Intimidation Faced Daily by CX Pilots
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Aluetian Islands
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Intimidation Faced Daily by CX Pilots
This is what hundreds of CX pilots have already gone through. This is what you will face if you join Cathay.
The following is the unedited text of advice sent by the AOA to its members to advise them on how to handle the intimidatory interviews faced daily:
IMPORTANT NOTES ON CX DISCIPLINARY AND GRIEVANCE PROCEDURES (DGP)
In today's turbulent industrial environment more and more Officers are being called in by management and interviewed on one matter or another. Many of these interviews are prompted by delays to departures, others by reports alleging 'non-standard performance'.
It is very important for members to realize that when being subject to an interview you are on the verge of going into a Disciplinary and Grievance procedure. It is therefore timely to bring to light some of the tactics employed by management.
Paragraph 9.1 of the DGP states, "Prior to the disciplinary procedure being instituted, the Manager Flying will first conduct a preliminary investigation and be satisfied that there is a case to answer."
Many requests to "pop in and have a chat next time you are in CX City" are, in fact, a preliminary investigation but Officers are often not told of this. Therefore, any time you receive a request to pop in for a chat ask what it is about. If told, "I'll tell you when you get here", do insist on knowing the reason for the chat and ask whether it is a preliminary investigation that could lead to DGP. Also ask who will be conducting the interview. At the OPS/AOA meeting held on 22nd February 2001, DDFO said that, "The Company agreed that more than one manager should not conduct a preliminary investigation and the officer should know the general background before any meeting." Please quote this reference, which is verbatim from the company's minutes of the meeting, if you get a refusal to let you know the subject of the chat and who will be carrying it out.
Do not go for a chat at the end of a duty when you are tired and therefore most vulnerable. Once a duty has ended you are not obliged to agree to a request to be interviewed. If contacted via 8929 and asked to ring a manager, do so but politely decline any request to be interviewed straight away. If you cannot make contact for any reason, do leave a message on an ansaphone and make a note of any time you rang but could not get through. Remember that your duty ends 30 minutes after blocks on. You are not obliged to attend an interview on GDO's.
Officers have also been asked to 'pop in for a chat' just before a duty. Think very carefully about whether you should attend an interview just before a duty. Interviews such as are taking place now can leave you in no fit state to operate a flight. Please resist the natural temptation to find out what they want and get it over with.
ALWAYS CONTACT THE ASSOCIATION AND GET ADVICE BEFORE YOU ATTEND ANY INTERVIEW.
We have received reports that once in the interview the manager will begin the questioning and try and get you to contradict yourself. The net result is that the initial reason for the chat is forgotten and Officers can be accused of misleading the investigation or even being accused of breach of trust. Such a charge could lead to very serious consequences. It is therefore critical that everything you say is provable. The corollary is to say the least possible. Try and keep your answers brief and to the point and resist the temptation to embellish. Stick to the facts and do not offer opinion. You are free to take as long as you wish to answer, do not rush your answers, and think about what you say.
Another reported tactic commonly employed is anger. They often resort to shouting and sarcastic comments. Be prepared and stay calm. Do not be provoked into replying in anger. Be aware of the 'good cop, bad cop' approach if you are faced with two managers. Despite DDFO's assurance that this will not happen, it has.
Cathay managers have in the past gone to unbelievable lengths to check out statements made by pilots in the initial interview. Do not assume that they are over tasked and that it would be just too hard for them to investigate what you say. So, please do not say anything that you cannot prove to be fact. Take notes during any interview and afterwards go through them and ensure that you have an accurate record of what was said.
In addition, it's important that you don't discuss the details of your case with anyone other than the AOA, and even then in a quiet, secure place. The more people you talk to, the more advice you will receive and the more confused you will become. Even the best-intentioned advice is not always the best advice.
It is often said that an individual facing DGP has few rights and the final appeal is invariably to an interested party. The rules of common law do not apply and natural justice is often filtered through Cathay's version of "in the best interests of the company." Many Officers believe that the DGP is no more than a kangaroo court.
The following is the unedited text of advice sent by the AOA to its members to advise them on how to handle the intimidatory interviews faced daily:
IMPORTANT NOTES ON CX DISCIPLINARY AND GRIEVANCE PROCEDURES (DGP)
In today's turbulent industrial environment more and more Officers are being called in by management and interviewed on one matter or another. Many of these interviews are prompted by delays to departures, others by reports alleging 'non-standard performance'.
It is very important for members to realize that when being subject to an interview you are on the verge of going into a Disciplinary and Grievance procedure. It is therefore timely to bring to light some of the tactics employed by management.
Paragraph 9.1 of the DGP states, "Prior to the disciplinary procedure being instituted, the Manager Flying will first conduct a preliminary investigation and be satisfied that there is a case to answer."
Many requests to "pop in and have a chat next time you are in CX City" are, in fact, a preliminary investigation but Officers are often not told of this. Therefore, any time you receive a request to pop in for a chat ask what it is about. If told, "I'll tell you when you get here", do insist on knowing the reason for the chat and ask whether it is a preliminary investigation that could lead to DGP. Also ask who will be conducting the interview. At the OPS/AOA meeting held on 22nd February 2001, DDFO said that, "The Company agreed that more than one manager should not conduct a preliminary investigation and the officer should know the general background before any meeting." Please quote this reference, which is verbatim from the company's minutes of the meeting, if you get a refusal to let you know the subject of the chat and who will be carrying it out.
Do not go for a chat at the end of a duty when you are tired and therefore most vulnerable. Once a duty has ended you are not obliged to agree to a request to be interviewed. If contacted via 8929 and asked to ring a manager, do so but politely decline any request to be interviewed straight away. If you cannot make contact for any reason, do leave a message on an ansaphone and make a note of any time you rang but could not get through. Remember that your duty ends 30 minutes after blocks on. You are not obliged to attend an interview on GDO's.
Officers have also been asked to 'pop in for a chat' just before a duty. Think very carefully about whether you should attend an interview just before a duty. Interviews such as are taking place now can leave you in no fit state to operate a flight. Please resist the natural temptation to find out what they want and get it over with.
ALWAYS CONTACT THE ASSOCIATION AND GET ADVICE BEFORE YOU ATTEND ANY INTERVIEW.
We have received reports that once in the interview the manager will begin the questioning and try and get you to contradict yourself. The net result is that the initial reason for the chat is forgotten and Officers can be accused of misleading the investigation or even being accused of breach of trust. Such a charge could lead to very serious consequences. It is therefore critical that everything you say is provable. The corollary is to say the least possible. Try and keep your answers brief and to the point and resist the temptation to embellish. Stick to the facts and do not offer opinion. You are free to take as long as you wish to answer, do not rush your answers, and think about what you say.
Another reported tactic commonly employed is anger. They often resort to shouting and sarcastic comments. Be prepared and stay calm. Do not be provoked into replying in anger. Be aware of the 'good cop, bad cop' approach if you are faced with two managers. Despite DDFO's assurance that this will not happen, it has.
Cathay managers have in the past gone to unbelievable lengths to check out statements made by pilots in the initial interview. Do not assume that they are over tasked and that it would be just too hard for them to investigate what you say. So, please do not say anything that you cannot prove to be fact. Take notes during any interview and afterwards go through them and ensure that you have an accurate record of what was said.
In addition, it's important that you don't discuss the details of your case with anyone other than the AOA, and even then in a quiet, secure place. The more people you talk to, the more advice you will receive and the more confused you will become. Even the best-intentioned advice is not always the best advice.
It is often said that an individual facing DGP has few rights and the final appeal is invariably to an interested party. The rules of common law do not apply and natural justice is often filtered through Cathay's version of "in the best interests of the company." Many Officers believe that the DGP is no more than a kangaroo court.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I read in one of the posts, that the Gestapo are monitoring your pre-flight duties - are they also jump-seating on any of the trips?
"Good Luck, Cathay guys!."
"Good Luck, Cathay guys!."
