Why has CX stopped flying to MAN ?
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Sigma
I imagine B744 crews better utilised elsewhere especially in the current climate. AMS/MAN v.v and CDG/MAN v.v. not good use of limited resource. Longer term, reduced frequency but non-stop by 340 to/from MAN strongly rumoured to be under consideration.
Likewise AMS to be served as turnround with A340
SH
I imagine B744 crews better utilised elsewhere especially in the current climate. AMS/MAN v.v and CDG/MAN v.v. not good use of limited resource. Longer term, reduced frequency but non-stop by 340 to/from MAN strongly rumoured to be under consideration.
Likewise AMS to be served as turnround with A340
SH
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340 non stop has been rumoured for the last 3 to 4 years. Manchester temp suspended until end of September but will return. 271/0 currently terminating at Amsterdam, last I heard was Amsterdam will be dropped and daily non stop 340 to Manchester. 
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Spanners Sigma
Being overtaken by events. Plan WAS as per
my previous but introduction of 3rd daily daylight LHR v.v. wef Winter schedule (AOA permitting) will mean 21 pax svc per week to LHR plus freighters. I think we are up to the frequency permitted to UK. MAN future therefore much less promising. Good luck to CX MAN team.
SH
Being overtaken by events. Plan WAS as per
my previous but introduction of 3rd daily daylight LHR v.v. wef Winter schedule (AOA permitting) will mean 21 pax svc per week to LHR plus freighters. I think we are up to the frequency permitted to UK. MAN future therefore much less promising. Good luck to CX MAN team.
SH
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Latest is that the flight is suspended until 31st July 2002. Jobs will be guaranteed until then, after that should the flight not return, then the possibility of redundancies will be inevitable!
Doubt if the people in Manchester will get any help or support from the HKAOA and pilots that have brought this about though.
Doubt if the people in Manchester will get any help or support from the HKAOA and pilots that have brought this about though.
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Dear spanners,
Why are the pilots to blame? They do not have any influence on CX decisions regarding manpower. CX have just terminated 53 pilots for no reason. Ask Mr turnbull why they are gone, ask him why the MAN people are about to go and ask him why the ZRH people are no longer around. It seems to me that the HKAOA and the pilots are fighting a battle to ensure that good business ethics are introduced into this company. The parent/child relationship worked in the past when they were benevolent parents. Now they are an extremely belligerent and unpleasant bunch of people. They need to be shown the way towards achieving an adult/adult relationship. If the pilots lose this then all CX employees will regret it, even you!
Why are the pilots to blame? They do not have any influence on CX decisions regarding manpower. CX have just terminated 53 pilots for no reason. Ask Mr turnbull why they are gone, ask him why the MAN people are about to go and ask him why the ZRH people are no longer around. It seems to me that the HKAOA and the pilots are fighting a battle to ensure that good business ethics are introduced into this company. The parent/child relationship worked in the past when they were benevolent parents. Now they are an extremely belligerent and unpleasant bunch of people. They need to be shown the way towards achieving an adult/adult relationship. If the pilots lose this then all CX employees will regret it, even you!
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Well everything was ok before the present industrial action by the pilots and as a result of this, services to Manchester and some other ports have been suspended and as a result there may be redundancies. So yes this is on the consciences of the pilots, not that they care about anybody but themselves!
Thread Starter
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Its official I have heard, they have dropped the flight indefinitely , a review will take place in 12 months time.
Looks like I will have to go to LHR to fly or with another airline.
I agree, it was started by the dispute but who would have thought it would turnout with a total cancellation.
Looks like I will have to go to LHR to fly or with another airline.
I agree, it was started by the dispute but who would have thought it would turnout with a total cancellation.
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So everything was OK before was it spanners? Have you been on leave for the last 8 years or do you just believe the CX publicity machine? One doesn’t need to be particularly astute to see through the posturing and BS. As you always appeared fairly astute in your previous posts I assume you are now just being mischievous. Are you aware that this is the third time the company have walked away from negotiations prior to imposing yet another contract. If they are so smart why didn’t they impose the one they wanted first time around? Or do they make it up as they go along. What do you think of a bunch of managers who deliberately sabotage their own airline and disrupt their passengers and try to use this as a weapon against their pilots? They sacked 3 pilots then another 49 then grounded a large part of the fleet and put hundreds of CX crew on standby. They told the media the pilots were on a sick out, hence they were spending millions on wet leased aircraft to keep their passengers flying (the hypocrisy boggles) Unfortunately for them the sickout did not happen. Everybody worked normally, the sight of TT on TV trying to explain this one away was a TreaT.
Negotiation is the only way out of this. Several prominent analysts in HKG have stated CX is winning the posturing war but at the end of the day they have to ask themselves why their pilots are so unhappy. Indeed! I believe the HKAOA have stated that as soon as the company provide the requested rostering data then the limited industrial action will cease and negotiations can continue. Why do they not provide this data? TT says it is just a media stunt. OK so call their bluff and give them the data, what do CX have to lose by doing so? Everybody else in the company would certainly be winners if they did commence negotiations in good faith. Come on CX do it.
And the next post gives an idea of what a member of the HKG traveling public thinks.
Negotiation is the only way out of this. Several prominent analysts in HKG have stated CX is winning the posturing war but at the end of the day they have to ask themselves why their pilots are so unhappy. Indeed! I believe the HKAOA have stated that as soon as the company provide the requested rostering data then the limited industrial action will cease and negotiations can continue. Why do they not provide this data? TT says it is just a media stunt. OK so call their bluff and give them the data, what do CX have to lose by doing so? Everybody else in the company would certainly be winners if they did commence negotiations in good faith. Come on CX do it.
And the next post gives an idea of what a member of the HKG traveling public thinks.
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Wednesday, August 8, 2001 SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Management should be held responsible for present crisis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was unacceptable for a large corporation like Cathay Pacific to sack 52 pilots.
I was born in Hong Kong. I feel that I have grown up with Cathay Pacific and I always felt it was the flagship of Hong Kong. Now the company's management have destroyed this feeling.
Looking at what has happened during the pilots' industrial action, I believe it was all caused by mismanagement at the airline. What the pilots are asking for is not what Cathay has claimed. Cathay management have been asking the public to believe the pilots are earning $3 million a year and still want a 30 per cent pay rise. No pilots are earning that amount of money and the 30 per cent is a manipulated figure.
What the pilots are really fighting for are - a better rostering system, so that like the rest of us they can have a life other than work, and a fair pay system for both A-scale and B-scale pilots. I am sure the pilots are flexible and willing to meet Cathay halfway. So why did management halt negotiations even before the deadline of industrial action set by the union?
The pilots should have the right to fight for what they feel they deserve and should not have been penalised because of this limited industrial action. If Cathay Pacific was not short of pilots and aircraft, it would not have experienced the problems it did during Typhoon Utor. The company has tried to expand too quickly without having enough manpower and aircraft to do the job. Pilots are human. As I learned from a production management course, a company should only expect to get about 70 per cent productivity from a member of staff. If a company tries to get 100 per cent productivity, employees will fall ill and in the long run, productivity will be adversely affected.
The airline needs people with basic management skills to run the company. If it does not change its management style, it will not just lose the trust of its pilots. Other members of staff will become disillusioned. And it will damage the image and reputation that the company has built up over the years.
ALICE LAI
Sai Kung
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Management should be held responsible for present crisis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was unacceptable for a large corporation like Cathay Pacific to sack 52 pilots.
I was born in Hong Kong. I feel that I have grown up with Cathay Pacific and I always felt it was the flagship of Hong Kong. Now the company's management have destroyed this feeling.
Looking at what has happened during the pilots' industrial action, I believe it was all caused by mismanagement at the airline. What the pilots are asking for is not what Cathay has claimed. Cathay management have been asking the public to believe the pilots are earning $3 million a year and still want a 30 per cent pay rise. No pilots are earning that amount of money and the 30 per cent is a manipulated figure.
What the pilots are really fighting for are - a better rostering system, so that like the rest of us they can have a life other than work, and a fair pay system for both A-scale and B-scale pilots. I am sure the pilots are flexible and willing to meet Cathay halfway. So why did management halt negotiations even before the deadline of industrial action set by the union?
The pilots should have the right to fight for what they feel they deserve and should not have been penalised because of this limited industrial action. If Cathay Pacific was not short of pilots and aircraft, it would not have experienced the problems it did during Typhoon Utor. The company has tried to expand too quickly without having enough manpower and aircraft to do the job. Pilots are human. As I learned from a production management course, a company should only expect to get about 70 per cent productivity from a member of staff. If a company tries to get 100 per cent productivity, employees will fall ill and in the long run, productivity will be adversely affected.
The airline needs people with basic management skills to run the company. If it does not change its management style, it will not just lose the trust of its pilots. Other members of staff will become disillusioned. And it will damage the image and reputation that the company has built up over the years.
ALICE LAI
Sai Kung
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Dismayed
Negotiation requires good faith on both sides. Please don't try and tell us the AOA are squeaky clean. It's simply not true. Call off the 'limited industrial action' and get round the table.
The letter is pathetic and you know it. The vast majority of HK Chinese (in fact I have yet to meet one) care little for the plight of CX aircrew and I suspect Alice Lai or whatever her real name had the script provided. Too many buzzwords Alice!
Negotiation requires good faith on both sides. Please don't try and tell us the AOA are squeaky clean. It's simply not true. Call off the 'limited industrial action' and get round the table.
The letter is pathetic and you know it. The vast majority of HK Chinese (in fact I have yet to meet one) care little for the plight of CX aircrew and I suspect Alice Lai or whatever her real name had the script provided. Too many buzzwords Alice!
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Oh GFI, I mean Snake Hips, you crack me up. "I suspect Alice Lai or whatever her real name had the script provided. Too many buzzwords Alice!"
Now that's the pot calling the kettle black...
Now that's the pot calling the kettle black...
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Colin, why is that if CX mangers (sic) post scripted messages to the SCMP and others, it's considered legit, but if the AOA does (and I'm not saying that "Alice's" letter is AOA) it's a gorilla (sic) tactic?
Just curious.
Just curious.
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Dismayed, I didn't mean with the CO I meant at the ports that are now being affected by the action being taken. I'm not saying what the pilots are doing is right or wrong or for the company for that matter. But now that other peoples livelihoods are being affected/taken away as a result of the action I was hoping that should it come to it that these people would get some support from the pilots, is that too much to hope for! 