Flying in the Navy
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Flying in the Navy
Hi there,
The RN have been in touch re a Naval flying career but I have a few questions if you could kindly answer.
What is the selection like, saw apptitudes first day, second day gym exercises (?) (what are you expected to do there), then interview.
Can you say no if they only offer you observer or does that come later down the line, when you have already committed yourself.
If you are flying rotary, do you also hold a fixed wing license as your original training is on fixed wing aircraft.
What is the 36 or whatever week start of training (Non flying like)?
Many thanks for your time.
Sagey
The RN have been in touch re a Naval flying career but I have a few questions if you could kindly answer.
What is the selection like, saw apptitudes first day, second day gym exercises (?) (what are you expected to do there), then interview.
Can you say no if they only offer you observer or does that come later down the line, when you have already committed yourself.
If you are flying rotary, do you also hold a fixed wing license as your original training is on fixed wing aircraft.
What is the 36 or whatever week start of training (Non flying like)?
Many thanks for your time.
Sagey
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The gym exercises are lots of leadership tests where you have to get your team across imaginary chasms etc. You do not have to accept observer, and I strongly suggest you dont, and you can bang out any time before you go front line. You do not get ANY form of civilian license from military flying, though once you have 2000 hours there is now a fairly easy route to an ATPL(H) Good Luck 
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Tourist thanks alot.
Sorry the word license was probably the wrong word, as I know you don't get civvy licenses. What I really mean is, your original training is on fixed wing. Are there opportunities to fly fixed wing aircraft, for example in own time even if you are posted onto rotary aircraft. I think it would be a wonderful opportunity if you could experience both elements of flight!
Thanks for the advice, I had visions of gym exercises being miles and miles of runs, lots of press ups etc.
Sagey
Sorry the word license was probably the wrong word, as I know you don't get civvy licenses. What I really mean is, your original training is on fixed wing. Are there opportunities to fly fixed wing aircraft, for example in own time even if you are posted onto rotary aircraft. I think it would be a wonderful opportunity if you could experience both elements of flight!
Thanks for the advice, I had visions of gym exercises being miles and miles of runs, lots of press ups etc.
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Sagey,
As far as I can remember they actively discourage concurrent fixed and rotary wing flying, particularly when you are in the initial rotary bit. This is because of the pretty big differences between the controls and their effects.
After you've finished training and gone front line I think it's game on, fill your boots as they say.
As far as the AIB goes- I'm pretty sure they haven't changed the format in the last 30yrs or so. You could try to get a work experience visit to Yeovilton/Culdrose and poke a midshipman or two in the chest in the bar and ask them all about AIB, Dartmouth and flying training.
Good luck and be careful what you agree to, on my course at Dartmouth there was a guy who until he got there thought he was going to be a Pilot- they told him on arrival that he was an Obs- he wasn't very happy!
As far as I can remember they actively discourage concurrent fixed and rotary wing flying, particularly when you are in the initial rotary bit. This is because of the pretty big differences between the controls and their effects.
After you've finished training and gone front line I think it's game on, fill your boots as they say.
As far as the AIB goes- I'm pretty sure they haven't changed the format in the last 30yrs or so. You could try to get a work experience visit to Yeovilton/Culdrose and poke a midshipman or two in the chest in the bar and ask them all about AIB, Dartmouth and flying training.
Good luck and be careful what you agree to, on my course at Dartmouth there was a guy who until he got there thought he was going to be a Pilot- they told him on arrival that he was an Obs- he wasn't very happy!
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Tourist, I've just applied to the RN for Observer. Have I missed something? 
Would any observers like to air their views on flying in the RN?
Edited coz I forgot to ask the second question.
[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: TimC ]
Would any observers like to air their views on flying in the RN?
Edited coz I forgot to ask the second question
.[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: TimC ]
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Pinger did he leave?, as I believe you have the right to leave. I have set my cards out anyway, the Navy got my CV off a website and in it is categorically says want to work towards pilot licenses and seek a career as a pilot.
I have put in OEQ in interests, above all am eager to find a career as a pilot.
Will harp on about it at Advisory interview and whatever next. Will say no to observer lol. Crickey, I wonder how he got tricked into observer when he thought he was going to become a pilot!
Sagey
I have put in OEQ in interests, above all am eager to find a career as a pilot.
Will harp on about it at Advisory interview and whatever next. Will say no to observer lol. Crickey, I wonder how he got tricked into observer when he thought he was going to become a pilot!
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TimC
DON'T PANIC (Written in large friendly letters on the cover)
Obs in the Navy is a good job, I don't think you've missed anything at all. I preferred pilot, also something to do with the fact I was too thick to pass the Obs bit of the apptitude tests..... used to struggle to add up the 3 SKJ fuel guages!!
Observers get as much bad press/banter as RAF Navs do, but when it comes down to it the pilots usually shut up when it's a ****ty black night and the only way back to 'mum' is the guy on the radar. They also have fun telling PWOs and other assorted fish-heads to f### off when they're 'running' the ASW battle -all good fun
(Standing by for comments from the cheap seats)
Sagey,
That guy got chopped downstream and at that time he was 'happy' just to have a career in military aviation even in a job he didn't prefer.
So what are you going to say at the AIB if they tell you , OBS or nothing?
Don't forget also that some elements of the RN still believe the "Naval Officer first, Aviator second idea" so it shouldn't matter what you do.....
Hope this helps
DON'T PANIC (Written in large friendly letters on the cover)
Obs in the Navy is a good job, I don't think you've missed anything at all. I preferred pilot, also something to do with the fact I was too thick to pass the Obs bit of the apptitude tests..... used to struggle to add up the 3 SKJ fuel guages!!
Observers get as much bad press/banter as RAF Navs do, but when it comes down to it the pilots usually shut up when it's a ****ty black night and the only way back to 'mum' is the guy on the radar. They also have fun telling PWOs and other assorted fish-heads to f### off when they're 'running' the ASW battle -all good fun
(Standing by for comments from the cheap seats)
Sagey,
That guy got chopped downstream and at that time he was 'happy' just to have a career in military aviation even in a job he didn't prefer.
So what are you going to say at the AIB if they tell you , OBS or nothing?
Don't forget also that some elements of the RN still believe the "Naval Officer first, Aviator second idea" so it shouldn't matter what you do.....
Hope this helps
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MMM, well at the moment only pilot has been mentioned to be honest.
If at the interview they says OBS or nothing, and you say their apps are as hard if not harder then I would seriously have to sit down and review the situation to be honest(ie would take pilot drop of the hat, obs would have to sit down and consider options, way up positives and negatives). At the moment I am applying to become a RN pilot and will say so at interview that I want to be a pilot. I have been informed by others on this board and other contacts that you have to say no politely if they offer you something that you are less keen on.
Sagey
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Sagey ]
If at the interview they says OBS or nothing, and you say their apps are as hard if not harder then I would seriously have to sit down and review the situation to be honest(ie would take pilot drop of the hat, obs would have to sit down and consider options, way up positives and negatives). At the moment I am applying to become a RN pilot and will say so at interview that I want to be a pilot. I have been informed by others on this board and other contacts that you have to say no politely if they offer you something that you are less keen on.
Sagey
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Sagey ]
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Right Fellas,
We seem to be missing the point. I'm a fixed wing pilot in the navy. The first thing is why not go for fixed wing in the navy? I can assure you it's easier than it used to be. The second thing is go for pilot an accept nothing else. I have friends who are Obs in the navy and from the moment i met them at Dartmouth they have been trying to transfer across to become pilots ... and they've all been refused. You'll always wish you'd gone for pilot if you don't. As for the AIB when they ask you that question would you accept observer .. the answer is no ... i'd rather be a warfare officer! That covers the officer over aviation horse**** that they like to hear. Anyway thats what i did and i got pilot.
All those dudes who said they weren't sure are being flown around by the dudes who said they rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick rather than being an Obs ... ps make sure you look at the dudes arm before you start spouting this at AIB ... if he's an observer your ****ed!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps?
As for fixed wing flying if your a rotary mate .. never heard of peeps doing that apart from out of their own pocket. But you'll be doing so much flying during the week the last thing you'll want to do in your spare time is fly some more.
Advice for Dartmouth ... smile all the time ... don't let the bastards get you down and never never bad mouth anybody to anyone no matter how tired and pissed off you are ... and you will be ... it's only about a year of your life ... and after the first couple of months Dartmouth's alright if your aircrew
Cheers
We seem to be missing the point. I'm a fixed wing pilot in the navy. The first thing is why not go for fixed wing in the navy? I can assure you it's easier than it used to be. The second thing is go for pilot an accept nothing else. I have friends who are Obs in the navy and from the moment i met them at Dartmouth they have been trying to transfer across to become pilots ... and they've all been refused. You'll always wish you'd gone for pilot if you don't. As for the AIB when they ask you that question would you accept observer .. the answer is no ... i'd rather be a warfare officer! That covers the officer over aviation horse**** that they like to hear. Anyway thats what i did and i got pilot.
All those dudes who said they weren't sure are being flown around by the dudes who said they rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick rather than being an Obs ... ps make sure you look at the dudes arm before you start spouting this at AIB ... if he's an observer your ****ed!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps?
As for fixed wing flying if your a rotary mate .. never heard of peeps doing that apart from out of their own pocket. But you'll be doing so much flying during the week the last thing you'll want to do in your spare time is fly some more.
Advice for Dartmouth ... smile all the time ... don't let the bastards get you down and never never bad mouth anybody to anyone no matter how tired and pissed off you are ... and you will be ... it's only about a year of your life ... and after the first couple of months Dartmouth's alright if your aircrew
Cheers
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Didnt mean to bad mouth observers. What i was trying to put across is that if you want to be a pilot, being an observer instead is a completely diferent job. It has its own rewards I'm sure, but you dont get to pole an airraft around.
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You are getting some good info there. Lets see if I can help some more. I'm in the training system at the moment.
After JEFTS you can spend some of your own money, tick the right boxes and the CAA will get you a PPL. It is not automatic. But the system will not let you do any fixed wing spare time stuff while going through rotary training.
Opt for pilot first, then Obs if you have any desire to drive whatsoever. I know a lot of frustrated people out there and you won't get a transfer. The piloting is probably the easier job anyway.
But as stated before, you are an officer first and then an aviator - thats what they like to hear.
I think you need to read up a bit more on what you want to do. No offence, but you sound very unsure about the whole process of getting in and how, where it is done. Get hold of the careers info and jump on the RN site which has a lot of up to date info.
Best of luck
After JEFTS you can spend some of your own money, tick the right boxes and the CAA will get you a PPL. It is not automatic. But the system will not let you do any fixed wing spare time stuff while going through rotary training.
Opt for pilot first, then Obs if you have any desire to drive whatsoever. I know a lot of frustrated people out there and you won't get a transfer. The piloting is probably the easier job anyway.
But as stated before, you are an officer first and then an aviator - thats what they like to hear.
I think you need to read up a bit more on what you want to do. No offence, but you sound very unsure about the whole process of getting in and how, where it is done. Get hold of the careers info and jump on the RN site which has a lot of up to date info.
Best of luck
The 'system' might think that it can restrict the activities of an individual in his/her/its spare time, but I think that this would certainly be viewed as an unreasonable infringement of the rights of the individual in this day and age. It's the same sort of nonsense which, a few years ago, wouldn't allow holding aircrew waiting months for a Hunter TWU to fly Chipmunks to keep current as that would 'slow them down'!
If U/T naval RW pilots are so prone to skill fade, best that they don't drive cars, ride bikes or wet shave either by that stupid generalisation!!
If U/T naval RW pilots are so prone to skill fade, best that they don't drive cars, ride bikes or wet shave either by that stupid generalisation!!
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Bri-Uggin I have read all the info.
The bit about Aircrew is interesting however, my questions were more in line to rumours that I have heard.
Things like Gym exercises are not explainned in the booklet, and IMO first hand knowledge of people actually been through the process is by far the best method of learning about these things.
RN people on here have informed people going through the process that do not accept things you do not want. A booklet won't!! I think the advice given has been superb, especially about not accepting Observer even if pilot is promised down the line.
Some of my questions were also relating to opportunities to fly fixed wing if you are rotary, people have said you can but the RN discourage it or would like to try too. I am trying to gather some information for myself and I hope that this thread is interesting to all those that are considering a career within the RN.
This is what pprune should be about IMO
Sagey
[ 01 October 2001: Message edited by: Sagey ]
The bit about Aircrew is interesting however, my questions were more in line to rumours that I have heard.
Things like Gym exercises are not explainned in the booklet, and IMO first hand knowledge of people actually been through the process is by far the best method of learning about these things.
RN people on here have informed people going through the process that do not accept things you do not want. A booklet won't!! I think the advice given has been superb, especially about not accepting Observer even if pilot is promised down the line.
Some of my questions were also relating to opportunities to fly fixed wing if you are rotary, people have said you can but the RN discourage it or would like to try too. I am trying to gather some information for myself and I hope that this thread is interesting to all those that are considering a career within the RN.
This is what pprune should be about IMO
Sagey
[ 01 October 2001: Message edited by: Sagey ]
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Some subtle differences of light blue/dark blue culture here. The "naval officer first, aviator second" has its costs. In my encounters with the FAA in the Med in the '50s and at CFS, I met many admirable officers but none that I would describe as an outstanding pilot. On the other hand the outstanding pilots I have flown with (an Israeli and an American) were not obviously officers. The finest RAF pilot I flew with was a Polish Master Pilot.
At the RAF Selection Board at Ramridge House in 1949 I was asked the usual question about becoming a Nav or non-GD officer and gave a firm NO. Now if they had told me that I was too much of an oik or couldn't eat my peas correctly, but they would recommend me for NCO pilot, I would have had a real problem. Because a jet fighter pilot was what I wanted to be.
At the RAF Selection Board at Ramridge House in 1949 I was asked the usual question about becoming a Nav or non-GD officer and gave a firm NO. Now if they had told me that I was too much of an oik or couldn't eat my peas correctly, but they would recommend me for NCO pilot, I would have had a real problem. Because a jet fighter pilot was what I wanted to be.
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Yes it is useful! Keep it coming .
I have read a fair bit about the FAA and have come across one thing that seems to crop up everywhere - universal banter about pingers. Why is this and what's it all about?
.I have read a fair bit about the FAA and have come across one thing that seems to crop up everywhere - universal banter about pingers. Why is this and what's it all about?
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BEagle,
It's not the skill fade as such, but rather the confliction between trying to teach two totally different set of reactions to external events, ie throttle vs collective. Once training has finished, in my view no sweat, fill your boots.
Sagey and TimC, if you want a giggle try to find books by John Winton, "We joined the navy" and "We went to Sea", both about joining the navy and Dartmouth in the 50s. Funny in that some bits hadn't changed when I got there in the late 80s
Fully agree with Mavriks comments, afterwards you'll realise how much fun you had and how much more you could have had. If you get stuck into everything the staff will also be impressed- do they still give out seniority for good performance- anyone?
Seniority=early promotion to Leut=more dosh!
Good Luck!
TimC, just read your post ref banter about Pingers- what can i say, they're all just jealous!
Baggers=Sore arse from flogging around in 60kt orbits for 3+hrs
Junglies= Sir doesn't live in a trench....
Stovies=Not a bad job if you like working like a one armed paper hangar and landing on in an a/c that need water injection to keep it in the hover!
Standing by for incoming....
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: oldpinger ]
It's not the skill fade as such, but rather the confliction between trying to teach two totally different set of reactions to external events, ie throttle vs collective. Once training has finished, in my view no sweat, fill your boots.
Sagey and TimC, if you want a giggle try to find books by John Winton, "We joined the navy" and "We went to Sea", both about joining the navy and Dartmouth in the 50s. Funny in that some bits hadn't changed when I got there in the late 80s
Fully agree with Mavriks comments, afterwards you'll realise how much fun you had and how much more you could have had. If you get stuck into everything the staff will also be impressed- do they still give out seniority for good performance- anyone?
Seniority=early promotion to Leut=more dosh!
Good Luck!
TimC, just read your post ref banter about Pingers- what can i say, they're all just jealous!
Baggers=Sore arse from flogging around in 60kt orbits for 3+hrs
Junglies= Sir doesn't live in a trench....
Stovies=Not a bad job if you like working like a one armed paper hangar and landing on in an a/c that need water injection to keep it in the hover!
Standing by for incoming....
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: oldpinger ]
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Yeah they still do give seniority for doing well at Dartmouth. I got 6 months ... which is quite a bit of dosh actually! I spent it wisely down at the Castle in the town .. or was is the Darmouth Arms ... too pissed to remember!
I left Dartmouth in '97 ... it used to be discouraged to try fixed wing in the FAA but now it's actively encouraged ...
Sagey i'll be happy to answer any direct questions you want mate ... if you want my advice join to be a pilot and nothing else ... maybe i'm just a control freak!!!!!
As for the gym tasks ... say the following "My plan is to get from platform A to platform B (and back again) and this is how we're going to do it ... our alotted time is X mins ... any questions? no then lets get started!" Memorise this saying mate ... say it loudly with conviction and you can **** up the actual exercise in spades and still pass with flying colours .. beleive me i ****ed it huge!
Hope this helps mate?
I left Dartmouth in '97 ... it used to be discouraged to try fixed wing in the FAA but now it's actively encouraged ...
Sagey i'll be happy to answer any direct questions you want mate ... if you want my advice join to be a pilot and nothing else ... maybe i'm just a control freak!!!!!
As for the gym tasks ... say the following "My plan is to get from platform A to platform B (and back again) and this is how we're going to do it ... our alotted time is X mins ... any questions? no then lets get started!" Memorise this saying mate ... say it loudly with conviction and you can **** up the actual exercise in spades and still pass with flying colours .. beleive me i ****ed it huge!
Hope this helps mate?
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Pinger me old,
Not heard any banter about those who fly the lynx, is there any? Isn't the Lynx a bit of a lonely existence for aviators? Would a frigate or destroyer normally have just 1 pilot and 1 obs on board?
Am I right in saying that the pingers have a secondary tasking which is SAR cover? Who does the cross-decking? Do the baggers do any of this?
Not having a dig at anyone with this one (as I'd dearly love to be a pilot), but isn't being an AEW pilot very very boring?
Sorry for asking so many questions.
Not heard any banter about those who fly the lynx, is there any
? Isn't the Lynx a bit of a lonely existence for aviators? Would a frigate or destroyer normally have just 1 pilot and 1 obs on board?Am I right in saying that the pingers have a secondary tasking which is SAR cover? Who does the cross-decking? Do the baggers do any of this?
Not having a dig at anyone with this one (as I'd dearly love to be a pilot), but isn't being an AEW pilot very very boring?
Sorry for asking so many questions
.
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TimC-
regarding the Life as a lynx pilot, not a lot of experience, I was only ever on carriers, but has it's own attractions, you're correct most of the time 1 Crew on board therefore a bit more autonomy
I'm sure there are a few lynx type people out there who could help. Don't forget the mighty Merlin, also to be seen on a frigate near you- a VERY big a/c and looks like a lot of fun to fly.
Ref Sea King tasking- in the future- not too far away, Merlin will be taking over all roles on board Carriers from the ASW Seaking, so they may change, however SAR,VERTREP (vertical replenishment) and 'hash and trash' will all still need to be done. AEW aren't all that suitable, have a look in the back of one and you'll see why.
Don't forget, in aviation, particularly military, there's no such thing as a stupid question!
regarding the Life as a lynx pilot, not a lot of experience, I was only ever on carriers, but has it's own attractions, you're correct most of the time 1 Crew on board therefore a bit more autonomy
I'm sure there are a few lynx type people out there who could help. Don't forget the mighty Merlin, also to be seen on a frigate near you- a VERY big a/c and looks like a lot of fun to fly.
Ref Sea King tasking- in the future- not too far away, Merlin will be taking over all roles on board Carriers from the ASW Seaking, so they may change, however SAR,VERTREP (vertical replenishment) and 'hash and trash' will all still need to be done. AEW aren't all that suitable, have a look in the back of one and you'll see why.
Don't forget, in aviation, particularly military, there's no such thing as a stupid question!
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Sorry OldPinger, but while Sir might not live in a trench, neither do the Junglies!
Pinger - if you want to spend your life deployed on a CVS, moving from one point hovering over the water to another point hovering over some different water for three hours, often at night and then having to sit in the port wait for 20 minutes because thereŽs a SHAR within 100 miles of the carrier who might needs to get back on the deck before you!
Lynx - Night flying over the sea, 100 ft, 120 kts, no NVG, no thanks!!!
SHAR - Great job if youŽve got a brain the size of a planet and enjoy working like whirling dervish from the moment you get airborne
Bagger - Look at me, IŽm a big, slow radar target!
Junglie - Low level on NVG, troop inserts, gun moves, flying under wires, Norway...(OK, IŽll take the hit for Ocean beore anyone else mentions it)
How many more reasons do you need??
Pinger - if you want to spend your life deployed on a CVS, moving from one point hovering over the water to another point hovering over some different water for three hours, often at night and then having to sit in the port wait for 20 minutes because thereŽs a SHAR within 100 miles of the carrier who might needs to get back on the deck before you!
Lynx - Night flying over the sea, 100 ft, 120 kts, no NVG, no thanks!!!
SHAR - Great job if youŽve got a brain the size of a planet and enjoy working like whirling dervish from the moment you get airborne
Bagger - Look at me, IŽm a big, slow radar target!
Junglie - Low level on NVG, troop inserts, gun moves, flying under wires, Norway...(OK, IŽll take the hit for Ocean beore anyone else mentions it)
How many more reasons do you need??