can either accept it move on..
i read a book a few yeare ago; Beyond Lion Rock. from that day on the only airline i wanted to fly for was cx. i had approach plates of the rwy13igs, and was, to say the least pissed off when they decommissioned that airfield, as im sure a lot of you were as well. would have given my left testicle, and still would, to shoot an approach in there in crap weather... magical. what a place to live in as well.
just hope that one day im given the opportunity to join the long and distinguised rank of cx.....
on a final note, i recently lost my job due to company being taken over. our pilots had long and protracted negotionations with management, and still are. and to what avail??? i left, and moved on... maybe not the best move given the current aviation climate but we cannot win against management.
wish you guys all the best with it and hope it sorts its self out soon.
regards.
ps have com 2 regularly tuned into the high level freqs and love to hear those cx position reports while im cruising 30 odd thousand feet below....
sounds like a lot of you need to head down to the wanchai district.......................
nothing can really be that bad?!?! no airline, and company for that fact is perfect. you take the good with the bad and get on with the job, which i think cx as a company does really well. i learnt a valuable lesson reasontly which is that a company will do what ever THEY WANT / NEED for their bottom line, nd their is not much anyone can do about it. you can either accept it move on..
i read a book a few yeare ago; Beyond Lion Rock. from that day on the only airline i wanted to fly for was cx. i had approach plates of the rwy13igs, and was, to say the least pissed off when they decommissioned that airfield, as im sure a lot of you were as well. would have given my left testicle, and still would, to shoot an approach in there in crap weather... magical. what a place to live in as well.
just hope that one day im given the opportunity to join the long and distinguised rank of cx.....
on a final note, i recently lost my job due to company being taken over. our pilots had long and protracted negotionations with management, and still are. and to what avail??? i left, and moved on... maybe not the best move given the current aviation climate but we cannot win against management.
wish you guys all the best with it and hope it sorts its self out soon.
regards.
ps have com 2 regularly tuned into the high level freqs and love to hear those cx position reports while im cruising 30 odd thousand feet below....
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IFALPA Recruitment Ban
The International Federation of Air Line Pilots Associations (IFALPA) has enacted a. .ban on recruitment into Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., Veta Ltd. and USAB Ltd. on. .behalf of the member pilots of the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association (HKAOA).
The Recruitment Ban comes into effect for any pilot who accepts employment. .commencing on or after 9 th October 2001.
The recruitment ban has been enacted in response to Cathay Pacific management’s. .firing 53 pilots in July 2001. These pilots, with two exceptions, were terminated for no. .reason and they were denied the ability to appeal the decision through the. .contractual Disciplinary and Grievance procedure. The ban is to maximise the. .pressure to re-employ our pilots whilst the dispute continues. Recruitment of. .replacement pilots reduces the likelihood of a successful resolution to the dispute.
Until further notice the acceptance of a contract of employment as a pilot with any of. .the above-mentioned companies will result in that pilot having his name placed on a. .list to be compiled by the HKAOA. The list will be circulated to all Member. .Associations (MA) of IFALPA for information and any action that MA may deem. .required in accordance with its own constitution or resolutions.
Any pilot whose name is placed on this list will be ineligible to become a member of. .the HKAOA. Such ban will be for life. Furthermore, pilots who accept employment. .whilst the recruitment ban is in effect will be made unwelcome by the membership of. .the HKAOA.
The HKAOA will not provide support for a listed pilot in any circumstances whereby it. .would normally act on behalf of a pilot. This includes Accident and Incident. .investigations, Discipline and Grievance procedures, legal representation in foreign. .countries, etc.
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PlusHundred,
As you seem to have a handle on the HKAOA/IFALPA end of things, can you explain why the ban is only in place to stop recruitment and not for upgrades. Surely the 53 are a lost cause because members of the HKAOA have accepted upgrades and taken the positions of those unfortunate 53.
I would have thought that the only possible answer here would be to stop all movement/employment until the 53 were re-instated.
As you seem to have a handle on the HKAOA/IFALPA end of things, can you explain why the ban is only in place to stop recruitment and not for upgrades. Surely the 53 are a lost cause because members of the HKAOA have accepted upgrades and taken the positions of those unfortunate 53.
I would have thought that the only possible answer here would be to stop all movement/employment until the 53 were re-instated.
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Frankg is caught on the horns of a moral dilemma, which self-interest prevents him from addressing. What is 'normal' or mandated to IFALPA is irrelevant. If a recruitment ban is morally justified, then so is an upgrade ban. The new recruit and the FO getting his command are taking advantage of the same set of circumstances. Frankg gives further insight, if any were needed, of the convoluted thinking of union activists when questions of morality are raised. Hiding behind concepts such as 'mandate' simply re-states the obvious; the Emperor has no clothes on.
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Frankg is caught on the horns of a moral dilemma, which self-interest prevents him from addressing. What is 'normal' or mandated to IFALPA is irrelevant. If a recruitment ban is morally justified, then so is an upgrade ban. The new recruit and the FO getting his command are taking advantage of the same set of circumstances. Frankg gives further insight, if any were needed, of the convoluted thinking of union activists when questions of morality are raised. Hiding behind concepts such as 'mandate' simply re-states the obvious; the Emperor has no clothes on.
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No 411A
I escaped from there over a year ago.
The company I have been working for have just. .changed hands, and most of the staff have been. .terminated. Aside from that I spend a fair . .amount of time in Asia and the Far East, and . .would be happy to make that a more permanent . .arrangement. Unless of course you'd like me to. .come and help with your L10's in the USA. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Tarek Nor ]</p>
I escaped from there over a year ago.
The company I have been working for have just. .changed hands, and most of the staff have been. .terminated. Aside from that I spend a fair . .amount of time in Asia and the Far East, and . .would be happy to make that a more permanent . .arrangement. Unless of course you'd like me to. .come and help with your L10's in the USA. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Tarek Nor ]</p>
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I just read that the ban was going to be terminated, because of over-focusing the minds of the involved crew-members. . .So in order to enable them to speak about something else (anything, politics, sport, sex, wildife conservation in Northern Okavango) the whole idea of the recruitment ban was going to be discarded.
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frankg, my life experience tells me before long you will personally be severely disappointed by the actions of various Officers in trusted positions. When political expedience enters the scene (and the UN is a wholly political body) you will be surprised at what some people can be forced to do.
IMHO (with the emphasis on HUMBLE) the HKAOA has long been beating a dead horse and is straying some distance from today's reality - as are you. In today's job market the airline that employs you can - with some difficulty, I would admit - fire the lot of you and find replacements in no time flat, whether you like it or not. Cathay is known as a plum employer and I am sure qualified and current pilots would leave their present Sad Sack employers and jump the fence in the twinkling of an eye, ban or no ban, if it looked like permanent work.
You can only take any cause just so far. I would suggest that limit is approaching, however slowly/rapidly, and I would HUMBLY suggest that those who cherish their jobs at CX should take a serious look at how much they appreciate their careers in this time of severe pilot job shortages... once laid off from CX they then carry a red stamp on their forehead for future employers.
Perhaps it is time to revisit reality and either cut losses or make a deal, my friend.
And at the very least you might consider cutting back on the rhetoric against those who are entitled to express their own opinions on this forum - you are not in the hallowed halls of the HKAOA here.
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: ipanema ]</p>
IMHO (with the emphasis on HUMBLE) the HKAOA has long been beating a dead horse and is straying some distance from today's reality - as are you. In today's job market the airline that employs you can - with some difficulty, I would admit - fire the lot of you and find replacements in no time flat, whether you like it or not. Cathay is known as a plum employer and I am sure qualified and current pilots would leave their present Sad Sack employers and jump the fence in the twinkling of an eye, ban or no ban, if it looked like permanent work.
You can only take any cause just so far. I would suggest that limit is approaching, however slowly/rapidly, and I would HUMBLY suggest that those who cherish their jobs at CX should take a serious look at how much they appreciate their careers in this time of severe pilot job shortages... once laid off from CX they then carry a red stamp on their forehead for future employers.
Perhaps it is time to revisit reality and either cut losses or make a deal, my friend.
And at the very least you might consider cutting back on the rhetoric against those who are entitled to express their own opinions on this forum - you are not in the hallowed halls of the HKAOA here.
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: ipanema ]</p>
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Frankg and others...
Remember, you are not in USA or Australia or Canada, but in China, in case you have forgotten it.. .When all of you have been duely kicked out by your management and replaced by brasilian, argentinian, belgian and french pilots (and I forget the russians) it will be time for you to moan... and for the rest of the world to smile.
And please, don't label your contradictors so easily as "wannabees" or "management plants" (I know I'm not, but it belongs to me) it just shows up the intellectual weakness of your positions...
Remember, you are not in USA or Australia or Canada, but in China, in case you have forgotten it.. .When all of you have been duely kicked out by your management and replaced by brasilian, argentinian, belgian and french pilots (and I forget the russians) it will be time for you to moan... and for the rest of the world to smile.
And please, don't label your contradictors so easily as "wannabees" or "management plants" (I know I'm not, but it belongs to me) it just shows up the intellectual weakness of your positions...