Whats Next!!
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Whats Next!!
Hi,
I'd like to know what the approximate cost would be to do a rating on a Cessna caravan or on a Beech 200. I would also like to know if it is going to be beneficial for me to do any of these ratings. I am just about to finish off my commercial license and instrument rating. I have approximately 130 hours on a Cessna 210 and over 200 hours overall.. I'd also like to know what anyone thinks about contract flying in africa and if i would be considered with such low hours, keeping in mind i have 130 odd hours on a turbo 210. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know what the approximate cost would be to do a rating on a Cessna caravan or on a Beech 200. I would also like to know if it is going to be beneficial for me to do any of these ratings. I am just about to finish off my commercial license and instrument rating. I have approximately 130 hours on a Cessna 210 and over 200 hours overall.. I'd also like to know what anyone thinks about contract flying in africa and if i would be considered with such low hours, keeping in mind i have 130 odd hours on a turbo 210. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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There are many recent threads covering this kind of topic. Go back a few pages in this forum and you should find such info as there is, and use the search function.
My 2c: Only do an expensive rating to get a specific job, ie if Solenta tell you that you WILL get a job if you do the Van rating then, maybe. Otherwise, you will end up having spent a lot of money, and still only have a CPL, with the barest minimum of hours.
You have 210 experience which is marketable in Nam, and may be of some use in Maun. Contract flying is a step up to bigger machinery, fun, but has a limited shelf life. Very limited if you have a family. Again, some browsing of this forum will tell you a lot. Read the 'You know you're in Africa when...' thread for a few things you'll laugh at now, but may not find so funny after a few years of contract...don't worry though, it all becomes funny again once the trauma has passed and you're drinking your coffee at F370 with the AP engaged...
Good luck.
My 2c: Only do an expensive rating to get a specific job, ie if Solenta tell you that you WILL get a job if you do the Van rating then, maybe. Otherwise, you will end up having spent a lot of money, and still only have a CPL, with the barest minimum of hours.
You have 210 experience which is marketable in Nam, and may be of some use in Maun. Contract flying is a step up to bigger machinery, fun, but has a limited shelf life. Very limited if you have a family. Again, some browsing of this forum will tell you a lot. Read the 'You know you're in Africa when...' thread for a few things you'll laugh at now, but may not find so funny after a few years of contract...don't worry though, it all becomes funny again once the trauma has passed and you're drinking your coffee at F370 with the AP engaged...
Good luck.
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Very good advise from Shrike. Don't go and spend a wad of cash on an expensive turbine rating, unless you have a job offer in writing. Rather keep the cash in the bank and then be able to tell a prospective employer that you can fund your own C208 or BE20 rating.
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Might catch a bit of slack for this but if you can B190 rating would be better. 200's on contract and charter as well are a bit through. (I flew them and I love them!).
Contract flying is an experience that all pilots should go through. Its a right of passage and the experience gained, you will not get on local charter, I dont really care what anyone says. Different weather, accents on the radio (if they even get it right), fields, customs and mentalities, levels of competence of different african ATC's etc. B190's EVERYWHERE on contract!
You can do the ratings privately which might be cheaper than through big companies. If you do them privately, do them with the right people.
Contract flying is an experience that all pilots should go through. Its a right of passage and the experience gained, you will not get on local charter, I dont really care what anyone says. Different weather, accents on the radio (if they even get it right), fields, customs and mentalities, levels of competence of different african ATC's etc. B190's EVERYWHERE on contract!
You can do the ratings privately which might be cheaper than through big companies. If you do them privately, do them with the right people.
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my 2c... i did a 208 rating with a reputable DE couple of days after my cpl test, freelanced as cojo all over on 208 charters and those couple of 208 helped me get a right seat on contract and very soon after a left seat! have never looked back! go for it! joburg is the place to be though... dont think much is happening down in slaapstad for low hour pilots.
your 210 hours will get you far in nam... thats a good machine to have experience on! my bit of 210 flying has teached me more than flying the 208!
good luck!
your 210 hours will get you far in nam... thats a good machine to have experience on! my bit of 210 flying has teached me more than flying the 208!
good luck!
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rating
I agree with Termightjim, the day of the 200 is just about over. If you want to fly on contract, the 1900 is a much better option. It will cost you around 25000 rand for the rating but dont forget you will still only have a few hours on the aircraft. A rating with NAC/43 will set you back around 65000 rand and you end up with 1 hour on type and some sim time ( the sim is a 200 not 1900 ). Other advice here was very good. Do not invest in the rating unless you have a job offer. And before you do that, try all the contract companies to see if they will give you the rating. There are still some who will do that and bond you.
Good luck
Good luck
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...try all the contract companies to see if they will give you the rating. There are still some who will do that and bond you...
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The time of cheap turbine ratings is over. If you want an initial turbine type rating, you must do it through an ATO such as 43 or Simulflight etc, if you are not holder of an ATPL - you must also get a HPA certificate, you need at least 6 hours flying time, of which 3 can be in a simulator and this does not include a 1.5 hrs checkride with a testing officer (DE).
So that is already 4.5 minimum: you will pay +/- R63000 just for the aircraft and this does not include the 3 hrs simulator or the groundschool. If CAA decides to make the 1900 a Multicrew - they might also require 25hrs MCC training.
So in the end it will cost you about R100000, if you do it properly these days. The CAA is monitoring this very closly at this time, which is good as it ensures the candidates can do the job on a sound foundation. Downside is: it just becomes a lot more expensive.
Read Part 61 what the requirments are, for your own good. What I write here comes from personal experience.
I would only invest in the rating, if you have more hours to back yourself up with and a job in the pipeline. With your kind of hours - just to risky, save up some cash and do it when you need it. Chances are good, the a company will bond you and you can keep your money in the bank.
So that is already 4.5 minimum: you will pay +/- R63000 just for the aircraft and this does not include the 3 hrs simulator or the groundschool. If CAA decides to make the 1900 a Multicrew - they might also require 25hrs MCC training.
So in the end it will cost you about R100000, if you do it properly these days. The CAA is monitoring this very closly at this time, which is good as it ensures the candidates can do the job on a sound foundation. Downside is: it just becomes a lot more expensive.
Read Part 61 what the requirments are, for your own good. What I write here comes from personal experience.
I would only invest in the rating, if you have more hours to back yourself up with and a job in the pipeline. With your kind of hours - just to risky, save up some cash and do it when you need it. Chances are good, the a company will bond you and you can keep your money in the bank.
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Hello Shrike
Sorry - can't cut 'n paste from the pdf's on CAA's website. Go to the website, under Licensing and Examinations, there is a link to Regulations. Then go to Subpart 13 and read SACATS-FCL 61 - 13 and following. Was copied analog from the JAA regulations for type ratings. These regulations have been in force from Jan2008.
I went in to CAA yesterday to check up and make sure. One of the things I did not have was the HPA certifacte. I spoke to the testing standards officer, he was very helpful in explaining what needs to be done for initial type ratings. If you go and do any training, make shure that whoever you are doing the rating with knows exactly what is required and that the course has been approved by the SACAA . Every ATO must have a syllabus which is approved by the SACAA! As far as I have been told, the HPA training and certificate is part of 43's groundschool programm and has therefore been approved by SACAA if you have completed the whole course. Training or getting a type rating without an ATO which has been specifically approved to do the course is no longer an option. There are many ATOs (e.g. operator/charter companies and even DE's with their own ATO) out there and all of them have differences and that is what makes it very confusing. Another Example: If an ATO has been approved of providing a groundschool and trainging on the aircraft, but has not been approved to provide simulator training - then you will now have to do 7.5 hrs on the aircraft itself.
Be aware that all of the above applys to pilots who want to get their initial Turbine Rating or Type Ratings by Name in general. The HPA certificate is a once off thing - once you have a HPA aircraft on your license, you will not need it again. If you have all of your ATP theory exams, this also includes HPA syllabus and therefor you would be exempt.
Sorry - can't cut 'n paste from the pdf's on CAA's website. Go to the website, under Licensing and Examinations, there is a link to Regulations. Then go to Subpart 13 and read SACATS-FCL 61 - 13 and following. Was copied analog from the JAA regulations for type ratings. These regulations have been in force from Jan2008.
I went in to CAA yesterday to check up and make sure. One of the things I did not have was the HPA certifacte. I spoke to the testing standards officer, he was very helpful in explaining what needs to be done for initial type ratings. If you go and do any training, make shure that whoever you are doing the rating with knows exactly what is required and that the course has been approved by the SACAA . Every ATO must have a syllabus which is approved by the SACAA! As far as I have been told, the HPA training and certificate is part of 43's groundschool programm and has therefore been approved by SACAA if you have completed the whole course. Training or getting a type rating without an ATO which has been specifically approved to do the course is no longer an option. There are many ATOs (e.g. operator/charter companies and even DE's with their own ATO) out there and all of them have differences and that is what makes it very confusing. Another Example: If an ATO has been approved of providing a groundschool and trainging on the aircraft, but has not been approved to provide simulator training - then you will now have to do 7.5 hrs on the aircraft itself.
Be aware that all of the above applys to pilots who want to get their initial Turbine Rating or Type Ratings by Name in general. The HPA certificate is a once off thing - once you have a HPA aircraft on your license, you will not need it again. If you have all of your ATP theory exams, this also includes HPA syllabus and therefor you would be exempt.
Last edited by Propellerpilot; 24th Jul 2008 at 08:19.
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Hi Prop Pilot,
What an informative post, great!
I am still trying to catch up on all the implications of Part 61. However, I fully understand and support the rationale behind the higher training standards imposed, but with the price of a "proper" type rating sky rocketing like this, I am afraid the temptation will be all the greater for unscrupulous operators to cut corners but still rip off students. A particular pet hate of mine is “seat swapping” on a type rating, i.e. steep turn for you, one for you, one for you, done!
And the high turnover rate currently prevailing in the contract sector only adds to the strain. Interesting times, indeed!
What an informative post, great!
I am still trying to catch up on all the implications of Part 61. However, I fully understand and support the rationale behind the higher training standards imposed, but with the price of a "proper" type rating sky rocketing like this, I am afraid the temptation will be all the greater for unscrupulous operators to cut corners but still rip off students. A particular pet hate of mine is “seat swapping” on a type rating, i.e. steep turn for you, one for you, one for you, done!
And the high turnover rate currently prevailing in the contract sector only adds to the strain. Interesting times, indeed!
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Ah, High Performance Aeroplane...thanks for that, I should have looked myself. It's basically gunning exactly for this whole CPL/ATP on a 1900 type aircraft, ie. CPL's have not been tested on turbine theory, high alt/high speed flight etc.
Quote of the relevant bit:
Most helpful, thank you Prop Pilot!
It also seems to clear up, to a degree, what the CAA are aiming for.
Quote of the relevant bit:
Originally Posted by CAA!
2 High Performance Aeroplane (HPA) Training Course of additional theoretical
knowledge training for a class or type rating for high performance single-pilot
aeroplane and warbird type endorsements.
2.1 A number of aeroplanes certificated for single pilot operation have similar
performances, systems and navigation capabilities to those more usually
associated with multi-pilot types of aeroplanes, and regularly operate within the
same airspace. The level of knowledge required to operate safely in this
environment is not part of, or not included to the necessary depth of knowledge
in the training syllabi for the PPL, CPL or IR(A) but these licence holders may fly
as pilot-in-command of such aeroplanes.
SA CATS-FCL 61 CLASS & TYPE RATINGS Page TS 61.13 - 3
17 February 2008
2.2 The aim of the theoretical knowledge course is to provide the applicant with
sufficient knowledge of those aspects of the operation of aeroplanes capable of
operating at high speeds and altitudes, and the aircraft systems necessary for
such operation.
2.3 The holder of an ATPL(A) issued by a contracting state or a pass in the
theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level is credited with meeting the
requirement of Regulation 61.13.4(3).
2.4 A pass in any theoretical knowledge subjects as part of the HPA course will not
be credited against meeting future theoretical examination requirements for issue
of a CPL(A), IR(A) or ATPL(A).
knowledge training for a class or type rating for high performance single-pilot
aeroplane and warbird type endorsements.
2.1 A number of aeroplanes certificated for single pilot operation have similar
performances, systems and navigation capabilities to those more usually
associated with multi-pilot types of aeroplanes, and regularly operate within the
same airspace. The level of knowledge required to operate safely in this
environment is not part of, or not included to the necessary depth of knowledge
in the training syllabi for the PPL, CPL or IR(A) but these licence holders may fly
as pilot-in-command of such aeroplanes.
SA CATS-FCL 61 CLASS & TYPE RATINGS Page TS 61.13 - 3
17 February 2008
2.2 The aim of the theoretical knowledge course is to provide the applicant with
sufficient knowledge of those aspects of the operation of aeroplanes capable of
operating at high speeds and altitudes, and the aircraft systems necessary for
such operation.
2.3 The holder of an ATPL(A) issued by a contracting state or a pass in the
theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level is credited with meeting the
requirement of Regulation 61.13.4(3).
2.4 A pass in any theoretical knowledge subjects as part of the HPA course will not
be credited against meeting future theoretical examination requirements for issue
of a CPL(A), IR(A) or ATPL(A).
It also seems to clear up, to a degree, what the CAA are aiming for.
