Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
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From: UK
Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
This thread is approaching close to 1000 previous posts and can be researched Here. To keep this topic manageable volume 2 can be continued on this thread.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 713
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From: 52N 20E
Bacon Rashers about to become PORK Scratchin's!
This does not look too good for you guys now. I think that the wise have already pulled the Black & Yellow handle early.
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com..._190107_ba.pdf
On a positive note, Easy are actively recruiting you guys to have a major dig at us. I think we will struggle severely this year to meet the commitments planned for the summer schedule. More so than in the previous nightmare years due to lack of crews and unrealistic planning /rostering and recruitment by other airlines elsewhere.
This is now becoming critical as we already have 146 crews trained up to fly the EMB195 but with the delays on 195 production I think we may have jumped the gun.
It will be interesting to see how many 195 trained crews go back on to the 146 until deliveries start again.
Word on the street is that the delays are significant.
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com..._190107_ba.pdf
On a positive note, Easy are actively recruiting you guys to have a major dig at us. I think we will struggle severely this year to meet the commitments planned for the summer schedule. More so than in the previous nightmare years due to lack of crews and unrealistic planning /rostering and recruitment by other airlines elsewhere.
This is now becoming critical as we already have 146 crews trained up to fly the EMB195 but with the delays on 195 production I think we may have jumped the gun.
It will be interesting to see how many 195 trained crews go back on to the 146 until deliveries start again.
Word on the street is that the delays are significant.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 95
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From: BHX
The handle
Smokie
How do you suggest that the link you have provided to the pension statement means the 'handle' is to be pulled? Certainly it is not good with regard to the pension but..............Rumour has it the deal is to be signed next week!
How do you suggest that the link you have provided to the pension statement means the 'handle' is to be pulled? Certainly it is not good with regard to the pension but..............Rumour has it the deal is to be signed next week!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 22
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From: UK
Its getting close for all of you Flybe/Bacon guys. Good Luck.
I know I have asked this before on the previous thread but if there is anyone out there who has any idea what the recruitment situation is at present I would be so grateful for a response. I have previously been retired and I am not flying at the moment but I hope to be on the list for a DEC as soon as possible now that I have a new licence/medical.
For what it is worth, I have been through a merger/buyout before and the rumours and lack of info turn to fear. All will get sorted. It may take time but this is not the first time it has happened. Dooooont worry.
Comments on my 'prospects' welcome. Ta.
I know I have asked this before on the previous thread but if there is anyone out there who has any idea what the recruitment situation is at present I would be so grateful for a response. I have previously been retired and I am not flying at the moment but I hope to be on the list for a DEC as soon as possible now that I have a new licence/medical.
For what it is worth, I have been through a merger/buyout before and the rumours and lack of info turn to fear. All will get sorted. It may take time but this is not the first time it has happened. Dooooont worry.
Comments on my 'prospects' welcome. Ta.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 587
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From: Planet Claire
Smokie
Glad to hear it. As a rasher, I view the prospect of working for Flybe with dread only.
Frankly, I'd rather they shut connect and paid us the redundancy money.
Flybe is a bit like going back to Loganair. Fun but !!!!.
Glad you're having fun tho.
When I pull into the car park for an early- Flybes pushin'
When I reach the car park after a late- Flybe's takin' off.
F*ck that!
btw. 5-2-5-2-5-2, 800 a year here,etc
Glad to hear it. As a rasher, I view the prospect of working for Flybe with dread only.
Frankly, I'd rather they shut connect and paid us the redundancy money.
Flybe is a bit like going back to Loganair. Fun but !!!!.
Glad you're having fun tho.
When I pull into the car park for an early- Flybes pushin'
When I reach the car park after a late- Flybe's takin' off.
F*ck that!
btw. 5-2-5-2-5-2, 800 a year here,etc
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 368
Likes: 21
From: North of the M4
No one is afraid of hard work at Bacon, but they sure don’t want to return to the dark old days of BRAL and its very worst when every two sector early picked up another two sectors on the day, lates were changed to earlies, earlies were changed to lates at the last minute and with an Ops Director who believed that he owned us 24 hrs a day and he could do whatever he liked with us. It was similar in Logan, but at least it was a small enough operation for the Ops staff to return favours.
Flybe is moving into a different league, its main competitors in the Loco area might work people hard, but at least they provide roster stability. Not only that, BA are working their shorthaul pilots up to the limits, but again, with an extremely stable roster.
If as their attitude suggest, Flybe are to continue with their current daily fire-fighting and bullying into compliance approach to rostering, it is going to be a disaster. We have been there, it’s not clever and it is not sustainable. The Bacon scheduling agreement is constantly rubbished by managers (note; not by those who actually work with it and have an understanding of rostering) yet it did not cause the downfall of Bacon (Evans and his cronies saw to that that).
I am sure the Bacon reps are willing to concede areas of the agreement which may not fit the Flybe model, but this agreement has been tried and tested. It creates lifestyle stability and it works. That’s why until now, Bacon tended to retain crews, and it probably explains why despite coming from similar backgrounds (Manx/ Bral v Jersey), the current experience level in Bacon is probably three times that in Flybe. JF needs that experience (if he wants to keep his insurance bill down).
Finally, does anyone know whether the Flybe manager who has been calling Bacon pilots and threatening them into compliance been hauled over the coals yet? He damn well should be and if that’s an indication of how Flybe middle managers behave and conduct IR, then we are in for a rocky ride.
This most recent event has been the last straw for most at Bacon who are trying to decide whether to give it a go or to jump. If JF and his directors are wondering why there are very few Bacon pilots left, he needs to look on his side of the fence very close to home.
Flybe is moving into a different league, its main competitors in the Loco area might work people hard, but at least they provide roster stability. Not only that, BA are working their shorthaul pilots up to the limits, but again, with an extremely stable roster.
If as their attitude suggest, Flybe are to continue with their current daily fire-fighting and bullying into compliance approach to rostering, it is going to be a disaster. We have been there, it’s not clever and it is not sustainable. The Bacon scheduling agreement is constantly rubbished by managers (note; not by those who actually work with it and have an understanding of rostering) yet it did not cause the downfall of Bacon (Evans and his cronies saw to that that).
I am sure the Bacon reps are willing to concede areas of the agreement which may not fit the Flybe model, but this agreement has been tried and tested. It creates lifestyle stability and it works. That’s why until now, Bacon tended to retain crews, and it probably explains why despite coming from similar backgrounds (Manx/ Bral v Jersey), the current experience level in Bacon is probably three times that in Flybe. JF needs that experience (if he wants to keep his insurance bill down).
Finally, does anyone know whether the Flybe manager who has been calling Bacon pilots and threatening them into compliance been hauled over the coals yet? He damn well should be and if that’s an indication of how Flybe middle managers behave and conduct IR, then we are in for a rocky ride.
This most recent event has been the last straw for most at Bacon who are trying to decide whether to give it a go or to jump. If JF and his directors are wondering why there are very few Bacon pilots left, he needs to look on his side of the fence very close to home.
stilljustanothernumber
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 624
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From: the night sky
lates were changed to earlies, earlies were changed to lates at the last minute and with an Ops Director who believed that he owned us 24 hrs a day and he could do whatever he liked with us.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 532
Likes: 2
From: UK
Finally, does anyone know whether the Flybe manager who has been calling Bacon pilots and threatening them into compliance been hauled over the coals yet? He damn well should be and if that’s an indication of how Flybe middle managers behave and conduct IR, then we are in for a rocky ride.
Last edited by RAFAT; 23rd January 2007 at 01:06. Reason: To change BRAL to BACE after Bluff's post below.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 266
Likes: 1
From: Your Worst Nightmare
Nope, he was from the other side of that fence but he was CitiExpress, another merger not made in heaven but we ALL gave that one a good go - same as we hope to give this one a good go as well
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 100
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From: Birmingham
Any news from BALPA?
Can anyone tell me what the situation is with BALPA over BACON takeover? Cabin Crew are being ballotted for acceptance, their TU reps seem to have moved Flybe somewhat, the T&C's are similar to those currently operated, though not as good?
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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From: uk
Maybe if we had a decent fleet, the airline would still be profitable
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 41
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From: YBBN
Don’t know whether BACON pilots have received ballot papers in the post yet? Asking you to vote on accepting or rejecting Flybe terms and conditions.
The ballot papers sent out to Engineering and Cabin Services are a disgrace, worthy of use in a third world dictatorship.
They have no box to cross when making your vote and wording and layout is ambiguous. I quote :
“Please place an X over the appropriate box below to indicate whether you are prepared to accept the new Flybe Engineering Terms contained in the enclosed document.”
Only there is NO box.
So if one puts a cross over the word NO, what could this mean?
YES? Precisely, so if it is not read carefully one easily risks voting the wrong way.
Got the picture?
An addressed envelope is provided. Of course NO STAMP is provided to ensure that the tight and apathetic do not return their papers.
Ballot papers are returned to BACON Towers HR and not to an independent body. Though now we have been assured that the count will be witnessed by the unions.
Seriously eroded T’s and C’s. A rigged ballot? If this is the best BACON and THE Nextgeneration airline can offer. What future do we have with these shysters?
Votes in by 31st Jan. A shame that the results and any of our concerns on this date will be overshadowed by the BA Cabin Crew industrial action
Good luck.
BACON Engineer.
The ballot papers sent out to Engineering and Cabin Services are a disgrace, worthy of use in a third world dictatorship.
They have no box to cross when making your vote and wording and layout is ambiguous. I quote :
“Please place an X over the appropriate box below to indicate whether you are prepared to accept the new Flybe Engineering Terms contained in the enclosed document.”
Only there is NO box.
So if one puts a cross over the word NO, what could this mean?
YES? Precisely, so if it is not read carefully one easily risks voting the wrong way.
Got the picture?
An addressed envelope is provided. Of course NO STAMP is provided to ensure that the tight and apathetic do not return their papers.
Ballot papers are returned to BACON Towers HR and not to an independent body. Though now we have been assured that the count will be witnessed by the unions.
Seriously eroded T’s and C’s. A rigged ballot? If this is the best BACON and THE Nextgeneration airline can offer. What future do we have with these shysters?
Votes in by 31st Jan. A shame that the results and any of our concerns on this date will be overshadowed by the BA Cabin Crew industrial action
Good luck.
BACON Engineer.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5
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From: world wide web
I gather that what is left of BACON management are getting concerned by the mass negativity regarding the ballot of (amongst others) the engineers and the cabin crew. Cabin crew managers at MAN today doing rounds of the crewroom saying there would probably have to be another ballot because "people don't understand the issues and are all voting NO". 
I haven't met one cabin crew or one engineer yet who has voted "yes".
Also pilots will only be balloted when BALPA is ready (and will definitely not be dictated to by the grand fromage).
I particularly liked the bit by Willie Walsh in Times today sprouting forth that of course all his regional services operated by BACON would be unaffected by the cabin crew strike next week. Ha - someone should point out to the press that he has already shafted and given away his BACON saviour.
I haven't met one cabin crew or one engineer yet who has voted "yes".Also pilots will only be balloted when BALPA is ready (and will definitely not be dictated to by the grand fromage).
I particularly liked the bit by Willie Walsh in Times today sprouting forth that of course all his regional services operated by BACON would be unaffected by the cabin crew strike next week. Ha - someone should point out to the press that he has already shafted and given away his BACON saviour.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9
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I voted NO even though its not a word i often use. Well i did once to young Carl - but he deserved it and the slapping. But why should i give my everything for the last 5 years then have it all taken away to fly some scabby airplanes and work harder than ever and have my life messed up again. 
love Jane
love Jane
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 41
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From: YBBN
If the deal goes through engineers will have to give up the following:
1 Loss of final salary pension
2 Loss of BA staff travel in retirement (10yrs service)
3 An increase in working week 40hrs from 37.5 (Flybe offer us pay differential of £532 for this while the extra hours actually equate to £2080)
4 A reduction in leave>1.3 days
5 Reduction in hourly rate therefore reducing OT rate
6 No payrise on basic only lump sum for X yrs not compounded
7 After 5 yrs service a bond will still apply
8 First aid pay will cease(£150)
9 Tooling allowance will cease
10 Loss of OT at double time(midnight to 6am)
11 Future redundancy will be statutory not x2
12 Relocation currently £8000 reduces to £5000
13 Loss of BA staff travel after 6 mths
14 Brymon non licensed staff will loose healthcare
15 Death in service from 3x salary to 2x
16 Flybe higher rate pension (10%) only applies to dual licensed Engineers
1 Loss of final salary pension
2 Loss of BA staff travel in retirement (10yrs service)
3 An increase in working week 40hrs from 37.5 (Flybe offer us pay differential of £532 for this while the extra hours actually equate to £2080)
4 A reduction in leave>1.3 days
5 Reduction in hourly rate therefore reducing OT rate
6 No payrise on basic only lump sum for X yrs not compounded
7 After 5 yrs service a bond will still apply
8 First aid pay will cease(£150)
9 Tooling allowance will cease
10 Loss of OT at double time(midnight to 6am)
11 Future redundancy will be statutory not x2
12 Relocation currently £8000 reduces to £5000
13 Loss of BA staff travel after 6 mths
14 Brymon non licensed staff will loose healthcare
15 Death in service from 3x salary to 2x
16 Flybe higher rate pension (10%) only applies to dual licensed Engineers