Freighter/Passenger Integration
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Fossil fuel, if you check with Dave R., you will realise, that you cannot bid across to USAB. You can only bid mainline and once accepted, then hope a North American basing is open. Oh, and no turning back if you find out that a N.A. basing is not available after your accepted. Just another twist to make our lives more difficult.
Goonybird, why are you so upset with the ASL guy's. Again, you and others are terribly wrong for blaming them for CX management’s blunders. If I were an ASL F/O of course I would stay ASL and get my command early. Wouldn't you? Remember, the ASL guy's are only the symptom of the problem not the cause! As for salary, with provident fund it's just over 71K USD to start or 105K Cnd. and that’s not bad, even for a yank. For a Canuck, it's better than AC short or long term.
Goonybird, why are you so upset with the ASL guy's. Again, you and others are terribly wrong for blaming them for CX management’s blunders. If I were an ASL F/O of course I would stay ASL and get my command early. Wouldn't you? Remember, the ASL guy's are only the symptom of the problem not the cause! As for salary, with provident fund it's just over 71K USD to start or 105K Cnd. and that’s not bad, even for a yank. For a Canuck, it's better than AC short or long term.
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CPDUDE,
First off, I never would have joined ASL.I can't understand how anyone could join a company designed solely to undermine one's own profession! Secondly your provident fund is meant as a retirement package, not a salary supplement.In other words you are spending your retirement!!
I'm looking at the contract and I read 75,756 as year 1 Cdn based freighter F/O,year one U.S based freighter f/o 59,232.Plus the 3.5% increment just awarded of course.
Yes, that is better than year 1 at AC, however look a few years ahead when it comes time to retire...you are obviosly spending the provident fund as salary..the ac guy can spend his entire salary because he has a defined benefit pension to count on in retirement. Not to mention that he can pick and choose his roster though his entire career, and has a far superior travel plan! Not saying CX doesn't have some benefits(when living in H.K) but make sure you compare the entire package not just year one salary. An A320 capt at ac makes more than a 744 capt at CXF.
My beef is with the original ASL guys and the management who created it, not those who join CXF.
First off, I never would have joined ASL.I can't understand how anyone could join a company designed solely to undermine one's own profession! Secondly your provident fund is meant as a retirement package, not a salary supplement.In other words you are spending your retirement!!
I'm looking at the contract and I read 75,756 as year 1 Cdn based freighter F/O,year one U.S based freighter f/o 59,232.Plus the 3.5% increment just awarded of course.
Yes, that is better than year 1 at AC, however look a few years ahead when it comes time to retire...you are obviosly spending the provident fund as salary..the ac guy can spend his entire salary because he has a defined benefit pension to count on in retirement. Not to mention that he can pick and choose his roster though his entire career, and has a far superior travel plan! Not saying CX doesn't have some benefits(when living in H.K) but make sure you compare the entire package not just year one salary. An A320 capt at ac makes more than a 744 capt at CXF.
My beef is with the original ASL guys and the management who created it, not those who join CXF.
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Cpdude... No it's just under 71K as quoted!
If your happy to include your 15.5% provident fund as salary that's fine but I hope you've got rich folks!
I'd be very cautious about spending that money and you should actually be topping it up with at least 10% of your own funds if not another 15% to provide for a reasonable retirement!!
If your happy to include your 15.5% provident fund as salary that's fine but I hope you've got rich folks!
I'd be very cautious about spending that money and you should actually be topping it up with at least 10% of your own funds if not another 15% to provide for a reasonable retirement!!
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Gooneybird <<ASLr my heart bleeds for you!!The AOA has more important things to do than negotiate for you. Next time don't jump the seniority list to command. >>
Very interesting comment, Gooneybird, and it does says a lot about why the AOA is totally ineffective as a collective bargaining agent for the Cathay pilots. First of all, you play right into the hands of management by being derisive. Disunity is what allows management to beat us (collectively) over the head. If I am hearing this right, you are agreeing that it is ok for the CXF pilots to work for the freighter C scale. Would that be akin to the A scale agreeing with the concept of a B scale or the AOA taking no position when ASL was formed? If the AOA does not negotiate for the CXF pilots am I to assume the B scale F/Os who are taking commands on the freighter are considered to be, well, scabs; not worthy of representation? Do you think that by having a C scale, it will in some way elevate your pay scale? Has the B scale allowed the A scale to get decent raises? It seems to me that when different scales are allowed, everything gets dragged to the middle. If the freighter scale is kept very low, I can’t see management handing out A and B raises when they know they don’t have to. And on a personal note, Gooney, you may be making a serious error of assumption. Your knee-jerk reaction to my post is immature, and not well thought out. Although I can relate to blowing off steam, I think you ought to give this one a bit more thought.
Very interesting comment, Gooneybird, and it does says a lot about why the AOA is totally ineffective as a collective bargaining agent for the Cathay pilots. First of all, you play right into the hands of management by being derisive. Disunity is what allows management to beat us (collectively) over the head. If I am hearing this right, you are agreeing that it is ok for the CXF pilots to work for the freighter C scale. Would that be akin to the A scale agreeing with the concept of a B scale or the AOA taking no position when ASL was formed? If the AOA does not negotiate for the CXF pilots am I to assume the B scale F/Os who are taking commands on the freighter are considered to be, well, scabs; not worthy of representation? Do you think that by having a C scale, it will in some way elevate your pay scale? Has the B scale allowed the A scale to get decent raises? It seems to me that when different scales are allowed, everything gets dragged to the middle. If the freighter scale is kept very low, I can’t see management handing out A and B raises when they know they don’t have to. And on a personal note, Gooney, you may be making a serious error of assumption. Your knee-jerk reaction to my post is immature, and not well thought out. Although I can relate to blowing off steam, I think you ought to give this one a bit more thought.
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There is no pilot shortage in the US. It is still very competitive. CXF guys hired by United last fall won't start class until May, maybe. $71k for a turboprop guy is a huge pay raise while they are waiting for their real job to come along. I doubt there's much wrong with their resumes given they are hired out of the freighters after they gain some heavy time. And how many 2nd years guys are in the RHS of a 767 in the US? Not many.
