Air HongKong
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATTENTION: ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN THIS VENTURE
Very simply...DON'T DO IT!
This is without doubt the most cynical attempt at undermining the pilot profession ever tried by the discredited CX management. The fact that they are putting it under the AHK banner, and locating it in Singapore shows just how lacking in integrity they now are.
For those who are contemplating this job, consider:
1. Barely livable salary
2. Non-existant housing allowance (...you will live in the YMCA if your lucky)
3. No proper travel allowance.
4. 'Incentive' based flying allowance (read: worked to death)
5. Managed by G.O. (the most venal and self-serving man in the industry).
6. Based in Singapore, which lacks the most basic of worker protections (even less than HongKong..which is saying something).
Gentlemen, it is assured that should you take this job, you will live to regret it. You will live like a pauper, and be worked to death. Any complaint and you will be summararily fired.
There are proper employers and proper jobs. This is NOT one of them.
Very simply...DON'T DO IT!
This is without doubt the most cynical attempt at undermining the pilot profession ever tried by the discredited CX management. The fact that they are putting it under the AHK banner, and locating it in Singapore shows just how lacking in integrity they now are.
For those who are contemplating this job, consider:
1. Barely livable salary
2. Non-existant housing allowance (...you will live in the YMCA if your lucky)
3. No proper travel allowance.
4. 'Incentive' based flying allowance (read: worked to death)
5. Managed by G.O. (the most venal and self-serving man in the industry).
6. Based in Singapore, which lacks the most basic of worker protections (even less than HongKong..which is saying something).
Gentlemen, it is assured that should you take this job, you will live to regret it. You will live like a pauper, and be worked to death. Any complaint and you will be summararily fired.
There are proper employers and proper jobs. This is NOT one of them.
Fool me Once, Fool me Twice...but don't let me be be lonely tonight.
Unless they wise up and base people in OZ they won't get but a simple simian.
There is probably a fair chance they will get quality folk (even for peanuts) if they face up to the fact that some people will work for petty cash between mowing the lawn and going fishing as long as they can do it as a hobby. But that may also be a big ask when it is all back of the clock with no view.
As a career .... forget it.
Even the retirees that need the cash to feed the alimony buffets won't be lining up.
HD...you've obviously flown with GO
Unless they wise up and base people in OZ they won't get but a simple simian.
There is probably a fair chance they will get quality folk (even for peanuts) if they face up to the fact that some people will work for petty cash between mowing the lawn and going fishing as long as they can do it as a hobby. But that may also be a big ask when it is all back of the clock with no view.
As a career .... forget it.
Even the retirees that need the cash to feed the alimony buffets won't be lining up.
HD...you've obviously flown with GO
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sorry to jump in when maybe it is none of my business, but I feel I have to make an observation, as an interested SLF based in HK...
I am an expat in the sense that I moved here from the UK for the employer I now have (a big multinational). However, neither I, nor any of my "expat" colleagues get housing allowance or cost of living adjustments, and roughly 30% of my "pay" is "incentive" - dependent on the results I deliver. My salary is totally in line with what my "local" colleagues get.
The days when "expats" got special treatment, at huge cost to their employers, simply because they were "expats", not because they were inherently any better at the job, are pretty much gone in every other industry - why should flying planes be any different?
I am an expat in the sense that I moved here from the UK for the employer I now have (a big multinational). However, neither I, nor any of my "expat" colleagues get housing allowance or cost of living adjustments, and roughly 30% of my "pay" is "incentive" - dependent on the results I deliver. My salary is totally in line with what my "local" colleagues get.
The days when "expats" got special treatment, at huge cost to their employers, simply because they were "expats", not because they were inherently any better at the job, are pretty much gone in every other industry - why should flying planes be any different?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christep,
You are welcome to jump in here and throw in your 2 cents worth.
Your post was more informative and real world than the childish "we must be treated like royalty" diatribe from the aviating ppruners.
75000 USD is approx what will be paid to SIN based pilots to fly 3-4 nights per week for DHL.
HFX has already made the comment about monkeys and peanuts. But maybe paying more peanuts just gets you greedier monkeys.
Fool me once,
Have you ever lived in SIN. Could you quote the price of a rental appartment. Do you know what sort of tax system there is.
Maybe you could tell me how DHL in SIN would compare to Jetblue based in NYC for example.
But more importantly, if there are many qualified pilots willing to apply to DHL (and there are), then dont you think the market has spoken.
No one is forcing you to apply to DHL.
Why are you so wound up about it.
You are welcome to jump in here and throw in your 2 cents worth.
Your post was more informative and real world than the childish "we must be treated like royalty" diatribe from the aviating ppruners.
75000 USD is approx what will be paid to SIN based pilots to fly 3-4 nights per week for DHL.
HFX has already made the comment about monkeys and peanuts. But maybe paying more peanuts just gets you greedier monkeys.
Fool me once,
Have you ever lived in SIN. Could you quote the price of a rental appartment. Do you know what sort of tax system there is.
Maybe you could tell me how DHL in SIN would compare to Jetblue based in NYC for example.
But more importantly, if there are many qualified pilots willing to apply to DHL (and there are), then dont you think the market has spoken.
No one is forcing you to apply to DHL.
Why are you so wound up about it.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...tell you what FatEric, let's just wait a year and then discuss the turnover at the DHL salt mine shall we...? FYI, I have spent the past 21 years in and around Asia (sin,hk,bkk). For a North American, European or other western national to just 'pitch up' in Singapore and think they can settle down on the salary being offered at DHL...who are YOU trying to kid. Unless they are single, don't like socialising, can survive on 1 1/2 meals a day, and have NO need to put anything away for retirement....then sure, it will be a GREAT JOB...!
There is a certain value to the piloting profession. The sad thing is there will always be people like yourselves who don't value themselves and their skills very highly. You only have so many hours of work available in your lifetime.....I suggest that you maximise what each of them is worth.
Basically, I suggest that if this job is in any way appealing to you....you need another profession.
There is a certain value to the piloting profession. The sad thing is there will always be people like yourselves who don't value themselves and their skills very highly. You only have so many hours of work available in your lifetime.....I suggest that you maximise what each of them is worth.
Basically, I suggest that if this job is in any way appealing to you....you need another profession.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try answering his post with reasoning rather than rhetoric and you may convert him to your way of thinking. Insult him and you have no f ing hope. If we are to protect our conditions then we need all on side……..engage brain before mouth usually works.
Fat Eric, admittedly the last time I was in Singapore was 2000 looking for apartments so as to take up the SQ 777 deal. I have worked in Asia since 1993 so I reckon I know what I am talking about. Prices may now not be relevant as Singapore has had a big wake up pill in that few have found they really need any manufactured goods from them anymore……cheaper elsewhere to set up……abundance of cheap coolie labour in the region hence the devaluation of the Sing $ to try and get back the edge……..I suspect to no avail and their day in the sun is over. Sorry, rambling on…..you will be lucky to get an apartment close to the airport and inhabitable for less than $5000 (all prices quoted in Sing $) a month, you will be even luckier to get pwr and tel + other essentials set up for another 5000 and don’t forget rental bond which, if you get back, you can count yourself as one of the few as most of my mates have been robbed blind. Apartment will have to be near the a/port as there is no way in hell you will be able to afford a car. A social life will cost you a mint….forget going out for a good night out at a western restaurant with booze for less than $200…..make that 300 if your missus drinks like mine…..
Check out far east forum for extensive comments re SQ cargo operation about 3 months back……..all relevant to you and I suspect you will see that all is not so rosy.
Regards
FW
Fat Eric, admittedly the last time I was in Singapore was 2000 looking for apartments so as to take up the SQ 777 deal. I have worked in Asia since 1993 so I reckon I know what I am talking about. Prices may now not be relevant as Singapore has had a big wake up pill in that few have found they really need any manufactured goods from them anymore……cheaper elsewhere to set up……abundance of cheap coolie labour in the region hence the devaluation of the Sing $ to try and get back the edge……..I suspect to no avail and their day in the sun is over. Sorry, rambling on…..you will be lucky to get an apartment close to the airport and inhabitable for less than $5000 (all prices quoted in Sing $) a month, you will be even luckier to get pwr and tel + other essentials set up for another 5000 and don’t forget rental bond which, if you get back, you can count yourself as one of the few as most of my mates have been robbed blind. Apartment will have to be near the a/port as there is no way in hell you will be able to afford a car. A social life will cost you a mint….forget going out for a good night out at a western restaurant with booze for less than $200…..make that 300 if your missus drinks like mine…..
Check out far east forum for extensive comments re SQ cargo operation about 3 months back……..all relevant to you and I suspect you will see that all is not so rosy.
Regards
FW
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..uh, firewall....how exactly did I 'insult' him...? and as for 'rhetoric', your post basically confirmed the very issues I raised. My only 'personal' comment that I directed to Fat Eric was that if he thought the DHL job was reasonable, then perhaps he needs a different profession. I stand by that comment, and it wasn't intended as an insult. If we REALLY want to protect our profession, perhaps those who are willing to sell it short should be forced out....one way or the other....just as other professional groups do I might add.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fool me once,
I am still interested to know why people who are not applying to AHK are so keen to be involved in a debate about its merits. What interest do you have in the turnover at AHK? Turnover is often unrelated to income. Are you suggesting company’s just shell out more dollars so bandits like you will stay? That is called ransom.
You have no right to tell others to leave the profession simply because they have an agenda different to yours. If your guiding light is money then so be it but don’t expect others to be so driven by only one issue. The harsh reality is, it is people with precisely your attitude that will be forced out of the game as fewer incumbent carriers employ crew on the old pay rates and more carriers expand using franchise outfits paying lower wages. The lion’s share of pilots in the US is being employed by Jetblue, Frontier, and Airtran etc – not the majors. If you cant cope with this reality then don’t let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.
DHL will be flooded with applicants and as I have said, the market has a much louder voice than you or I.
Fire Wall,
I recently left SIN where I worked for SQ. As someone has already mentioned on the far east thread regarding SIN, new apartments are available with 3 BR, pool etc for under 2000 SD – some were living in new condos for 1700 SD – per month. 5000!!! Would rent you a 3500 sq foot penthouse with 5 BR, 2 balconies, 4 bathrooms etc – I once lived in such a place and it now rents for 5500 SD.
Utilities will cost you less than 1000 easily, more like 500 if you are careful (in a 3 BR). I am not sure what restaurants you eat at but 200 SD is dinner and drinks at raffles.
Kids will blow the budget for education – as will cars.
Lets at least debate using factual information.
I am still interested to know why people who are not applying to AHK are so keen to be involved in a debate about its merits. What interest do you have in the turnover at AHK? Turnover is often unrelated to income. Are you suggesting company’s just shell out more dollars so bandits like you will stay? That is called ransom.
You have no right to tell others to leave the profession simply because they have an agenda different to yours. If your guiding light is money then so be it but don’t expect others to be so driven by only one issue. The harsh reality is, it is people with precisely your attitude that will be forced out of the game as fewer incumbent carriers employ crew on the old pay rates and more carriers expand using franchise outfits paying lower wages. The lion’s share of pilots in the US is being employed by Jetblue, Frontier, and Airtran etc – not the majors. If you cant cope with this reality then don’t let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.
DHL will be flooded with applicants and as I have said, the market has a much louder voice than you or I.
Fire Wall,
I recently left SIN where I worked for SQ. As someone has already mentioned on the far east thread regarding SIN, new apartments are available with 3 BR, pool etc for under 2000 SD – some were living in new condos for 1700 SD – per month. 5000!!! Would rent you a 3500 sq foot penthouse with 5 BR, 2 balconies, 4 bathrooms etc – I once lived in such a place and it now rents for 5500 SD.
Utilities will cost you less than 1000 easily, more like 500 if you are careful (in a 3 BR). I am not sure what restaurants you eat at but 200 SD is dinner and drinks at raffles.
Kids will blow the budget for education – as will cars.
Lets at least debate using factual information.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmm......nice and measured FatEric. Firstly, you seem to think that I would only 'go' and join DHL if they paid me a 'bandit' salary....and that somehow my desire to earn a wage that represents my value is somehow 'outdated' and unreasonable.
What is so unreasonble about expecting 'responsible' employers to provide a salary and benefit package that allows an individual to do the following:
1. Buy a home
2. Support a wife and children
3. Educate those children
4. Provide for a comfortable retirement
5. Enjoy some time off (ie: afford a holiday once in a while)
6. Afford to run a car
...etc...
The sad reality of the moment is that we are going through a period of time in the industry that sees the accountants running airlines with 'short-term' results as their main goal. This completely ignores the fact that in the long run, an airline will slowly spiral to their grave if they are constantly dealing with turn-over, low morale and the GUARANTEED results of a lowered safety record.
It is also a sad reality that there is a group of pilots who value themselves so poorly that they will ACCEPT what are UNDOUBTABLY unreasonable conditions. An airline like Southwest Airlines here in the US can use proper management techniques that result in a low cost basis, but still manage to provide amongst the highest salary and benefit packages in the industry. Perhaps you can explain why DHL seemingly can't...?
Fact is FatEric, you are trying to justify your own low self-esteem, and your decision to work for what is nothing more than indentured servitude. Whether or not you resent that conclusion is of no consequence, as the facts stand for themselves.
Incidentally, you mention that they are swamped with applications. I have an insight to what is really happening at their recruitment office, and I can assure you that they are having a GREAT deal of difficulty recruiting SUITABLE applicants.
FatEric, the answer is simple. If there weren't pilots who would do the job for penuary wages, the wages would rise.
You question why I am 'so worked' up about DHL......but I am more interested why you seem so adamant about defending it (...defending the indefensible).
BTW, your own costings on food, housing, car, school etc demonstrate that you wouild be going backwards financially from the moment you started.
To those pilots out there who don't want to find themselves in a VERY miserable situation, don't even consider this joke of a job.
What is so unreasonble about expecting 'responsible' employers to provide a salary and benefit package that allows an individual to do the following:
1. Buy a home
2. Support a wife and children
3. Educate those children
4. Provide for a comfortable retirement
5. Enjoy some time off (ie: afford a holiday once in a while)
6. Afford to run a car
...etc...
The sad reality of the moment is that we are going through a period of time in the industry that sees the accountants running airlines with 'short-term' results as their main goal. This completely ignores the fact that in the long run, an airline will slowly spiral to their grave if they are constantly dealing with turn-over, low morale and the GUARANTEED results of a lowered safety record.
It is also a sad reality that there is a group of pilots who value themselves so poorly that they will ACCEPT what are UNDOUBTABLY unreasonable conditions. An airline like Southwest Airlines here in the US can use proper management techniques that result in a low cost basis, but still manage to provide amongst the highest salary and benefit packages in the industry. Perhaps you can explain why DHL seemingly can't...?
Fact is FatEric, you are trying to justify your own low self-esteem, and your decision to work for what is nothing more than indentured servitude. Whether or not you resent that conclusion is of no consequence, as the facts stand for themselves.
Incidentally, you mention that they are swamped with applications. I have an insight to what is really happening at their recruitment office, and I can assure you that they are having a GREAT deal of difficulty recruiting SUITABLE applicants.
FatEric, the answer is simple. If there weren't pilots who would do the job for penuary wages, the wages would rise.
You question why I am 'so worked' up about DHL......but I am more interested why you seem so adamant about defending it (...defending the indefensible).
BTW, your own costings on food, housing, car, school etc demonstrate that you wouild be going backwards financially from the moment you started.
To those pilots out there who don't want to find themselves in a VERY miserable situation, don't even consider this joke of a job.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Auztraya
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed CHRISTEP,your two cents worth is welcome.However for someone whose indicated that the're not in the aviation game you've got a lot to say.about $5.60 worth at a glance.
Your comments about the changes in expats conditions may be valid,but you have not given us an idea as to how much your Multi National Company rewards you for you talents.
We are talking here about a company who will value their skilled workers by paying them enough to afford an apartment to live in and little else.I mentioned to a friend that you could supplement your income on days off by putting a patch over your eye getting into some old clothes and sit on the street corner with your hand out,but thats illegal I'm told.
Other Ozzies,like me who were granted interviews were quite excited by the prospects of AHK,until we read the conditions.Everything that fool me once says is right on.What their offering is an embarrassment to the industry.I,and other Ozzies that I know who were invited to Singers for an interview will certainly not be attending.It will be interesting to see what sort of people will be attending.
Fat Eric ,no one is asking to be "treated like royalty' and on the other hand we will not be treated like paupers and at best thats what AHK is offering.I know!,why don't they just employ locals,then they won't have to deal with ungrateful whingers like me.
FinallyChristep ,I see you live in Honkers,but would you have made your move from the UK to Singers with Wife and kids in tow on US$70k salary (and thats for a captain)?.
edited;$US not $S
Your comments about the changes in expats conditions may be valid,but you have not given us an idea as to how much your Multi National Company rewards you for you talents.
We are talking here about a company who will value their skilled workers by paying them enough to afford an apartment to live in and little else.I mentioned to a friend that you could supplement your income on days off by putting a patch over your eye getting into some old clothes and sit on the street corner with your hand out,but thats illegal I'm told.
Other Ozzies,like me who were granted interviews were quite excited by the prospects of AHK,until we read the conditions.Everything that fool me once says is right on.What their offering is an embarrassment to the industry.I,and other Ozzies that I know who were invited to Singers for an interview will certainly not be attending.It will be interesting to see what sort of people will be attending.
Fat Eric ,no one is asking to be "treated like royalty' and on the other hand we will not be treated like paupers and at best thats what AHK is offering.I know!,why don't they just employ locals,then they won't have to deal with ungrateful whingers like me.
FinallyChristep ,I see you live in Honkers,but would you have made your move from the UK to Singers with Wife and kids in tow on US$70k salary (and thats for a captain)?.
edited;$US not $S
Last edited by Thumbs up; 4th Mar 2004 at 03:50.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It isn't really the absolute salaries that I was commenting on - more the apparent expectation that there should be two different rates for the job, depending solely on whether you move from another country to do it... that's what I can't see any logic for.
If there is a sufficient supply of pilots in Singapore (or Hong Kong) then I see no reason why an employer should pay a premium to bring someone from somewhere else. And if there isn't a sufficient supply then surely the most logical thing to do is to raise the salaries of all pilots employed in Singapore until you reach the point where you do have enough applicants?
It seems to me, naively perhaps, that airline pilots are actually one of the most global of commodities - no language barriers (all speak English - yes, OK, I know that's not totally true), more or less complete standardisation of job specifications (flying an A340 for CX is much the same as flying one for any other airline), and so on.
By the way, as a sometime recipient, I do understand that the expat packages are nice to have - I came to HK on one 5 years ago, and at that time the company in its misguided generosity rented an apartment for me at HK$50,000 per month, and gave me a cost of living allowance on top of my UK salary. They did however also "hypotax" me as if I was still living in the UK. Yes the total package was substantially more than DHL apparently pays people for flying out of Singapore. Perhaps similar (from what I have read) to what a CX passenger captain of middling seniority would get, although without the travel perks and with a bigger tax hit. That was for having P&L responsibility for about US$150M of business a year and managing a couple of hundred people around the region.
But when the telecoms bubble burst (that being the business that I am) this extravagence was not sustainable any more. Now I rent my own place (for HK$20K, but soon to move downscale a bit further). Because of the hypotax impact I'm not much worse off in fact for the loss of allowances - I have an apartment that is more or less identical to the $50K one, albeit without the magnificent view.
As a sanity check on all of this, remember that the average household income in Hong Kong is under HK$20K per month and that people do bring up families quite comfortably on that. I don't have enough knowledge of Singapore to be able to comment specifically on how the numbers work there.
If there is a sufficient supply of pilots in Singapore (or Hong Kong) then I see no reason why an employer should pay a premium to bring someone from somewhere else. And if there isn't a sufficient supply then surely the most logical thing to do is to raise the salaries of all pilots employed in Singapore until you reach the point where you do have enough applicants?
It seems to me, naively perhaps, that airline pilots are actually one of the most global of commodities - no language barriers (all speak English - yes, OK, I know that's not totally true), more or less complete standardisation of job specifications (flying an A340 for CX is much the same as flying one for any other airline), and so on.
By the way, as a sometime recipient, I do understand that the expat packages are nice to have - I came to HK on one 5 years ago, and at that time the company in its misguided generosity rented an apartment for me at HK$50,000 per month, and gave me a cost of living allowance on top of my UK salary. They did however also "hypotax" me as if I was still living in the UK. Yes the total package was substantially more than DHL apparently pays people for flying out of Singapore. Perhaps similar (from what I have read) to what a CX passenger captain of middling seniority would get, although without the travel perks and with a bigger tax hit. That was for having P&L responsibility for about US$150M of business a year and managing a couple of hundred people around the region.
But when the telecoms bubble burst (that being the business that I am) this extravagence was not sustainable any more. Now I rent my own place (for HK$20K, but soon to move downscale a bit further). Because of the hypotax impact I'm not much worse off in fact for the loss of allowances - I have an apartment that is more or less identical to the $50K one, albeit without the magnificent view.
As a sanity check on all of this, remember that the average household income in Hong Kong is under HK$20K per month and that people do bring up families quite comfortably on that. I don't have enough knowledge of Singapore to be able to comment specifically on how the numbers work there.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fool me once,
There are thousands of pilots currently unemployed - especially in the US from major airline furlow's - with more to come recently announced. There are STILL pilots seeking employment from failed airlines such as Sabena, Swissair, Ansett.
The current generation of airliners are far easier to operate than the previous generation - many carriers of dubious quality are proving that every day - some with perfect safety records.
Would you consider that maybe your "value" has changed.
You are perfectly entitled to desire certain benefits from your employer - you have the freedom to chose where you work. If DHL do not provide you with a salary that enables you to own a house, a car and educate your children then dont apply. DHL is not the place for you. Simple.
You state your personal opinion as though it were fact. Why on earth would you infer that people applying for a position as a pilot would "undervalue themselves".
Thankyou for your concern about my self esteem - it is fine. I do not work for DHL and probably never will, but I know many fine colleagues seriously considering the position as we speak.
I am not defending DHL - I have nothing at all to do with them. I do see this case as an example of a wider trend within the industry of airline flying.
Perhaps you could explain to me how one "would be going backwards" based on the info I supplied.
There are thousands of pilots currently unemployed - especially in the US from major airline furlow's - with more to come recently announced. There are STILL pilots seeking employment from failed airlines such as Sabena, Swissair, Ansett.
The current generation of airliners are far easier to operate than the previous generation - many carriers of dubious quality are proving that every day - some with perfect safety records.
Would you consider that maybe your "value" has changed.
You are perfectly entitled to desire certain benefits from your employer - you have the freedom to chose where you work. If DHL do not provide you with a salary that enables you to own a house, a car and educate your children then dont apply. DHL is not the place for you. Simple.
You state your personal opinion as though it were fact. Why on earth would you infer that people applying for a position as a pilot would "undervalue themselves".
Thankyou for your concern about my self esteem - it is fine. I do not work for DHL and probably never will, but I know many fine colleagues seriously considering the position as we speak.
I am not defending DHL - I have nothing at all to do with them. I do see this case as an example of a wider trend within the industry of airline flying.
Perhaps you could explain to me how one "would be going backwards" based on the info I supplied.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fat Eric you replied
"Lets at least debate using factual information"
I clearly stated that the figures were relevant in yr 2000.
Further, I've never eaten at raffles but do enjoy a bottle of wine with my tucker....so a meal for two and a bottle of decent plonk and SGD 200 still stands....anywhere on Orchard rd and a decent bottle will start at SGD 60.....heaven forbid I may desire 2 bottles of gargle blaster.....close enough to SGD 300............ I figure when you are dead it tends to be for a long time.
If you wish to confine your social activities to the Salmanella stalls on the side of the road then that is your perogative.
Apartment prices were for Bayshaw park/Granville and surrounding area. I have no doubt that they have gone down......explained all the reasoning to you in my previous post ....but I doubt that they have gone down to the extent you quoted in an area so close to the a/port.
It seems from your responses that you will read what you want to read into the pay and conditions.....good luck to you. I know the people who will be your superiors. If past performance is any indication.....and it is at best a good barometre....then you are in for a most enjoyable ride (sic) in both conditions and in the manner you will be treated.
We get what we deserve in life........give it some thought.
"Lets at least debate using factual information"
I clearly stated that the figures were relevant in yr 2000.
Further, I've never eaten at raffles but do enjoy a bottle of wine with my tucker....so a meal for two and a bottle of decent plonk and SGD 200 still stands....anywhere on Orchard rd and a decent bottle will start at SGD 60.....heaven forbid I may desire 2 bottles of gargle blaster.....close enough to SGD 300............ I figure when you are dead it tends to be for a long time.
If you wish to confine your social activities to the Salmanella stalls on the side of the road then that is your perogative.
Apartment prices were for Bayshaw park/Granville and surrounding area. I have no doubt that they have gone down......explained all the reasoning to you in my previous post ....but I doubt that they have gone down to the extent you quoted in an area so close to the a/port.
It seems from your responses that you will read what you want to read into the pay and conditions.....good luck to you. I know the people who will be your superiors. If past performance is any indication.....and it is at best a good barometre....then you are in for a most enjoyable ride (sic) in both conditions and in the manner you will be treated.
We get what we deserve in life........give it some thought.
Last edited by fire wall; 3rd Mar 2004 at 19:13.
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
christep,
Every time a Cathay captain takes off, he is responsible for equipment that is worth USD150 minimum plus the lives of 300 to 400 passengers.
If you raised local salaries to expat levels, you still wouldn't get enough local trained pilots to fill the requirements and if you want to attract expats, you can't expect anyone to lower his living standards from UK or Australia; which means having to pay housing, education etc. allowances. Aviation is not like Telecoms, this bubble is not about to burst.
That was for having P&L responsibility for about US$150M of business a year and managing a couple of hundred people around the region.
If there is a sufficient supply of pilots in Singapore (or Hong Kong) then I see no reason why an employer should pay a premium to bring someone from somewhere else. And if there isn't a sufficient supply then surely the most logical thing to do is to raise the salaries of all pilots employed in Singapore until you reach the point where you do have enough applicants?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire wall.
You are quite correct - you were using outdated figures that I overlooked. My appologies.
The figures I used were from my experience living in East Coast and on Orchard road. I have never heard of Granville. The figures are correct and straight off the tennancy agreement, circa 2003/2004. They are still on the decline.
Hotdog,
Strategy and tactics are two very different things.
You are quite correct - you were using outdated figures that I overlooked. My appologies.
The figures I used were from my experience living in East Coast and on Orchard road. I have never heard of Granville. The figures are correct and straight off the tennancy agreement, circa 2003/2004. They are still on the decline.
Hotdog,
Strategy and tactics are two very different things.
Perhaps this is not relevent - though as I have no real interest in DHL here goes:
A good many years ago I was patiently waiting in line at the immigration counter at Kai Tak prior to flying to LHR on CX250. The queue was long and progressing quite slowly. Granted last minute boarding passes from the staff counter we remained in line. Around this time, my wife and I were roughly moved aside by G.O. and Family as he LOUDLY announced his requirement to bypass the peasants in line and make his 'imperative' connection. He pushed in front of 20plus passengers.. We subsequently boarded CX250 with time to spare. Adjacent, sipping Krug, sat G.O. & co.
Unfortunately, this was not my only encounter with this gentleman and I cannot report any redeeming qualities. Beware.
Kind regards to all
the spleen.
A good many years ago I was patiently waiting in line at the immigration counter at Kai Tak prior to flying to LHR on CX250. The queue was long and progressing quite slowly. Granted last minute boarding passes from the staff counter we remained in line. Around this time, my wife and I were roughly moved aside by G.O. and Family as he LOUDLY announced his requirement to bypass the peasants in line and make his 'imperative' connection. He pushed in front of 20plus passengers.. We subsequently boarded CX250 with time to spare. Adjacent, sipping Krug, sat G.O. & co.
Unfortunately, this was not my only encounter with this gentleman and I cannot report any redeeming qualities. Beware.
Kind regards to all
the spleen.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HotDog,
I disagree with your premise. Or at least it isn't true in all cases:
I get more or less the same gross salary in Hk as I would get in the UK. I don't get any housing allowances, COLAs or anything like that. The standard of living I enjoy is at least as high in HK as it would be in London - the higher costs of some items in HK (and there are plenty of things which are the same or cheaper) is offset by the fact that I am taxed at about 15% rather than about 35% on my salary, and also by the fact that I do not have to pay any tax on profits from my savings investments.
I simply don't agree - certainly in the absence of kids of school age - that allowances are necessary to have the same standard of living in HK as in the UK.
Note though that "have the same standard of living" is not the same as "live in Hong Kong as if you were living in London".
I disagree with your premise. Or at least it isn't true in all cases:
I get more or less the same gross salary in Hk as I would get in the UK. I don't get any housing allowances, COLAs or anything like that. The standard of living I enjoy is at least as high in HK as it would be in London - the higher costs of some items in HK (and there are plenty of things which are the same or cheaper) is offset by the fact that I am taxed at about 15% rather than about 35% on my salary, and also by the fact that I do not have to pay any tax on profits from my savings investments.
I simply don't agree - certainly in the absence of kids of school age - that allowances are necessary to have the same standard of living in HK as in the UK.
Note though that "have the same standard of living" is not the same as "live in Hong Kong as if you were living in London".