AA in the west country
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AA in the west country
Rumour has it that AA are undertaking a feasibilty study into operating a seasonal route into a SW airport.
A possible route could be either ORD or MIA to BRS.
A possible route could be either ORD or MIA to BRS.
MAybe they aer also looking into EDI??? 
Brunel to Concorde
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It's Bristol (BRS). They have been after a direct New York link for several years and are putting a lot of work into drumming up support with the local business community.
I still wonder about the runway length but it would seem this has been taken into consideration. EWR is the likely US airport if this ever happens.
This press release was issued a couple of weeks ago:
Bristol International Airport has returned from the USA following promising talks with both Continental Airlines and American Airlines, to secure the airport’s first transatlantic route.
Discussions between the US airlines and Bristol International focussed on the introduction of a non-stop flight to New York by Summer 2005.
Commenting on the outcome of the trip Tony Hallwood, Aviation Development Director at Bristol, said:
“Both American Airlines and Continental Airlines responded very positively to the data and presentations provided by the airport and, as a direct result, they have now agreed to undertake in-depth route evaluations. Given that the West of England has the largest unserved catchment area to the USA in Western Europe, and that a projected figure of 100,000 passengers would use a direct flight from Bristol International each year, we are confident that Bristol stands an excellent chance of becoming the UK’s next transatlantic gateway.”
Further discussions are expected to take place between Bristol International and the two US airlines in the Spring, following the outcome of their route evaluations.
US route facts:
Bristol International Airport’s research shows that:
- 139,000 people from the region currently fly from London to the USA each year
- A direct daily flight from Bristol to the US would bring 315,000 North American passengers to South West region each year
- As well as providing superb links for the region’s businesses, it is predicted that each US visitor to the South West would spend around £500 on transport, hotels, and leisure whilst in the region, and that the total contribution to the region could be £12 million each year.
I still wonder about the runway length but it would seem this has been taken into consideration. EWR is the likely US airport if this ever happens.
This press release was issued a couple of weeks ago:
Bristol International Airport has returned from the USA following promising talks with both Continental Airlines and American Airlines, to secure the airport’s first transatlantic route.
Discussions between the US airlines and Bristol International focussed on the introduction of a non-stop flight to New York by Summer 2005.
Commenting on the outcome of the trip Tony Hallwood, Aviation Development Director at Bristol, said:
“Both American Airlines and Continental Airlines responded very positively to the data and presentations provided by the airport and, as a direct result, they have now agreed to undertake in-depth route evaluations. Given that the West of England has the largest unserved catchment area to the USA in Western Europe, and that a projected figure of 100,000 passengers would use a direct flight from Bristol International each year, we are confident that Bristol stands an excellent chance of becoming the UK’s next transatlantic gateway.”
Further discussions are expected to take place between Bristol International and the two US airlines in the Spring, following the outcome of their route evaluations.
US route facts:
Bristol International Airport’s research shows that:
- 139,000 people from the region currently fly from London to the USA each year
- A direct daily flight from Bristol to the US would bring 315,000 North American passengers to South West region each year
- As well as providing superb links for the region’s businesses, it is predicted that each US visitor to the South West would spend around £500 on transport, hotels, and leisure whilst in the region, and that the total contribution to the region could be £12 million each year.
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... I think Bristol has an excellant chance for a daily CO flight to Newark using a 752 within the next 18 months or so. You have the west country and wales and of course Bristol/Bath etc for a start who would make great use of a local flight across the pond.
However after BHX lost AA daily to Chicago, this mainly due to 9-11 , I beleive PAX on the ORD-BHX was pretty good ( CO recentry added 2nd daily BHX-Newark due to transatlantic demand + now we hopefully have Flyblu on thw way! ), AA's BHX-ORD operated for 6 years or more prior to 9-11 - of course I stand corrected if im wrong, but I feel if AA were to add a new English destination outside MAN and London it would be BHX for a few reasons including a larger population and business catchment area in the Midlands, not to mention more connections and transatting passengers etc etc + AA would be comfortable at BHX-T2 with BA and now Duo where they were before. AA would also link up with BA routes for connections etc etc....of course I could be wrong and BRS may have something up there sleeves...... ???
Personally I think NCL and BRS will both get daily CO 752's within the next 3 years or so - and they will both be successfull, but I doubt AA will expand outside of MAN,GLA and London airports ( not even BHX im afraid !! ) for a long while yet : (
However after BHX lost AA daily to Chicago, this mainly due to 9-11 , I beleive PAX on the ORD-BHX was pretty good ( CO recentry added 2nd daily BHX-Newark due to transatlantic demand + now we hopefully have Flyblu on thw way! ), AA's BHX-ORD operated for 6 years or more prior to 9-11 - of course I stand corrected if im wrong, but I feel if AA were to add a new English destination outside MAN and London it would be BHX for a few reasons including a larger population and business catchment area in the Midlands, not to mention more connections and transatting passengers etc etc + AA would be comfortable at BHX-T2 with BA and now Duo where they were before. AA would also link up with BA routes for connections etc etc....of course I could be wrong and BRS may have something up there sleeves...... ???
Personally I think NCL and BRS will both get daily CO 752's within the next 3 years or so - and they will both be successfull, but I doubt AA will expand outside of MAN,GLA and London airports ( not even BHX im afraid !! ) for a long while yet : (
Brunel to Concorde
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No, BRS does not have a flight to Florida in the summer months. It has had in the past but they have never lasted very long and, from memory, always went via another UK or Irish airport.
Bristol no longer has a summer Toronto flight either. It did have until Canada 3000 went out of business, but this had only been runnng for a couple of summers, first as Royal Air, then Canada 3000 when that airline took over Royal. It went via GLA.
I have enquired of the airport on a number of occasions over the years, suggesting that the runway length is the barrier, but they have always denied this.
It is a strange situation in that EXT with about a tenth of BRS's pax, has a weekly summer Toronto flight as does CWL with around half BRS's pax. CWL also has a summer Florida flight each week.
Given that BRS has pulled well away from its two closest 'rival' airports in practically everything but transAtlantics, I am suspicious that there is not an operational reason for this. Having said this they did have a Britannia B 767 fly I believe non stop to Barbados last month on a one-off cruise flight.
I speak as a regular BRS user with no experience in the aviation industry. Perhaps a professional with knowledge of BRS might comment on my contention.
I would love to see a New York flight, as I would Floridas and Torontos, but will wait to see if the EWR goes ahead first.
Bristol no longer has a summer Toronto flight either. It did have until Canada 3000 went out of business, but this had only been runnng for a couple of summers, first as Royal Air, then Canada 3000 when that airline took over Royal. It went via GLA.
I have enquired of the airport on a number of occasions over the years, suggesting that the runway length is the barrier, but they have always denied this.
It is a strange situation in that EXT with about a tenth of BRS's pax, has a weekly summer Toronto flight as does CWL with around half BRS's pax. CWL also has a summer Florida flight each week.
Given that BRS has pulled well away from its two closest 'rival' airports in practically everything but transAtlantics, I am suspicious that there is not an operational reason for this. Having said this they did have a Britannia B 767 fly I believe non stop to Barbados last month on a one-off cruise flight.
I speak as a regular BRS user with no experience in the aviation industry. Perhaps a professional with knowledge of BRS might comment on my contention.
I would love to see a New York flight, as I would Floridas and Torontos, but will wait to see if the EWR goes ahead first.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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Brittania also operate a 767 from BRS to take kiddies to Lapland to see Santa around Christmas time. That is usually full and heavy, but it operates.
Maybe someone has a few facts about the perf requirements!
Maybe someone has a few facts about the perf requirements!
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Well, here are the runway lengths. I know there is more to it than just the length (Take off run available, Take off run available, obstacle clearance height etc.)
Bristol 2011M
Exeter 2083M
Cardiff 2392M
and my local
Newcastle 2329M
Might answer the Florida question, not so sure on the NY/Toronto one???
Bristol 2011M
Exeter 2083M
Cardiff 2392M
and my local
Newcastle 2329M
Might answer the Florida question, not so sure on the NY/Toronto one???
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Ref Merchant Venture
Yep I used to work there a little while ago. There has indeed been talk about an American flight for sometime. If I remember rightly it was discussed with Continental around 1998/1999. I heard a rumour from a good source that this was dropped due to BRS no being able to agree a deal simular to that in BHX. However times have changed and BRS seems to be attracting more and more airlines.
Some of the barriers from my point of view from working there are handling and as mentioned before runway length.
The Airport have always said that there is no need to extend the runway however I feel this is vital for the future of the airport.
I have heard the quote " Aircraft performances will change" alas this has not happened on the long haul routes that BRS are rumoured to have from the states.
I think a CO 757 operation would be viable. However I would be very surprised to hear of an AA operation using 767,777 a/c.
BRS is not capable of handling wide bodies, when you have 1 high lift ( that may have changed) Not a large ramp, out dated ULD trolleys and in my view a piss poor attitude from the handling staff. They certainly would have to drastically improve compared to the agents I have worked with at other UK airports.
Also from a customer point of view sitting on a cold or stuffy bus awaiting boarding is not a nice situation to be in.
BRS is my local and is a good airport however it has lost many things compared to other airports. Thats just my thoughts from previously working there. I believe not much has changed since then.
Cheers
Yep I used to work there a little while ago. There has indeed been talk about an American flight for sometime. If I remember rightly it was discussed with Continental around 1998/1999. I heard a rumour from a good source that this was dropped due to BRS no being able to agree a deal simular to that in BHX. However times have changed and BRS seems to be attracting more and more airlines.
Some of the barriers from my point of view from working there are handling and as mentioned before runway length.
The Airport have always said that there is no need to extend the runway however I feel this is vital for the future of the airport.
I have heard the quote " Aircraft performances will change" alas this has not happened on the long haul routes that BRS are rumoured to have from the states.
I think a CO 757 operation would be viable. However I would be very surprised to hear of an AA operation using 767,777 a/c.
BRS is not capable of handling wide bodies, when you have 1 high lift ( that may have changed) Not a large ramp, out dated ULD trolleys and in my view a piss poor attitude from the handling staff. They certainly would have to drastically improve compared to the agents I have worked with at other UK airports.
Also from a customer point of view sitting on a cold or stuffy bus awaiting boarding is not a nice situation to be in.
BRS is my local and is a good airport however it has lost many things compared to other airports. Thats just my thoughts from previously working there. I believe not much has changed since then.
Cheers
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It does seem hard to imagine that there could be a non-stop flight to the US from Bristol, one that went via Glasgow may be more viable.
The runway length and airfield elevation make it operationally more difficult for such a flight.
The AA flight out of BHX , which has a considerably longer runway than Bristol had problems with weight if the temperature rose above about 22 degrees in the summer and had to off load freight or baggage to get airborne.
The runway length and airfield elevation make it operationally more difficult for such a flight.
The AA flight out of BHX , which has a considerably longer runway than Bristol had problems with weight if the temperature rose above about 22 degrees in the summer and had to off load freight or baggage to get airborne.
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Standard Jet,
Like you I have heard the Continental rumour for the last five or six years. In fact, the airport discreetly suggested they were on the verge of agreeing something when the Twin Towers outrage occurred which obviously re-wrote the script for the following years.
The apron has been doubled in size this winter by moving the general aviation to the south side. It needed to be with six easy 737s, three BA ERJs, KLM, AF, SN Brussels and some charter airlines all over-nighting. I think there are or soon will be about thirty parking stands for commercial airliners.
The design of the new terminal does not permit air bridges although the airport has built covered walkways to the nearer stands.
From a personal point of view I don't mind being bussed to remote stands. I hate entering large airports for trans continental flights with the knowledge that the next time I shall breathe outside air is on the other side of an ocean.
I would have thought a CO 757 the most likely, anything bigger might be difficult to fill anyway.
I can only assume that both AA and CO don't see any technical difficulties, otherwise would they go to the trouble of an evaluation, or does that encompass tech matters as well as commercial?
I can't comment on the efficiency of the handling staff except to say that there has been a great improvement in the speed of baggage handling in the past two or three years, in my experience anyway. In the past I have taken this up with the airport senior management because it used sometimes to be unacceptable at busy times.
When Royal Air did the weekly Toronto about four years ago (before being absorbed by Canada 3000) they used wide-bodied A 310s, but they went via another UK airport. As has been said Britannia use 767s at times.
It will be fascinating to see if anything does transpire following the route evaluation. If the runway is the sticking point I am sure that CWL would make a play for the route, if they are not doing so already.
flower,
I take the point about the elevation of the runway (600 feet, I believe), as well as the length.
I am not sure that a flight via another airport would be acceptable to business pax. From the noises coming from the business leaders here it has to be non-stop or they will continue going to the London airports or BHX.
What an opportunity Bristol City Council missed in the 1950s when they could have moved the Bristol airport to Filton from Whitchurch, but they chose Lulsgate.
If Filton (next to motorways and near Bristol Parkway Station), with its 2,450 metre runway, larger site and better weather was Bristol's airport today, I am sure it would be well on its way to BHX's size.
Like you I have heard the Continental rumour for the last five or six years. In fact, the airport discreetly suggested they were on the verge of agreeing something when the Twin Towers outrage occurred which obviously re-wrote the script for the following years.
The apron has been doubled in size this winter by moving the general aviation to the south side. It needed to be with six easy 737s, three BA ERJs, KLM, AF, SN Brussels and some charter airlines all over-nighting. I think there are or soon will be about thirty parking stands for commercial airliners.
The design of the new terminal does not permit air bridges although the airport has built covered walkways to the nearer stands.
From a personal point of view I don't mind being bussed to remote stands. I hate entering large airports for trans continental flights with the knowledge that the next time I shall breathe outside air is on the other side of an ocean.
I would have thought a CO 757 the most likely, anything bigger might be difficult to fill anyway.
I can only assume that both AA and CO don't see any technical difficulties, otherwise would they go to the trouble of an evaluation, or does that encompass tech matters as well as commercial?
I can't comment on the efficiency of the handling staff except to say that there has been a great improvement in the speed of baggage handling in the past two or three years, in my experience anyway. In the past I have taken this up with the airport senior management because it used sometimes to be unacceptable at busy times.
When Royal Air did the weekly Toronto about four years ago (before being absorbed by Canada 3000) they used wide-bodied A 310s, but they went via another UK airport. As has been said Britannia use 767s at times.
It will be fascinating to see if anything does transpire following the route evaluation. If the runway is the sticking point I am sure that CWL would make a play for the route, if they are not doing so already.
flower,
I take the point about the elevation of the runway (600 feet, I believe), as well as the length.
I am not sure that a flight via another airport would be acceptable to business pax. From the noises coming from the business leaders here it has to be non-stop or they will continue going to the London airports or BHX.
What an opportunity Bristol City Council missed in the 1950s when they could have moved the Bristol airport to Filton from Whitchurch, but they chose Lulsgate.
If Filton (next to motorways and near Bristol Parkway Station), with its 2,450 metre runway, larger site and better weather was Bristol's airport today, I am sure it would be well on its way to BHX's size.
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Thanks Merchant venture
Yep I believe all the ramp as been reconfigured since I was there.
I still think they need additional ramp space.
Totally agree ref Filton what an airport it would be if BRS was relocated there.
Funny enough I was working there when the A310 used to arrive on the Sat mornings as its timing coincided with one of our departures.
Only 4-5 ULDs used to be offloaded from the forward hold so never a need for so much equipment, however a fully laden 767 with the constraints of connection bags and other problems would be a challange for the guys there right now.
Im just looking at the negatives from an airline point of view.
As mentioned above AA was limited on runway performance with a 767 -300 at BHX. Whilst working in BHX I heard many storys regarding this so I think BRS is still limited.
CO has got to be the best option, I think that will probaly be the new airline. After all a 757 is a very easy aircraft to turnaround considering BRS facilitys.
How far do you think they could go with the runway extension?? 400 ,metres at most. Im sure the NIMBYS or should i say 4 houses that are affected at the end of 27 will not like the governments recent recommendations.
Any knowledge of the above plans??
Anyway nice to see BRS in the news again.
Yep I believe all the ramp as been reconfigured since I was there.
I still think they need additional ramp space.
Totally agree ref Filton what an airport it would be if BRS was relocated there.
Funny enough I was working there when the A310 used to arrive on the Sat mornings as its timing coincided with one of our departures.
Only 4-5 ULDs used to be offloaded from the forward hold so never a need for so much equipment, however a fully laden 767 with the constraints of connection bags and other problems would be a challange for the guys there right now.
Im just looking at the negatives from an airline point of view.
As mentioned above AA was limited on runway performance with a 767 -300 at BHX. Whilst working in BHX I heard many storys regarding this so I think BRS is still limited.
CO has got to be the best option, I think that will probaly be the new airline. After all a 757 is a very easy aircraft to turnaround considering BRS facilitys.
How far do you think they could go with the runway extension?? 400 ,metres at most. Im sure the NIMBYS or should i say 4 houses that are affected at the end of 27 will not like the governments recent recommendations.
Any knowledge of the above plans??
Anyway nice to see BRS in the news again.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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I believe that the relocation of GA to the south side was always on the cards to enable expansion. I heard the rumour that the fuel farm will be relocated as well so the terminal can expand west past the control tower. I hope that when they do expand the terminal they think about providing covered walkways, it is much more professional!
Agree about Filton as well, all the transport infrastructure, and better wx. However, sadly, more vociferous nimby’s
Agree about Filton as well, all the transport infrastructure, and better wx. However, sadly, more vociferous nimby’s
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Not if but When and Who !!!
BRS -New york B757 with y150 pax is easily achievable.
We have had in the past (fact) had direct flights from Bristol to Orlando with By 767-200's (y273)in 1997 and AmTram B757's (y215 and direct- I used to file the the fpl's ) also to Orlando in 1992.
The key is the market in terms of potential pax. If we didn't have some of the best aerospace , IT , Drinks ( Cider !!) and Defence companies in the world then we wouldn't stand a chance , as it happens we do everyone knows it including the US carriers so as I say not if but WHEN!!! ( and who ).
BRS -New york B757 with y150 pax is easily achievable.
We have had in the past (fact) had direct flights from Bristol to Orlando with By 767-200's (y273)in 1997 and AmTram B757's (y215 and direct- I used to file the the fpl's ) also to Orlando in 1992.
The key is the market in terms of potential pax. If we didn't have some of the best aerospace , IT , Drinks ( Cider !!) and Defence companies in the world then we wouldn't stand a chance , as it happens we do everyone knows it including the US carriers so as I say not if but WHEN!!! ( and who ).
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A Bristolian
Direct BRS - SFB in 1997 are you sure!! I was working for the handling agent there at that time got some photos of the a/c doing that rotation.
I thought it was doing BRS - SNN - SFB there was about 4- 5 rotations that summer season if I remember rightly,spead over uneven times during the summer season.
Some did the above and some stopped at BGR pretty sure none direct.
Coming back used to be direct SFB - BRS if I remember rightly.
Anyway im sure a 757 operation would be viable and do well from BRS CO i think would be the favourite to supply this route.
Take care everybody
Direct BRS - SFB in 1997 are you sure!! I was working for the handling agent there at that time got some photos of the a/c doing that rotation.
I thought it was doing BRS - SNN - SFB there was about 4- 5 rotations that summer season if I remember rightly,spead over uneven times during the summer season.
Some did the above and some stopped at BGR pretty sure none direct.
Coming back used to be direct SFB - BRS if I remember rightly.
Anyway im sure a 757 operation would be viable and do well from BRS CO i think would be the favourite to supply this route.
Take care everybody
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Sorry my mistake , in 1997 we had the roving BY B767 doing POP with the odd times as mentioned
In 1995 we had a fortnightly Tuesday BY B767 to MCO ( B4 SFB's) and when operated by GBYAA or GBYAB it went direct - honest.
In 1995 we had a fortnightly Tuesday BY B767 to MCO ( B4 SFB's) and when operated by GBYAA or GBYAB it went direct - honest.
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Standard Jet
In reply to your query about runway extension, I read somewhere locally that is not thought likely until the annual pax throughput reaches around 8 million. I don't really understand the significance of this because extra runway surely equates to more routes not currently achieveable rather than extra pax.
I agree that any runway extension would have to be at the eastern end and would straddle the A 38. As this road was diverted a few years ago I suppose the ancient idea of a cut and cover tunnel under the runway would be used. Probably 300-400 metres of extra runway is about the most that could be wrung out, as you say.
There are NIMBYs in the local villages, most of whom have moved into the expanding villages in the past twenty or thirty years (still regarded as 'new people' by many of the old village families). The real locals in the main like and support the airport because it brings work and interest. I grew up in and around Wrington Vale villages in the 1940s and 1950s and still have a lot of contacts with the old village families.
If you listen to some of the NIMBYs you would think something akin to LHR was being planned.
I think a terminal expansion is the most likely next step. I understand it was built so it could be extended relatively easily.
As an airport Bristol is very lucky to serve a catchment area with a large Hi Tech, Aerospace, financial and insurance industry base. It also has an above average number of socio eonomic groups A B and C1 in its catchment area who have disposable money to spend onl eisure, including flights.
In reply to your query about runway extension, I read somewhere locally that is not thought likely until the annual pax throughput reaches around 8 million. I don't really understand the significance of this because extra runway surely equates to more routes not currently achieveable rather than extra pax.
I agree that any runway extension would have to be at the eastern end and would straddle the A 38. As this road was diverted a few years ago I suppose the ancient idea of a cut and cover tunnel under the runway would be used. Probably 300-400 metres of extra runway is about the most that could be wrung out, as you say.
There are NIMBYs in the local villages, most of whom have moved into the expanding villages in the past twenty or thirty years (still regarded as 'new people' by many of the old village families). The real locals in the main like and support the airport because it brings work and interest. I grew up in and around Wrington Vale villages in the 1940s and 1950s and still have a lot of contacts with the old village families.
If you listen to some of the NIMBYs you would think something akin to LHR was being planned.
I think a terminal expansion is the most likely next step. I understand it was built so it could be extended relatively easily.
As an airport Bristol is very lucky to serve a catchment area with a large Hi Tech, Aerospace, financial and insurance industry base. It also has an above average number of socio eonomic groups A B and C1 in its catchment area who have disposable money to spend onl eisure, including flights.
I think the runway extension will happen but it will be no more than a welcome but modest 180m. Thats purely rumour and informed guesswork.
Cheers
WWW
Cheers
WWW
Brunel to Concorde
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WWW,
In this week's free newspaper for the area around the airport, the local parish council is reported to be exploring its rights in case the airport 'makes a grab' for part of Felton Common which would be needed for any significant runway extension.
Would an extra 180 metres be of any real use and could this relatively small amount be achieved without tunnelling or further diverting the A 38?
I am sure your access to rumour and certainly to informed guesswork is superior to mine.
In this week's free newspaper for the area around the airport, the local parish council is reported to be exploring its rights in case the airport 'makes a grab' for part of Felton Common which would be needed for any significant runway extension.
Would an extra 180 metres be of any real use and could this relatively small amount be achieved without tunnelling or further diverting the A 38?
I am sure your access to rumour and certainly to informed guesswork is superior to mine.