Is the Truth in Here?
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Is the Truth in Here?
Hi there
I am the Hong Kong Representative for MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, the world's largest privately funded organisation for the scientific investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects. I have been informed by a passenger who travelled on last Tuesday morning's (Dec. 4) Cathay Pacific Flight to Bangkok, that the flight was delayed, and that the Pilot reported to the passengers over the Public Address system that the delay was due to:
"China having closed its airspace due to a UFO"
I would be grateful if anyone on this forum could provide me with any information on the incident which reportedly took place on the morning of Tuesday December 4, onboard Cathay CX 713, originally scheduled to depart at 0905 hours.
I am not pulling your legs folks, this was reported to me by an upstanding citizen, an Internationally well known Yacht designer in fact. I am simply trying to research the facts and an aviation expert I know suggested this forum. I am an 'outsider', but I do have a PPL and a lot of friends in aviation. I am a 'serious' UFO researcher which means I want information and answers, not little green men.
Anyone who doesn't want to reply on the open forum is welcome to e-mail me at:
[email protected]
All replies will be treated in strict confidentiality.
Thanks
I am the Hong Kong Representative for MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, the world's largest privately funded organisation for the scientific investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects. I have been informed by a passenger who travelled on last Tuesday morning's (Dec. 4) Cathay Pacific Flight to Bangkok, that the flight was delayed, and that the Pilot reported to the passengers over the Public Address system that the delay was due to:
"China having closed its airspace due to a UFO"
I would be grateful if anyone on this forum could provide me with any information on the incident which reportedly took place on the morning of Tuesday December 4, onboard Cathay CX 713, originally scheduled to depart at 0905 hours.
I am not pulling your legs folks, this was reported to me by an upstanding citizen, an Internationally well known Yacht designer in fact. I am simply trying to research the facts and an aviation expert I know suggested this forum. I am an 'outsider', but I do have a PPL and a lot of friends in aviation. I am a 'serious' UFO researcher which means I want information and answers, not little green men.
Anyone who doesn't want to reply on the open forum is welcome to e-mail me at:
[email protected]
All replies will be treated in strict confidentiality.
Thanks
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Must of been some Russian equipment up there. How they get off the ground is still unexplained.
If this is not a wind up I would love to hear more. Is there any pilots who have seen anything weird up in the sky before?
If this is not a wind up I would love to hear more. Is there any pilots who have seen anything weird up in the sky before?
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This is not a wind up. MUFON's web address is http://www.mufon.com/
There is no website for HK MUFON as there are only me and two other interested guys.
I have been the Hong Kong rep for five years but have not been particularly active, as I have not had much to investigate!
My friend who reported the incident to me was (obviously) on the aircraft and when he eventually got to Bangkok was told that there had been delays there as well, on the 'new route' over Hainan.
Perhaps it was the Russian satellite that was supposed to have come down about the same time - why then did the Pilot say he had been delayed because the airspace was closed because of a UFO?
Note - I said UFO - not extraterrestrial spacecraft.
Best regards and looking for information
There is no website for HK MUFON as there are only me and two other interested guys.
I have been the Hong Kong rep for five years but have not been particularly active, as I have not had much to investigate!
My friend who reported the incident to me was (obviously) on the aircraft and when he eventually got to Bangkok was told that there had been delays there as well, on the 'new route' over Hainan.
Perhaps it was the Russian satellite that was supposed to have come down about the same time - why then did the Pilot say he had been delayed because the airspace was closed because of a UFO?
Note - I said UFO - not extraterrestrial spacecraft.
Best regards and looking for information
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Don't be excited reading this message!
I saw the UFO before.
There are spy planes flying around south china sea where most of the south asia pacific routes laid; particularly the one going to Bankok. ATC Radar can pick up their primary return on the screen and warn the airliners. Sometimes it takes over an hour for it to clear the airspace. You can guess where does it come from, nuisance isn't it?
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: CharlieBrown ]
I saw the UFO before.
There are spy planes flying around south china sea where most of the south asia pacific routes laid; particularly the one going to Bankok. ATC Radar can pick up their primary return on the screen and warn the airliners. Sometimes it takes over an hour for it to clear the airspace. You can guess where does it come from, nuisance isn't it?
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: CharlieBrown ]
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OK guys, just follow the MUFON link and you'll find the degree of credibility of this group.
Let's start with 'plane' which I tend to use to shape wood, not zoom around the sky...
Let's start with 'plane' which I tend to use to shape wood, not zoom around the sky...
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Just because it is unidentified does not mean it is extraterrestrial.
HKR I guess you are real proud to be the representative. Send us the good news here when you have found ET.
PS, he likes skittles.
HKR I guess you are real proud to be the representative. Send us the good news here when you have found ET.
PS, he likes skittles.
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411A - You wrote:
<<<OK guys, just follow the MUFON link and you'll find the degree of credibility of this group.>>>
Don't judge the group by the website, which is not particularly impressive, I admit. MUFON has a large membership, global coverage and sticks to rigorous, sceptical investigation protocols. I suggest you could read some of the research papers posted on the site before judging the group.
<<<OK guys, just follow the MUFON link and you'll find the degree of credibility of this group.>>>
Don't judge the group by the website, which is not particularly impressive, I admit. MUFON has a large membership, global coverage and sticks to rigorous, sceptical investigation protocols. I suggest you could read some of the research papers posted on the site before judging the group.
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smallwing
you wrote:
<<<Just because it is unidentified does not mean it is extraterrestrial.>>>
Yes, I made the same statement myself in my second post.
<<<HKR I guess you are real proud to be the representative.>>>
Not especially - I inherited the job by virtue of being the first Hong Konger to join MUFON and because I have a lot of impressive academic credentials (of which I am 'real proud'). The first time I got involved in anything here in HK I made the mistake of letting my name get out (I trusted a Post reporter to keep his promise not to 'shop' me). It caused a lot of trouble, because of the sorts of attitudes the subject always generates in people who don't know anything about it and blindly accept the popular press view that all Ufologists are crackpots.
Of course, everyone here in this forum is a professional, technically skilled person and certainly wouldn't react in that knee jerk way to such a controversial subject, now would they?
you wrote:
<<<Just because it is unidentified does not mean it is extraterrestrial.>>>
Yes, I made the same statement myself in my second post.
<<<HKR I guess you are real proud to be the representative.>>>
Not especially - I inherited the job by virtue of being the first Hong Konger to join MUFON and because I have a lot of impressive academic credentials (of which I am 'real proud'). The first time I got involved in anything here in HK I made the mistake of letting my name get out (I trusted a Post reporter to keep his promise not to 'shop' me). It caused a lot of trouble, because of the sorts of attitudes the subject always generates in people who don't know anything about it and blindly accept the popular press view that all Ufologists are crackpots.
Of course, everyone here in this forum is a professional, technically skilled person and certainly wouldn't react in that knee jerk way to such a controversial subject, now would they?
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Wanchai Butterfly
You wrote:
<<<4th December
Cx713 Ops by B-HNH B773 HKG to BKK actually departed 3 minutes early.
BKK to SIN ops on time>>>
Thanks for this - can you tell me where it is possible to access operation information like this?
My friend told me that the pilot made the announcement after he had aborted the take off run. Departure times are normally reported as the time the aircraft left the gate, are they not?
I am trying to check the details with my friend (he's sailing on one of the America's Cup boats in Auckland right now and is hard to contact).
Thanks again for your information - my friend was NOT kidding about what he heard from the pilot. I merely want to find out what records are available. Does anyone know how to trace the flight crew?
[email protected] for a confidential reply
Thanks
You wrote:
<<<4th December
Cx713 Ops by B-HNH B773 HKG to BKK actually departed 3 minutes early.
BKK to SIN ops on time>>>
Thanks for this - can you tell me where it is possible to access operation information like this?
My friend told me that the pilot made the announcement after he had aborted the take off run. Departure times are normally reported as the time the aircraft left the gate, are they not?
I am trying to check the details with my friend (he's sailing on one of the America's Cup boats in Auckland right now and is hard to contact).
Thanks again for your information - my friend was NOT kidding about what he heard from the pilot. I merely want to find out what records are available. Does anyone know how to trace the flight crew?
[email protected] for a confidential reply
Thanks
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411A
Sorry - can't tell the players without a programme.
re: Bxllxcks
The story from the passenger was - take off run started. Take off run aborted. Pilot came on intercom and said 'Sorry for the delay... due to blah blah'
I am trying to get more details from the passenger.
Sorry - can't tell the players without a programme.
re: Bxllxcks
The story from the passenger was - take off run started. Take off run aborted. Pilot came on intercom and said 'Sorry for the delay... due to blah blah'
I am trying to get more details from the passenger.
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HKR,
I have to admire your sticking to your guns in the face of imbecility. Whether or not someone "believes" in UFO's or what have you, nothing you've said merits anything less than a bit of common civility.
Unfortunately, you're unlikely to find that anywhere in the "Frangrant Harbour", as a quick read through any given thread will prove.
Good luck!
I have to admire your sticking to your guns in the face of imbecility. Whether or not someone "believes" in UFO's or what have you, nothing you've said merits anything less than a bit of common civility.
Unfortunately, you're unlikely to find that anywhere in the "Frangrant Harbour", as a quick read through any given thread will prove.
Good luck!
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Prior to its public disclosure, the odd shaped stealth F117 had been sighted and reported as a UFO for many years! Just imagine how many classified weird looking unmanned aerial contraptions are operated by the World's military forces right now. 
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Thansk PeterZee
You don't get into UFO research unless you have a pretty thick skin.
My friend confirms it was CX 713, December 4.
Anyone know how to find out who was on the flight deck?
I've written to Cathay although airlines tend to be not too forthcoming on UFO reports.
Anyone have anything sensible to add? If not I'll go away and let you get back to your peanut throwing.
You don't get into UFO research unless you have a pretty thick skin.
My friend confirms it was CX 713, December 4.
Anyone know how to find out who was on the flight deck?
I've written to Cathay although airlines tend to be not too forthcoming on UFO reports.
Anyone have anything sensible to add? If not I'll go away and let you get back to your peanut throwing.
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Anyone not too busy with their peanuts, thought you might be interested in the results of my enquiries into the alleged UFO.
I wrote to both the HK Civil Aviation Dept and to Cathay Pacific, both replied in writing yesterday. The following is the gist, quotes where indicated are verbatim.
Cathay said CX 713 took off at 09:17, 15 minutes after pushing back from the ramp. The guy from operations who replied said he spoke to the Captain:
"...who recalled that they did in fact have to wait a short while prior to take-off due to Flight Level congestion on airway 202. He recalls his announcement to the passengers saying the delay was due to 'unavailability of flight levels' - and definitely not 'unidentified flying objects'! He does admit there is some similarity between the two phrases and that his diction may not have been ideal!"
Very interesting in view of the CAD's reply:
"From our records there was no report of any occurrence on 4 December 2001 as you described. However, record (sic) shows that on 3 December 2001 the departure of a Cathay Pacific Flight, CX 713 was delayed by a temporary closure of a certain portion of the airspace southwest of Hong Kong which is under the administration of China. CX 713 departed later after changing to a more southerly route.
With regard to the report on UFO, on that morning, there was an aircraft operating in Hong Kong airspace which had not submitted a flight plan as per normal practice. Such kind of traffic is commonly referred to as 'UFO' in air traffic control but it was not that kind of unidentified flying objects that would warrant scientific investigation. Information on this aircraft was passed to the flight crew of CX 713 and the resultant misinterpretation is regretted. According to our record, CX 713 was the only outbound flight that was affected by the aforesaid airspace closure."
There you have it - another one bites the dust although I shall clarify - possibly it is poor record keeping on CAD's part, and the Captain doesn't want to admit to Cathay management that he used the 'U' word.
Any comments or additional information, please write to [email protected]
I wrote to both the HK Civil Aviation Dept and to Cathay Pacific, both replied in writing yesterday. The following is the gist, quotes where indicated are verbatim.
Cathay said CX 713 took off at 09:17, 15 minutes after pushing back from the ramp. The guy from operations who replied said he spoke to the Captain:
"...who recalled that they did in fact have to wait a short while prior to take-off due to Flight Level congestion on airway 202. He recalls his announcement to the passengers saying the delay was due to 'unavailability of flight levels' - and definitely not 'unidentified flying objects'! He does admit there is some similarity between the two phrases and that his diction may not have been ideal!"
Very interesting in view of the CAD's reply:
"From our records there was no report of any occurrence on 4 December 2001 as you described. However, record (sic) shows that on 3 December 2001 the departure of a Cathay Pacific Flight, CX 713 was delayed by a temporary closure of a certain portion of the airspace southwest of Hong Kong which is under the administration of China. CX 713 departed later after changing to a more southerly route.
With regard to the report on UFO, on that morning, there was an aircraft operating in Hong Kong airspace which had not submitted a flight plan as per normal practice. Such kind of traffic is commonly referred to as 'UFO' in air traffic control but it was not that kind of unidentified flying objects that would warrant scientific investigation. Information on this aircraft was passed to the flight crew of CX 713 and the resultant misinterpretation is regretted. According to our record, CX 713 was the only outbound flight that was affected by the aforesaid airspace closure."
There you have it - another one bites the dust although I shall clarify - possibly it is poor record keeping on CAD's part, and the Captain doesn't want to admit to Cathay management that he used the 'U' word.
Any comments or additional information, please write to [email protected]
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HKR, you will not get ANY crew names from Cathay Operations. The HKAOA will not "help" you either. The operating crew will not contact you. Why? To protect regular crew just doing their jobs from nutters.
I had a look at the MUFON web site, and frankly I was appalled. What total tripe. I can only think it's tongue in cheek. No-one could be that silly. The "Mysterious, unexplained objects" seen in the WTC videos (Second aircraft) were nothing more than ENGINES. Do you have any idea how much kinetic energy is in an object(s) weighing over three tons travelling at 500 MPH?
One more time. ENGINES. Post that.
I had a look at the MUFON web site, and frankly I was appalled. What total tripe. I can only think it's tongue in cheek. No-one could be that silly. The "Mysterious, unexplained objects" seen in the WTC videos (Second aircraft) were nothing more than ENGINES. Do you have any idea how much kinetic energy is in an object(s) weighing over three tons travelling at 500 MPH?
One more time. ENGINES. Post that.