DHL/LH to use B777
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DHL/LH to use B777
Lufthansa Cargo / DHL Express Joint Venture Airline 'AeroLogic' to Operate Boeing 777 Freighters
Deucalion orders eight 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic
January 28, 2008: 05:04 AM EST
SEATTLE, Jan. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing today announced that Deucalion Capital VII Limited ("Deucalion"), a company advised and managed by DVB Bank AG, has purchased eight Boeing 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic, a new joint venture airline formed by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express.
Valued at $2 billion at list prices, the eight 777 Freighters were ordered by Avion Group of Iceland in 2005. Avion Group terminated its order and the airplanes were picked up by Deucalion in late 2007.
Deucalion will lease the freighters to AeroLogic, the joint venture first announced by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express last year, for cargo services on European-Asian routes. AeroLogic will operate out of Leipzig, Germany.
"The 777 Freighter's twin-engine fuel efficiency, low noise and overall capability are perfectly suited for our new cargo service out of Leipzig," said AeroLogic Managing Director Dr. Thomas Papke. "Its combination of long range and maximum payload make it a highly economical and profitable freighter. I can't imagine another freighter that would work as well as the 777 Freighter in meeting our demanding environmental and performance targets."
The 777 Freighter will be capable of flying 4,885 nautical miles (9,045 kilometers) with a full payload, making it the world's longest-range freighter. With the lowest trip cost of any large freighter and excellent ton-mile economics, the 777 Freighter will build on the 777 family's demonstrated success in delivering lower fuel consumption, maintenance costs and operating costs than other airplanes in its class.
"As one of the newest members of the Boeing family of freighters, the 777 Freighter is a symbol of our commitment to offering customers the most capable and efficient freighters in the world," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales for Europe, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "With a record 83 orders for freighters in 2007, our freighter family is recognized by customers around the world as offering superior performance. I look forward to our partnership with AeroLogic as the 777 Freighter becomes a cornerstone of its success."
The 777 Freighter will feature unmatched capacity and range for a twin-engine freighter and is designed to facilitate seamless interlining with the 747 freighter. With a maximum takeoff weight of 766,000 pounds (347,450 kilograms), the 777 Freighter will have a revenue payload capability of more than 226,000 pounds (103 metric tons). In addition, the 777 Freighter will meet QC2 noise standards for maximum accessibility to noise-sensitive airports.
About AeroLogic GmbH
AeroLogic GmbH is jointly owned by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo AG, with each company holding a 50 percent stake. The airline, which was founded in September 2007 and is based in Leipzig/Schkeuditz, developed from the joint venture set up by the two partners in 2004. The company currently has about 20 employees. In all, AeroLogic is expected to generate about 250 new jobs, roughly 200 of which will be for cockpit crew. By 2012, the AeroLogic fleet will encompass eleven leased Boeing 777-200Fs, the first four of which are scheduled for delivery at the beginning of 2009. AeroLogic's cargo capacities will mainly be used by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo. The two partners will also be responsible for sales and warehouse handling. Operations are being planned around both partners' requirements: on weekdays, freighters will fly to Asian destinations in the express network operated by DHL Express. At weekends, they will supplement Lufthansa Cargo's services. For customers of the parent companies, AeroLogic will mean more capacity, more flexibility, an expanded network and improved operating times.
Deucalion orders eight 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic
January 28, 2008: 05:04 AM EST
SEATTLE, Jan. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing today announced that Deucalion Capital VII Limited ("Deucalion"), a company advised and managed by DVB Bank AG, has purchased eight Boeing 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic, a new joint venture airline formed by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express.
Valued at $2 billion at list prices, the eight 777 Freighters were ordered by Avion Group of Iceland in 2005. Avion Group terminated its order and the airplanes were picked up by Deucalion in late 2007.
Deucalion will lease the freighters to AeroLogic, the joint venture first announced by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express last year, for cargo services on European-Asian routes. AeroLogic will operate out of Leipzig, Germany.
"The 777 Freighter's twin-engine fuel efficiency, low noise and overall capability are perfectly suited for our new cargo service out of Leipzig," said AeroLogic Managing Director Dr. Thomas Papke. "Its combination of long range and maximum payload make it a highly economical and profitable freighter. I can't imagine another freighter that would work as well as the 777 Freighter in meeting our demanding environmental and performance targets."
The 777 Freighter will be capable of flying 4,885 nautical miles (9,045 kilometers) with a full payload, making it the world's longest-range freighter. With the lowest trip cost of any large freighter and excellent ton-mile economics, the 777 Freighter will build on the 777 family's demonstrated success in delivering lower fuel consumption, maintenance costs and operating costs than other airplanes in its class.
"As one of the newest members of the Boeing family of freighters, the 777 Freighter is a symbol of our commitment to offering customers the most capable and efficient freighters in the world," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales for Europe, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "With a record 83 orders for freighters in 2007, our freighter family is recognized by customers around the world as offering superior performance. I look forward to our partnership with AeroLogic as the 777 Freighter becomes a cornerstone of its success."
The 777 Freighter will feature unmatched capacity and range for a twin-engine freighter and is designed to facilitate seamless interlining with the 747 freighter. With a maximum takeoff weight of 766,000 pounds (347,450 kilograms), the 777 Freighter will have a revenue payload capability of more than 226,000 pounds (103 metric tons). In addition, the 777 Freighter will meet QC2 noise standards for maximum accessibility to noise-sensitive airports.
About AeroLogic GmbH
AeroLogic GmbH is jointly owned by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo AG, with each company holding a 50 percent stake. The airline, which was founded in September 2007 and is based in Leipzig/Schkeuditz, developed from the joint venture set up by the two partners in 2004. The company currently has about 20 employees. In all, AeroLogic is expected to generate about 250 new jobs, roughly 200 of which will be for cockpit crew. By 2012, the AeroLogic fleet will encompass eleven leased Boeing 777-200Fs, the first four of which are scheduled for delivery at the beginning of 2009. AeroLogic's cargo capacities will mainly be used by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo. The two partners will also be responsible for sales and warehouse handling. Operations are being planned around both partners' requirements: on weekdays, freighters will fly to Asian destinations in the express network operated by DHL Express. At weekends, they will supplement Lufthansa Cargo's services. For customers of the parent companies, AeroLogic will mean more capacity, more flexibility, an expanded network and improved operating times.
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Does anybody have any information about their working conditions for cockpit crew? Days off, pay scale, rostering etc
There wasn't anything about this on their website, just some info about Leipzig and all its wonders.
Fly safe!
There wasn't anything about this on their website, just some info about Leipzig and all its wonders.
Fly safe!
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Wrote it already in the Fragrant Harbour section:
In either language they write, that English is mandatory and German is nice, but not requirerd.
Check for the comparably low requirements for a "world wide operator", concerning experience, licenses, languages and more.
It seems to me, that initially they try to collect a bunch of thousands of applicants, many of them from Eastern Europe (Leipzig is closer to Prague and Warsaw than to Amsterdam, London and Paris) and upon that setting up the T&Cs, probably being the worst we can expect, moreover being individually tuned.
The more media talk about a pilot shortage, the more there will be a flood of pilots from every corner of Europe and the world, desperately seeking for better work conditions. Adding those, who desperately want to return from the Middle East, this airline won´t be able to cope with the number of applicants, it receives in the next weeks.
In either language they write, that English is mandatory and German is nice, but not requirerd.
Check for the comparably low requirements for a "world wide operator", concerning experience, licenses, languages and more.
It seems to me, that initially they try to collect a bunch of thousands of applicants, many of them from Eastern Europe (Leipzig is closer to Prague and Warsaw than to Amsterdam, London and Paris) and upon that setting up the T&Cs, probably being the worst we can expect, moreover being individually tuned.
The more media talk about a pilot shortage, the more there will be a flood of pilots from every corner of Europe and the world, desperately seeking for better work conditions. Adding those, who desperately want to return from the Middle East, this airline won´t be able to cope with the number of applicants, it receives in the next weeks.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
probably being the worst we can expect, moreover being individually tuned
In a hypothetical but realistic sense, what would be a 'fair' wage for this job?
FO €70k basic?
sr
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70k € may be after 2-3 years. Guess initially 50k € for FOs, non type rated.
The "Director Human Resources" is Wolfgang John, a former CEO of Aero Lloyd, which, shortly after he changed to Hapag-Lloyd (now TUIfly), went bankrupt.
At Hapag-Lloyd he was one of 3 Board Members, trying to sharply reduce social conditions for the staff, especially crew members.
"Unfortunately" he didn´t manage to run this course for a long time, so after 3 years without any positive input he voluntarily resigned, as Mr. Christoph Müller, the master chief looser, who run TUIfly close to bankruptcy, was put ahead of him.
What annoys me - flight business is so small, that any new company means just recycling of rotten and forgotten garbage, sorry to tell it like this.
Obviously there are no really qualified guys out there to run this.
The "Director Human Resources" is Wolfgang John, a former CEO of Aero Lloyd, which, shortly after he changed to Hapag-Lloyd (now TUIfly), went bankrupt.
At Hapag-Lloyd he was one of 3 Board Members, trying to sharply reduce social conditions for the staff, especially crew members.
"Unfortunately" he didn´t manage to run this course for a long time, so after 3 years without any positive input he voluntarily resigned, as Mr. Christoph Müller, the master chief looser, who run TUIfly close to bankruptcy, was put ahead of him.
What annoys me - flight business is so small, that any new company means just recycling of rotten and forgotten garbage, sorry to tell it like this.
Obviously there are no really qualified guys out there to run this.
Last edited by skycruiser65; 30th Jan 2008 at 20:33.
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in plain language...
- management team contains some "real clever" guys (and since LH will tell them how to make "their decisions".... muppets are cheaper, see last line!)
- payscale is to be "published soon", yet "please apply now"
-----
IMHO: obviously they are not trying to lure people in via real money or competitive T&Cs.
they just sit and wait if they get enough loco-people who are used to do it for less or don't care that much for the bucks as they are on a nice pension anyway and want to fly five more years from 60 to 65. or return to europe. or a blinded by the shine of the number 777 (by the way: 777 is kinds close to 666, isn't it?
)
reminds me of an ebay auction. except lowest bidder wins job.
and i think they will succeed.
after all, one of the magic key points in the whole show is to stay UNDER lufthansa cargo payment AS FAR AS possible. cos thats what outsourcing is about. saving money.
- payscale is to be "published soon", yet "please apply now"
-----
IMHO: obviously they are not trying to lure people in via real money or competitive T&Cs.
they just sit and wait if they get enough loco-people who are used to do it for less or don't care that much for the bucks as they are on a nice pension anyway and want to fly five more years from 60 to 65. or return to europe. or a blinded by the shine of the number 777 (by the way: 777 is kinds close to 666, isn't it?
)reminds me of an ebay auction. except lowest bidder wins job.
and i think they will succeed.
after all, one of the magic key points in the whole show is to stay UNDER lufthansa cargo payment AS FAR AS possible. cos thats what outsourcing is about. saving money.
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"We're looking for experienced pilots, but they don't need a 777 rating," says Papke. "For captains we need a minimum of 5,000h and for co-pilots 1,000h."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA. The new aviation reality...experienced pilots at 1000 hrs TT.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA. The new aviation reality...experienced pilots at 1000 hrs TT.
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Well I dont want to destroy your illusions but as the Dirctor Flight Ops,
is the former FOPH of LTU and quite a few well experienced LTU Cpts and FOs are available and willing to change, because of the situation with AB, there will be only a limited chance for foreign pilots, exept they come with a 777 rating.
is the former FOPH of LTU and quite a few well experienced LTU Cpts and FOs are available and willing to change, because of the situation with AB, there will be only a limited chance for foreign pilots, exept they come with a 777 rating.
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As agreed between the union(s) and Air Berlin ExCom, 1/5 of the entire fleet expansions will occur in favour of LTU. Hence, no cheap and easy "outsourcing" to the disadvantage of the employees like it had/has happened before with DBA.
So I guess quite a few are willing to make a change and others may come back from EY, but as you say, time will tell.
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off topic
remember there is an agreement also that no LTU pilots are allowed to join AB now (direct entry command)! so there goes a good chance for those guys... i mean the f/os! hopin' the best for them! i hear for now only 450 applications found to leipzig! i would have thought at least a thousand would try to get their foot into their doorsteps...
Also keep in mind that some retired LTU and LH capt might want to fly till 65 and make some extra money for their "small" pension
good night everyone.......
Also keep in mind that some retired LTU and LH capt might want to fly till 65 and make some extra money for their "small" pension
good night everyone.......
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It all will depends on the T&C offered. But rest assured even or especially due the deal between the German pilot's union and LTU as well as Air Berlin, a lot of the pilots at LTU are "not amused" by the management "style" adopted by Air Berlin.
There will be other German pilots currently in the sandpit, either former LTU pilots or others with a 777 TR, who might be interested to return back home for different reasons.
There might be also "older" guys who want to fly above 60. Getting older guys in and taking care of an well spread average age within the fleet is also an issue which might be of interest, as if you start with only DEC in their mid 40's there might be nearly no upgrades for about 20 years if the fleet size would not expand.
For a lot of non German's especially if you are older working in Germany and contributing to it's social security system might not be appealing. An option to base pilots off shore is not an option as it would be prpabbly not in line with the German law. So you will be taxed in Germany and you will have to pay your social contributions in Germany. A health insurance is mandatory and not cheap. The big drawback might be the pension.
The state pension system wont allow someone like me, I am in my late 30's, to retire at age 65 with the full pension, which is not much and would not even get close to what we earn as pilots. I would have to work up to 67 to be eligible for the full pension. However the pension is based on the years you and the employer contributed to the system. So, if you are let's say 45 and want to fly until 65 you have only 20 years, which in term is far away from being elegible for a full pension, as you miss years.
With these facts people have to take care of their private pesnion by different models, e.g. funds etc. to retain their social status after retirement. Well established companies offer supplementary pensions to fill the gap between the state pension and a certain level. But will a new company offer this? A question that might be answered if you get the T&C.
Just my 50 cents.
There will be other German pilots currently in the sandpit, either former LTU pilots or others with a 777 TR, who might be interested to return back home for different reasons.
There might be also "older" guys who want to fly above 60. Getting older guys in and taking care of an well spread average age within the fleet is also an issue which might be of interest, as if you start with only DEC in their mid 40's there might be nearly no upgrades for about 20 years if the fleet size would not expand.
For a lot of non German's especially if you are older working in Germany and contributing to it's social security system might not be appealing. An option to base pilots off shore is not an option as it would be prpabbly not in line with the German law. So you will be taxed in Germany and you will have to pay your social contributions in Germany. A health insurance is mandatory and not cheap. The big drawback might be the pension.
The state pension system wont allow someone like me, I am in my late 30's, to retire at age 65 with the full pension, which is not much and would not even get close to what we earn as pilots. I would have to work up to 67 to be eligible for the full pension. However the pension is based on the years you and the employer contributed to the system. So, if you are let's say 45 and want to fly until 65 you have only 20 years, which in term is far away from being elegible for a full pension, as you miss years.
With these facts people have to take care of their private pesnion by different models, e.g. funds etc. to retain their social status after retirement. Well established companies offer supplementary pensions to fill the gap between the state pension and a certain level. But will a new company offer this? A question that might be answered if you get the T&C.
Just my 50 cents.
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I agree entirely with the previous post. What one could add is the fact, that some companies e.g. LTU are indeed providing some sort of pension scheme. In this case the company contributions will increase the tax percentage you pay on your monthly salary (geldwerter Vorteil). Upon retirement you expect to reap the harvest... and surprise, surprise, you are double taxed on it! There are many other examples like that. When you're pumping gas you pay the V.A.T. on top of the fuel tax which the state has already imposed on it.
@ YP321: It is typically german, that you get to know these things only in a forum like this and not by other means. Thank you for the info.
remember there is an agreement also that no LTU pilots are allowed to join AB now (direct entry command)!