Greedy Pilots !!!!!
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Greedy Pilots !!!!!
“GREEDY PILOTS” Article in SCMP 13 Dec.
We,ve taken your leave.
We,ve made you work more hours for less.
We’ve reduced all your benefits.
We’ve forced you, under threat of dismissal, to take pay cuts for 3 years by telling big fibs.
We’ve diluted the Flight safety margins because we like taking risks to make more money.
We like our “flexible” rostering system, so we are not going to change it.
We will continue to disrupt your personal lives because we don’t care about you.
WHY ALL THIS--------BECAUSE I’VE GOT MY FERRARI, WE DON’T LIKE PILOTS, AND NO ONE IS MORE GREEDY THAN US.
Love David and Co.
PS. Just the sort of article to get the boys back on side with harmony and dedication, NOT. I’m so so stressed. Christmas at home after all then.
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I couldn't agree more.
It makes my blood boil to read such rubbish. The usual style of SCMP article... big head line and no factual substance. Where do they get these reporters from? My guess is they must be short of staff too!
Loved the picture of Tony T. Makes you want to puke. Lets have a vote of no confidence in our "leaders of lies" at the next EGM.
It makes my blood boil to read such rubbish. The usual style of SCMP article... big head line and no factual substance. Where do they get these reporters from? My guess is they must be short of staff too!
Loved the picture of Tony T. Makes you want to puke. Lets have a vote of no confidence in our "leaders of lies" at the next EGM.
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Why does the corporate spokesperson always say " pay, money, Pay " The issuse is all about rostering practices and not being able to plan anything.
The situation has become, if it is a working day you are available for the entire 24 hour period! new code in the roster will be R24/7
That is okay for a fireman, he only works 90 days a year! We are working 21-22 days per month!
It is time for the AOA and all pilots to educate the public and our fellow employees that the issue is not a pay dispute.
The situation has become, if it is a working day you are available for the entire 24 hour period! new code in the roster will be R24/7
That is okay for a fireman, he only works 90 days a year! We are working 21-22 days per month!
It is time for the AOA and all pilots to educate the public and our fellow employees that the issue is not a pay dispute.
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What an absolute farce todays article was, this Tony Tyler has showed just how amateur he can be.
I NO LONGER see my family, I am constantly flying.
I feel more and more fatigued from a disrupted roster.
I have had nothing but all my benefits slowly reduced to nothing.
I have stood by and watched friends being told 'Take this pay cut or be sacked'
I have seen my COS change without any notification to me whatsoever.
Shall I continue Mr Tyler? The list goes on...
Now you just tell my family that all I have done is take take take from you and been nothing but greedy. I DONT THINK SO.
One last thing Mr Tlyer I saw you blab off the Senior 'A' scale salaries (which I think the figure you quoted was BS) WHY DID YOU NOT QUOTE A TYPICAL 'B' scale salary? I will tell you why because the salaries are pathetic on 'B' scale. You failed to mention anything about the majority of the salaries that CX are paying. I also saw nothing about typical freighter salaries too, now that would have been a shocking figure wouldnt it? why didnt you tell the paper that a typical Freighter pilot based in London will clear about $27,000 HKD a month.
Just goes to show CX only want the public to see what they want them to see.
Makes me ashamed to be associated with such a man.
[This message has been edited by 777_Driver (edited 13 December 2000).]
I NO LONGER see my family, I am constantly flying.
I feel more and more fatigued from a disrupted roster.
I have had nothing but all my benefits slowly reduced to nothing.
I have stood by and watched friends being told 'Take this pay cut or be sacked'
I have seen my COS change without any notification to me whatsoever.
Shall I continue Mr Tyler? The list goes on...
Now you just tell my family that all I have done is take take take from you and been nothing but greedy. I DONT THINK SO.
One last thing Mr Tlyer I saw you blab off the Senior 'A' scale salaries (which I think the figure you quoted was BS) WHY DID YOU NOT QUOTE A TYPICAL 'B' scale salary? I will tell you why because the salaries are pathetic on 'B' scale. You failed to mention anything about the majority of the salaries that CX are paying. I also saw nothing about typical freighter salaries too, now that would have been a shocking figure wouldnt it? why didnt you tell the paper that a typical Freighter pilot based in London will clear about $27,000 HKD a month.
Just goes to show CX only want the public to see what they want them to see.
Makes me ashamed to be associated with such a man.
[This message has been edited by 777_Driver (edited 13 December 2000).]
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Hey fellows, I know I am no longer a part of the scene. The days of the Taipan inviting you to the penthouse for lunch or dinner and calling you by your first name are long gone. However, those happy days did exist and it pains me to see what this company has become in the employee/managment relationship. Nevertheless, I am puzzled by the fact that there are only a handfull of repetetive respondents out of a thousand plus aircrew, who venture to voice their opinions and suggestive commands on this website?
[This message has been edited by HotDog (edited 13 December 2000).]
[This message has been edited by HotDog (edited 13 December 2000).]
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Mr. Tyler either has absolutely no understanding of the issues at hand or else he is being deliberately disingenuous and indulging in the lowest form of media manipulation to sway public opinion. If the former, then he has no right mouthing off to the press and if the latter then he deserves everything he is going to get.
The third possibility is that, for some insane reason, he (under orders) is trying to provoke a sickout/strike/further industrial action in order to achieve what has probably been a long term goal - namely to provide the excuse to fire the lot of us and re-hire the desperados who they mistakenly believe are going to come galloping back in droves. I say insane because that will not happen. There will be a few, maybe even a few hundred, but to get the airline back in shape will take years (if it ever happens) and the current expansion plans will be kicked into touch forever. Great idea guys! Whose brainwave was that?
The third possibility is that, for some insane reason, he (under orders) is trying to provoke a sickout/strike/further industrial action in order to achieve what has probably been a long term goal - namely to provide the excuse to fire the lot of us and re-hire the desperados who they mistakenly believe are going to come galloping back in droves. I say insane because that will not happen. There will be a few, maybe even a few hundred, but to get the airline back in shape will take years (if it ever happens) and the current expansion plans will be kicked into touch forever. Great idea guys! Whose brainwave was that?
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It was good to finally see an accurate account of the issues by a member of the Hong Kong media. RTHK stated that the current dispute at Cathay Pacific was regarding rostering practises. Now stating the truth wasn’t that hard was it?
If the SCMP had an ounce of integrity it would make some attempt to right its inaccuracy’s from the 13th Dec.
Secondly, quoting PPRUNE (full of anonymous contributors) is also very poor journalism. What is stopping a reporter from contributing to the forum at PPRUNE whatever he or she desires only to then print it in the SCMP. The SCMP has yet again shown itself as an extremely unprofessional and inaccurate newspaper.
If the SCMP had an ounce of integrity it would make some attempt to right its inaccuracy’s from the 13th Dec.
Secondly, quoting PPRUNE (full of anonymous contributors) is also very poor journalism. What is stopping a reporter from contributing to the forum at PPRUNE whatever he or she desires only to then print it in the SCMP. The SCMP has yet again shown itself as an extremely unprofessional and inaccurate newspaper.
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Of course Tony Tyler is being disingenuous, that's his job, and very well he's doing it at the moment. However, it's the SCMP's job, via it's reporters, to give a balanced and true report of events. This they are not doing. It would appear to be far easier to simply reprint the Cathay press release.
When Tyler accuses the pilots of being greedy, he perhaps forgets that, for a based, A scale Captain, the figures paint a different picture. 1994, 16% paycut. 1995, no more cost of living, let alone a pay rise. 1999, a 28% pay cut over three years. By next year this will mean a salary, in real terms, of about 40% of that in 1993.
Doesn't sound too greedy to me, Tony. Have you taken the same pay cut? I'll take three million a year any time you're willing to give it to me. Arrrrr, yes! The stock options. Mustn't forget them. They are going to recoup all my losses, aren't they? Well no, actually. Not much chance of them doubling, not the way you and your fellow directors are running the company.
Ever since the all singing, all dancing, light shows of the early 90's, the other airlines that Cathay uses to show that we are grossly overpaid, have changed. One by one, they have dropped by the wayside, as their remuneration has gone up and ours has gone down. Do you really believe, Tony, that B scales are at the top end of the market, plus 10%. You really must get out more. For a B scaler to have a provident fund worth retiring on, he will have to work until he makes even the cabin attendents in America look young.
I will go on working for this company, but don't expect me to like it. When I'm on the aeroplane, I'll do my proffesional best to get them to their destination, on time and safely. Because they pay my salary, Tony, not you. For the rest of the time the phone stays firmly off the hook.
A couple of years ago, at a retirement party, a very senior pilot was saying goodbye. He related, that Turnbull had told him that it was because of people like him that the company was the way it is today. He replied." No, Mr Turnbull. The company is the way it is today, because of people like YOU!"
If you're reading this, SCMP, how about a little checking of the facts before you print. If you're reading this, Tony, go and look in the mirror and say," I'm not telling lies."
I thought so. Couldn't quite meet your eyes in the mirror, could you?
When Tyler accuses the pilots of being greedy, he perhaps forgets that, for a based, A scale Captain, the figures paint a different picture. 1994, 16% paycut. 1995, no more cost of living, let alone a pay rise. 1999, a 28% pay cut over three years. By next year this will mean a salary, in real terms, of about 40% of that in 1993.
Doesn't sound too greedy to me, Tony. Have you taken the same pay cut? I'll take three million a year any time you're willing to give it to me. Arrrrr, yes! The stock options. Mustn't forget them. They are going to recoup all my losses, aren't they? Well no, actually. Not much chance of them doubling, not the way you and your fellow directors are running the company.
Ever since the all singing, all dancing, light shows of the early 90's, the other airlines that Cathay uses to show that we are grossly overpaid, have changed. One by one, they have dropped by the wayside, as their remuneration has gone up and ours has gone down. Do you really believe, Tony, that B scales are at the top end of the market, plus 10%. You really must get out more. For a B scaler to have a provident fund worth retiring on, he will have to work until he makes even the cabin attendents in America look young.
I will go on working for this company, but don't expect me to like it. When I'm on the aeroplane, I'll do my proffesional best to get them to their destination, on time and safely. Because they pay my salary, Tony, not you. For the rest of the time the phone stays firmly off the hook.
A couple of years ago, at a retirement party, a very senior pilot was saying goodbye. He related, that Turnbull had told him that it was because of people like him that the company was the way it is today. He replied." No, Mr Turnbull. The company is the way it is today, because of people like YOU!"
If you're reading this, SCMP, how about a little checking of the facts before you print. If you're reading this, Tony, go and look in the mirror and say," I'm not telling lies."
I thought so. Couldn't quite meet your eyes in the mirror, could you?
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People..people.... TT and all the managers are fighting for their jobs. When Cathay have two 'strikes' in just over a year the public will start to look at who is managing this screwed up airline. The managers will come under scrutiny....they are **** scared and fighting for their jobs. They will say anything to anybody at the moment...it is time not to trust a caged animal as they are dangerous. Don't take their threats seriously
..keep cool and watch them sweat.
..keep cool and watch them sweat.
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Remember the advice,
"beware and stay clear of the corporate stress".
It's their problem, of their making, now they have to sort it out.
NOW is the only time to put MAX pressure on to get an acceptable solution for the next 20 years. There will NOT EVER be an opportunity like we have now to redress (in part), the recent decimation of the Airline pilot profession.
It's not easy, and we don't like doing it, but now is the time, and we have to do what we have to do.
"beware and stay clear of the corporate stress".
It's their problem, of their making, now they have to sort it out.
NOW is the only time to put MAX pressure on to get an acceptable solution for the next 20 years. There will NOT EVER be an opportunity like we have now to redress (in part), the recent decimation of the Airline pilot profession.
It's not easy, and we don't like doing it, but now is the time, and we have to do what we have to do.
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From the General rumours forum.... UK charter aircraft are inbound to HK to take up the slack.
At what cost?
ALL CX Shareholders take note! We have not even talked about industial action. The SCMP and the CX publicity machine seem to want us to strike over Xmas?? seems mighty strange to me.
Sorry TT/DT/NPR , but you are not going to blame the sorry state of the airline and its inability to operate the schedule on industrial action.
Dear SCMP, please compare our rostering system with those of our major one world partners..AA & BA . Our rostering system was never any good and it hasn't really changed in years. Get hold of any BA/AA pilot and say the phrase " assigned roster" to him/her. The reaction will be vey amusing.
To the Public....Do you really want to fly with an airline that shows this much disrespect to it's employees in the local tabloid?
Do you really think that crew reading the rubbish in the SCMP should even consider getting on board an aircraft with 350+ pax on board with stress levels through the roof. I have seen this first hand in the last two days and it is VERY DANGEROUS.
Cathay Pacific management have always stated their "right to manage" .Well it's about time they took the reponsibility that goes with that right.
The situation that the airline finds itself in now is purely the reponsibilty of management. Trying to put the blame for this current manpower shortage debacle on a non management employee group is appalling.
One day very soon the management at Cathay Pacific (at the highest levels) will be asked to account for their treachery to their customers , shareholders and employees.
I ask anyone in any position to do so, to bring that day closer.
J/S
At what cost?
ALL CX Shareholders take note! We have not even talked about industial action. The SCMP and the CX publicity machine seem to want us to strike over Xmas?? seems mighty strange to me.
Sorry TT/DT/NPR , but you are not going to blame the sorry state of the airline and its inability to operate the schedule on industrial action.
Dear SCMP, please compare our rostering system with those of our major one world partners..AA & BA . Our rostering system was never any good and it hasn't really changed in years. Get hold of any BA/AA pilot and say the phrase " assigned roster" to him/her. The reaction will be vey amusing.
To the Public....Do you really want to fly with an airline that shows this much disrespect to it's employees in the local tabloid?
Do you really think that crew reading the rubbish in the SCMP should even consider getting on board an aircraft with 350+ pax on board with stress levels through the roof. I have seen this first hand in the last two days and it is VERY DANGEROUS.
Cathay Pacific management have always stated their "right to manage" .Well it's about time they took the reponsibility that goes with that right.
The situation that the airline finds itself in now is purely the reponsibilty of management. Trying to put the blame for this current manpower shortage debacle on a non management employee group is appalling.
One day very soon the management at Cathay Pacific (at the highest levels) will be asked to account for their treachery to their customers , shareholders and employees.
I ask anyone in any position to do so, to bring that day closer.
J/S
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I think that there is a more simple motivation for all of this. Greed.!
This company is making Mega profits this year and as a result will have to distribute a good size chunk of change to their employees, in the form of profit share.
If however they can provoke one group to disrupt schedules, those costs can be greatly exaggerated and that means less to pay out to the staff. During the last sick out, all the experts put the costs at over a billion dollars. I've never seen Cathay admit to it having cost them very much. Why not engineer industrial action in reverse, it could save them millions.
I cannot comprehend that the company is almost asking us to go out, they are the one's who keep mentioning strikes not the AOA.
I have to ask myself why? when they are making such huge profits, it simply does not make any sense to conduct a business in this fashion. Especially in the service industry. But then nothing that this management has done since 1994 has made any sense
This company is making Mega profits this year and as a result will have to distribute a good size chunk of change to their employees, in the form of profit share.
If however they can provoke one group to disrupt schedules, those costs can be greatly exaggerated and that means less to pay out to the staff. During the last sick out, all the experts put the costs at over a billion dollars. I've never seen Cathay admit to it having cost them very much. Why not engineer industrial action in reverse, it could save them millions.
I cannot comprehend that the company is almost asking us to go out, they are the one's who keep mentioning strikes not the AOA.
I have to ask myself why? when they are making such huge profits, it simply does not make any sense to conduct a business in this fashion. Especially in the service industry. But then nothing that this management has done since 1994 has made any sense
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I don't think Fodder's theory stands up. The company has an interest in maximising profit. However, the idea that the company would like to provoke a major once-and-for-all industrial action is not so far-fetched. There was certainly a "sack the lot" plan drawn up in 1994. It woulf take govt approval, which is why public perception is so important.
The public see flight crew as "greedy" etc. What they don't understand is CX senior management are all hand-picked by old school tie types in London and have (with a few exceptions) very similar personalities. They nearly all have an inability to empathise. We can all see the result.
True story... The scene: a school sports day on HK island. Two 7 yr olds pull ahead of the rest of the field in the 100m sprint. The one who comes narrowly second bursts into tears and runs up to *a certain member of management* (re-edited *this* bit) - "I'm sorry daddy, I'm sorry. I'll try harder next time".
[This message has been edited by Hemlock (edited 17 December 2000).]
The public see flight crew as "greedy" etc. What they don't understand is CX senior management are all hand-picked by old school tie types in London and have (with a few exceptions) very similar personalities. They nearly all have an inability to empathise. We can all see the result.
True story... The scene: a school sports day on HK island. Two 7 yr olds pull ahead of the rest of the field in the 100m sprint. The one who comes narrowly second bursts into tears and runs up to *a certain member of management* (re-edited *this* bit) - "I'm sorry daddy, I'm sorry. I'll try harder next time".
[This message has been edited by Hemlock (edited 17 December 2000).]